Use MAP fuel tables in "AFM Hybrid" cals

ash_rage · 3rd November 2011, 16:55

Hondata have released FPM Version 1.1.9.4:

Downloads

Hondata • View topic - FlashProManager V1.1.9.4 (beta)

Some nice new features in here.

The main one most the owners on this forum should be concerned with is newly added option "Use MAP fuel tables".

This means their is no real need to run the MAP/Race Calibration anymore on my car. The MAP/Race Calibration is actually the FD2 ROM, which is why none of the gauges etc work right. Now Hondata have implemented the MAP tuning fuel tables in the FN2 AFM ROM. So you can keep the AFM sensor for the gauges, and use the MAP (speed density) fuel tables for fueling, and ALL your gauges/lights on dash should work.

So AFM cals can be "hybrid" and can benefit from using the MAP sensor for fueling whilst the dash fully works.

If your running an old AFM cal but would like the benefits that fueling via the MAP sensor brings you should only need to have the MAP portion retuned for fueling.

I can't see any real reason now to run the Race Calibration on my car, yes their are a few options missing but considering the "AFM Hybrid" cal now houses fueling via MAP and other functionality that previously only existed in Race cals it seems to be the best solution for my car now.

Hondata seem to have been very busy focusing on FN2 related stuff lately, big thanks to them.

I'll test my car in a few days on an "AFM Hybrid" cal. This is still beta so I expect it might have a few issues. If it does I'll just revert back to my MAP cal until Hondata address the issues.

ash_rage · 3rd November 2011, 22:16

Just been doing some logs, nothing seems to be broken so far.

Wish AFM cals had fuel overrun parameters

DPG87 · 3rd November 2011, 23:13

Good write up Ash very informative, was always a hindrance to me with my plan for charging this will make a big difference

stoney · 3rd November 2011, 23:14

wheres the Map fuel tables Ash

I posted this up last night on the other thread but haven't played with it

Just saw the checkbox. DOH

ash_rage · 3rd November 2011, 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by DPG87

Good write up Ash very informative, was always a hindrance to me with my plan for charging this will make a big difference

Yeah, Derek @ Hondata has listened and said he will add the overun options on the next release

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoney

wheres the Map fuel tables Ash

I posted this up last night on the other thread but haven't played with it

Just saw the checkbox. DOH

Yeah check box, it appears the logic differs to the MAP cals fueling, low cam out of boost seems the same but high cam and in boost is different and runs very rich using the fueling from my MAP cal in this option. What I am getting at stoney is you cant just copy the values from the MAP cal to the AFM cal, the logic differs.

stoney · 4th November 2011, 00:25

yea i read over on FPT about that, Im not switching over just yet mate, I'll sit this one out for a while lol

Weird how the logic has changed to incorporate this.

Oil light ok ?

ash_rage · 4th November 2011, 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoney

yea i read over on FPT about that, Im not switching over just yet mate, I'll sit this one out for a while lol

Weird how the logic has changed to incorporate this.

Oil light ok ?

oil light is nice and bright. as is all the other lights.

makes sense when you think about it, different ecu

yeah i normally steer clear for a while on new releases but lately curiosity has got to me lol

stoney · 4th November 2011, 00:46

Think ill wait until I need a remap

stoney · 4th November 2011, 00:55

PS Ash do the revs hang and what is ign.. Retard when cold like. Can you kill it?

ash_rage · 4th November 2011, 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoney

PS Ash do the revs hang and what is ign.. Retard when cold like. Can you kill it?

no difference really, afm cals now have IAT knock control like map cals have.

My AFM cal is finished now, took 4 revisions! nice and quick! only negative from using a afm cal is fuel overrun is engaging too soon after throttle release, when derek adds the overrun parameters this can be resolved.

summ0004 · 5th November 2011, 13:58

Looks like good stuff but think I will wait and make sure all the guineapigs test it fully first.

Will just keep using my standard AFM cal for now as it seems to be pretty much up to the job for my car.

ash_rage · 5th November 2011, 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by summ0004

Looks like good stuff but think I will wait and make sure all the guineapigs test it fully first.

Will just keep using my standard AFM cal for now as it seems to be pretty much up to the job for my car.

Hondata have implemented the fuel overrun parameters already as requested version 1.1.9.5 is available now.

