Flashpro On stock car

[Smithy1988]

Hi guys.

What improvement in mpg torque and bhp can you expect to see by purchasing a flashpro and getting a custom map done on a completely standard car.

I know that people usually get a map once they have an intake and exhaust system and or other mods.

Is there much benefit in getting a custom map done with no modifications or would the standard group n map give the same gains.

I suppose im trying to see how much difference having flashpro on a car with say intake and exhaust is, in comparison to a stock car with flashpro.
How restricitve are the stock items?

Thanks

[RickHondaR]

I am also interested in this one as if we was to have this no other mods would follow.

[Staffs Deltic]

Unless someone has put a standard car on the rollers 1st without the group N map and then again with a group N map loaded you are going to struggle to find an exact answer. All I can say is that with the group N loaded the car felt a lot more responsive and pick up was more aggressive when VTEC came in.

As for mpg, I can't say I noticed any difference (some say it runs a bit rich) until I had my car set up properly with my mods; then I saw a couple of mpg improvement on a run.

A stock exhaust is not that restrictive and as such replacing it won't give much apart from a better sound. The intake can make some improvement but don't expect it to set the world on fire.

Have a look at my mods thread and look at the graph I had done. It shows my car totally standard and then mapped for the parts I had fitted. The figures do not do the remap justice, the car is an animal now.

Would I have flashpro on its own = YES (totally transforms a standard car)

Would I have a car remapped with just an exhaust & intake = YES (but don't expect a major difference feel wise over the group N).

Hope that helps.

[Smithy1988]

Originally Posted by Staffs Deltic

Unless someone has put a standard car on the rollers 1st without the group N map and then again with a group N map loaded you are going to struggle to find an exact answer. All I can say is that with the group N loaded the car felt a lot more responsive and pick up was more aggressive when VTEC came in.

As for mpg, I can't say I noticed any difference (some say it runs a bit rich) until I had my car set up properly with my mods; then I saw a couple of mpg improvement on a run.

A stock exhaust is not that restrictive and as such replacing it won't give much apart from a better sound. The intake can make some improvement but don't expect it to set the world on fire.

Have a look at my mods thread and look at the graph I had done. It shows my car totally standard and then mapped for the parts I had fitted. The figures do not do the remap justice, the car is an animal now.

Would I have flashpro on its own = YES (totally transforms a standard car)

Would I have a car remapped with just an exhaust & intake = YES (but don't expect a major difference feel wise over the group N).

Hope that helps.

That does help yes.
Im trying to work out if an exhaust and intake is really worth the money, when you can run flashpro without any mods and still get 90% of the benefits. I understand it gets more worthwhile as more and mods are added as there always tends to be a bottleneck, but unless serious NA modding is planned and your happy enough with the sound from the stock items then its not 100% neccessary.

My next question is, is it worthwhile getting a custom tune and flashpro done on a stock car or just run the group n map. Obviously the lower vtec will be in place but will the power and torque be any smoother with a custom map over a group n?

Thanks

[Staffs Deltic]

Originally Posted by Smithy1988

That does help yes.
Im trying to work out if an exhaust and intake is really worth the money, when you can run flashpro without any mods and still get 90% of the benefits. I understand it gets more worthwhile as more and mods are added as there always tends to be a bottleneck, but unless serious NA modding is planned and your happy enough with the sound from the stock items then its not 100% neccessary.

My next question is, is it worthwhile getting a custom tune and flashpro done on a stock car or just run the group n map. Obviously the lower vtec will be in place but will the power and torque be any smoother with a custom map over a group n?

Thanks

TBH I would just run the group N because I can't see as it would make that much difference, but it is personal preference. I am sure others would say get it custom tuned. Again its a case of, can someone on here demonstrate via a rolling road graph the difference between group N on its own and a custom map. then and only then can you decide what suits your needs best.