Will update the thread after a week or two if everything is still ok

nunoctr · 7th November 2011, 16:11

I ash. Thanks for using this hybrid first.
What is the feeling of the new cal? Like a AFM or like a Map cal?
the biggest difference for me when using a map cal is the feeling of the car (not more power).
If the feeling of this new hybrid is like the AFM i will continue to use my map cal

ash_rage · 8th November 2011, 01:15

Intially nuno it felt not as good, as coming off throttle felt jerky.

Now Hondata have put the fuel overrun parameters in and its no longer the default 10ms, its much better. In fact I'd say it feels exactly like a MAP cal.

VitViper · 13th November 2011, 14:28

Keep in mind the AFM cals are still missing a few things:

- Radiator fan temp control
- Overrun manifold pressure and rpm cut/recover parameters (very useful on some cars)
- 1st gear throttle dampening
- VTEC coolant & min speed engagement
- Warm up ignition retard

Nothing that's a deal breaker for people that want to run AFM cals with the benefits of speed density fueling. Although it isn't a direct copy & paste if you already have a MAP cal, it did take a good amount of adjusting for Ash's cal, particularly where it came to high cam boost fueling.

nunoctr · 14th November 2011, 01:42

i made my hybrid cal last night.

The car was running very rich at wot so i had to pull about 10% of fuel.

you can't use the old values from a NA Map calibration as the fuel tables are divided in different cam angels. For example now don't exist the 50º cam angle fuel table.

i made this with live tuning so locked the 0º, 10º, 20º, 30º and 40º and tuned every cam angle in about 2 h.

don't know why the car using "less" fuel and lower duty cicle than before.

VitViper · 14th November 2011, 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by nunoctr

i made my hybrid cal last night.

The car was running very rich at wot so i had to pull about 10% of fuel.

you can't use the old values from a NA Map calibration as the fuel tables are divided in different cam angels. For example now don't exist the 50º cam angle fuel table.

i made this with live tuning so locked the 0º, 10º, 20º, 30º and 40º and tuned every cam angle in about 2 h.

don't know why the car using "less" fuel and lower duty cicle than before.

Ash's cal has 50* cam angle, so it was all pretty much plug & play

nunoctr · 14th November 2011, 01:52

yes, i think you started with the base AFM forced induction calibration that have different cam angle tables. Using NA they are different so i had to use my old ignition AFM tables (0º, 10º, 20º, 30º, 40º) and tune all the fuel tables. Almost a new cal. I love live tuning for this.

allagios · Yesterday, 18:31

1.5 year since last post here,are there any more infos for these AFM Hybrid calibrations?

nunoctr · Yesterday, 23:27

i used it since they were out. Made by me.
Now with the rotrex i use a map (race) tune made by vit.

They are as good (or better) than the map cals.
It's an maf cal with fuel tuned via map (the maf is off)
Every thing works with this, even the vtec lights.

But you can't copy 100% the fuel tables from a map cal to a hybrid cal. The logic is a bit diferent, so you need to tune it after.

The only thing I didn't like 100% was the fuel cut off. It's a litle more agressive than the map cal when you lift off the throtle.

And the map cal have more tables. Like compensation tables.

But in the future i will run again with a hybrid because hondata thinks this is the only way to go on street car.

3rd November 2011, 16:55	#1 (permalink)
ash_rage Supporter Car: CTR GT Join Date: 14th January 2010 Location: London and Essex Posts: 6,436 Thanks given: 702 Thanked 558 Times in 467 Posts iTrader: (21)	Use MAP fuel tables in "AFM Hybrid" cals Hondata have released FPM Version 1.1.9.4: Downloads Hondata • View topic - FlashProManager V1.1.9.4 (beta) Some nice new features in here. The main one most the owners on this forum should be concerned with is newly added option "Use MAP fuel tables". This means their is no real need to run the MAP/Race Calibration anymore on my car. The MAP/Race Calibration is actually the FD2 ROM, which is why none of the gauges etc work right. Now Hondata have implemented the MAP tuning fuel tables in the FN2 AFM ROM. So you can keep the AFM sensor for the gauges, and use the MAP (speed density) fuel tables for fueling, and ALL your gauges/lights on dash should work. So AFM cals can be "hybrid" and can benefit from using the MAP sensor for fueling whilst the dash fully works. If your running an old AFM cal but would like the benefits that fueling via the MAP sensor brings you should only need to have the MAP portion retuned for fueling. I can't see any real reason now to run the Race Calibration on my car, yes their are a few options missing but considering the "AFM Hybrid" cal now houses fueling via MAP and other functionality that previously only existed in Race cals it seems to be the best solution for my car now. Hondata seem to have been very busy focusing on FN2 related stuff lately, big thanks to them. I'll test my car in a few days on an "AFM Hybrid" cal. This is still beta so I expect it might have a few issues. If it does I'll just revert back to my MAP cal until Hondata address the issues. Last edited by ash_rage; 3rd November 2011 at 18:25.

3rd November 2011, 23:14	#4 (permalink)
stoney Supporter Car: 2007 FN2 GT Join Date: 24th March 2010 Location: lisburn Posts: 7,204 Thanks given: 160 Thanked 1,083 Times in 918 Posts iTrader: (9)	wheres the Map fuel tables Ash I posted this up last night on the other thread but haven't played with it Just saw the checkbox. DOH Last edited by stoney; 3rd November 2011 at 23:19.

8th November 2011, 01:15	#14 (permalink)
ash_rage Supporter Thread starter Car: CTR GT Join Date: 14th January 2010 Location: London and Essex Posts: 6,436 Thanks given: 702 Thanked 558 Times in 467 Posts iTrader: (21)	Intially nuno it felt not as good, as coming off throttle felt jerky. Now Hondata have put the fuel overrun parameters in and its no longer the default 10ms, its much better. In fact I'd say it feels exactly like a MAP cal. Last edited by ash_rage; 8th November 2011 at 01:18.

LinkBacks (?) LinkBack to this Thread: http://www.civinfo.com/forum/flashpro/65120-use-map-fuel-tables-afm-hybrid-cals.html
Posted By	For	Type	Date
Hondata • View topic - Afm with map fuel jerk off the throttle	This thread	Refback	10th July 2012 13:41
Flashpro delivered! - Page 6 - Honda CRZ Forum: Honda CR-Z Hybrid Car Forums	This thread	Refback	20th December 2011 17:55
Flashpro delivered! - Page 5 - Honda CRZ Forum: Honda CR-Z Hybrid Car Forums	This thread	Refback	20th December 2011 07:52

Similar Threads for: Use MAP fuel tables in "AFM Hybrid" cals
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Damage Rain in Petrol Tank: advised to use "Dry Fuel"???	jameseh	Bugs, faults and irritations	11	18th July 2011 19:27
"Type S" side decals and "Type S" rear badge	jeremiah	Items wanted	13	20th January 2011 02:33
Squeaks How "loose" is the fuel cap on a CTR as standard?	JB75	Bugs, faults and irritations	5	25th June 2010 15:08
NEW! Genuine Honda "Thunder" Type-R/S 18" wheels!	carnivorous	Items for sale	20	28th February 2010 19:25
Hybrid with 18" or 19" wheels?	tomas72	Hybrid	8	21st April 2009 14:54

3rd November 2011, 22:16	#2 (permalink)
ash_rage Supporter Thread starter Car: CTR GT Join Date: 14th January 2010 Location: London and Essex Posts: 6,436 Thanks given: 702 Thanked 558 Times in 467 Posts iTrader: (21)	Just been doing some logs, nothing seems to be broken so far. Wish AFM cals had fuel overrun parameters

3rd November 2011, 23:13	#3 (permalink)
DPG87 Aye Aye.... Car: 2009 CTR, Milano Join Date: 1st July 2009 Location: Glasgow Posts: 6,205 Thanks given: 482 Thanked 767 Times in 721 Posts iTrader: (9)	Good write up Ash very informative, was always a hindrance to me with my plan for charging this will make a big difference

4th November 2011, 00:25	#6 (permalink)
stoney Supporter Car: 2007 FN2 GT Join Date: 24th March 2010 Location: lisburn Posts: 7,204 Thanks given: 160 Thanked 1,083 Times in 918 Posts iTrader: (9)	yea i read over on FPT about that, Im not switching over just yet mate, I'll sit this one out for a while lol Weird how the logic has changed to incorporate this. Oil light ok ?

4th November 2011, 00:46	#8 (permalink)
stoney Supporter Car: 2007 FN2 GT Join Date: 24th March 2010 Location: lisburn Posts: 7,204 Thanks given: 160 Thanked 1,083 Times in 918 Posts iTrader: (9)	Think ill wait until I need a remap

4th November 2011, 00:55	#9 (permalink)
stoney Supporter Car: 2007 FN2 GT Join Date: 24th March 2010 Location: lisburn Posts: 7,204 Thanks given: 160 Thanked 1,083 Times in 918 Posts iTrader: (9)	PS Ash do the revs hang and what is ign.. Retard when cold like. Can you kill it?

5th November 2011, 13:58	#11 (permalink)
summ0004 Car: 2008 Milano Red CTR Join Date: 1st August 2010 Location: uk Posts: 616 Thanks given: 14 Thanked 31 Times in 29 Posts iTrader: (0)	Looks like good stuff but think I will wait and make sure all the guineapigs test it fully first. Will just keep using my standard AFM cal for now as it seems to be pretty much up to the job for my car.

7th November 2011, 16:11	#13 (permalink)
nunoctr Join Date: 26th May 2008 Location: portugal - Benfica Posts: 1,820 Thanks given: 72 Thanked 197 Times in 173 Posts iTrader: (0)	I ash. Thanks for using this hybrid first. What is the feeling of the new cal? Like a AFM or like a Map cal? the biggest difference for me when using a map cal is the feeling of the car (not more power). If the feeling of this new hybrid is like the AFM i will continue to use my map cal

13th November 2011, 14:28	#15 (permalink)
VitViper Banned Car: 2008 NHBP FG2 Join Date: 12th May 2011 Location: USA Posts: 127 Thanks given: 1 Thanked 19 Times in 15 Posts iTrader: (0)	Keep in mind the AFM cals are still missing a few things: - Radiator fan temp control - Overrun manifold pressure and rpm cut/recover parameters (very useful on some cars) - 1st gear throttle dampening - VTEC coolant & min speed engagement - Warm up ignition retard Nothing that's a deal breaker for people that want to run AFM cals with the benefits of speed density fueling. Although it isn't a direct copy & paste if you already have a MAP cal, it did take a good amount of adjusting for Ash's cal, particularly where it came to high cam boost fueling.

14th November 2011, 01:42	#16 (permalink)
nunoctr Join Date: 26th May 2008 Location: portugal - Benfica Posts: 1,820 Thanks given: 72 Thanked 197 Times in 173 Posts iTrader: (0)	i made my hybrid cal last night. The car was running very rich at wot so i had to pull about 10% of fuel. you can't use the old values from a NA Map calibration as the fuel tables are divided in different cam angels. For example now don't exist the 50º cam angle fuel table. i made this with live tuning so locked the 0º, 10º, 20º, 30º and 40º and tuned every cam angle in about 2 h. don't know why the car using "less" fuel and lower duty cicle than before.

14th November 2011, 01:52	#18 (permalink)
nunoctr Join Date: 26th May 2008 Location: portugal - Benfica Posts: 1,820 Thanks given: 72 Thanked 197 Times in 173 Posts iTrader: (0)	yes, i think you started with the base AFM forced induction calibration that have different cam angle tables. Using NA they are different so i had to use my old ignition AFM tables (0º, 10º, 20º, 30º, 40º) and tune all the fuel tables. Almost a new cal. I love live tuning for this.

Yesterday, 18:31	#19 (permalink)
allagios Supporter Car: 2009 CTR GT , Silver Join Date: 18th April 2009 Location: Athens,GR Posts: 2,219 Thanks given: 112 Thanked 264 Times in 179 Posts iTrader: (18)	1.5 year since last post here,are there any more infos for these AFM Hybrid calibrations?

Yesterday, 23:27	#20 (permalink)
nunoctr Join Date: 26th May 2008 Location: portugal - Benfica Posts: 1,820 Thanks given: 72 Thanked 197 Times in 173 Posts iTrader: (0)	i used it since they were out. Made by me. Now with the rotrex i use a map (race) tune made by vit. They are as good (or better) than the map cals. It's an maf cal with fuel tuned via map (the maf is off) Every thing works with this, even the vtec lights. But you can't copy 100% the fuel tables from a map cal to a hybrid cal. The logic is a bit diferent, so you need to tune it after. The only thing I didn't like 100% was the fuel cut off. It's a litle more agressive than the map cal when you lift off the throtle. And the map cal have more tables. Like compensation tables. But in the future i will run again with a hybrid because hondata thinks this is the only way to go on street car.