[nunoctr]

this an old movie of a ctr ep3 with and without hondata reflash. Stock car with only exhaust. See the difference on the same road and same day. On a Fn2 it's probbaly the same:

Tagus - CTR " Bikos " vs ITR " Vivi " - YouTube

Tagus - CTR " Bikos " vs ITR " Vivi " - YouTube

[ash_rage]

I had my car remapped when it was stock. Decent gains midrange if i recall correctly. Mpg had no noticeable improvements. Ill dig out my dyno graph comparision later when i get home. Feels like years ago now!

[Smithy1988]

Originally Posted by Staffs Deltic

TBH I would just run the group N because I can't see as it would make that much difference, but it is personal preference. I am sure others would say get it custom tuned. Again its a case of, can someone on here demonstrate via a rolling road graph the difference between group N on its own and a custom map. then and only then can you decide what suits your needs best.

Yea that would be useful, and thanks nuno for the video. Certainly seems to have more pull, i suppose from switching to the vtec cam earlier.

Will there be any problems with dash lights coming on once flash pro has been installed?

[Smithy1988]

Originally Posted by ash_rage

I had my car remapped when it was stock. Decent gains midrange if i recall correctly. Mpg had no noticeable improvements. Ill dig out my dyno graph comparision later when i get home. Feels like years ago now!

That would be good thanks Ash. Did you go for a custom tune on the stock car or just run the group n?

[Foulsmell]

I have a custom map with Flashpro on stock car.

Most noticeable feature is the vtec lowered to 3700 and redline now at 8600 to allow 60mph to be reached in 2nd gear ( on the speedo at least ).

Increases peak bhp by 1 but all the gains are mid range. The noise of vtec at lower revs is better and very addictive so because of that the 1-2 mpg increase will be cancelled out.

Get it done its great. I believe that custom maps look after the car better as everything is spot on and not just a make do with because it's cheaper. IMO.

Intake will give approx 6 bhp top end. Get it with a racing manifold it will give 10 ish top end but 25 mid range and same increase in torque which is very noticeable.( my next mods)

No issues with dash lights on Flashpro.

[ash_rage]

Originally Posted by Smithy1988

That would be good thanks Ash. Did you go for a custom tune on the stock car or just run the group n?

Custom map buddy

[blue harbour]

Originally Posted by Smithy1988

Will there be any problems with dash lights coming on once flash pro has been installed?

This is something i've been sort of wondering myself too, Doesn't adding Flashpro cause certain things to stop working or working properly!? (got somet in my head about fuel gauge stops working or somet like that) - but i could be barking up the wrong tree too!

For me if using Flashpro meant loosing ANY functionality at all, it'd be a big NO NO for me (got a fully loaded GT!)& there's something that i seem to recall about loosing some functionality from using Flashpro!

Must admit i'd sort of like to do a couple of subtle mods to my CTR to pep it up a little - certainly mid range/torque related boosts, but if i'm honest i don't want raspy/boomy exhausts or stupidly loud induction roar or anything like that (been there/done that got the T shirt several times over from previous cars!), but i would like to give the car just a bit more pep!, but NOT at the cost of widgets &/or gadgets etc stopping working properly!

If i could crack say 220bhp and add a decent dose of mid range clout i'd be happy enough at that, especially if it was achievable whilst keeping noise levels pretty much to O.e levels too- best o both worlds!!!

[ash_rage]

If its a MAF cal then everything continues to work. Only the Race cals stop things working

[Staffs Deltic]

There were issues with MAP tuning but these have been ironed out. The only thing that doesn't work on mine is the rev lights.

[Smithy1988]

Originally Posted by blue harbour

This is something i've been sort of wondering myself too, Doesn't adding Flashpro cause certain things to stop working or working properly!? (got somet in my head about fuel gauge stops working or somet like that) - but i could be barking up the wrong tree too!

For me if using Flashpro meant loosing ANY functionality at all, it'd be a big NO NO for me (got a fully loaded GT!)& there's something that i seem to recall about loosing some functionality from using Flashpro!

Must admit i'd sort of like to do a couple of subtle mods to my CTR to pep it up a little - certainly mid range/torque related boosts, but if i'm honest i don't want raspy/boomy exhausts or stupidly loud induction roar or anything like that (been there/done that got the T shirt several times over from previous cars!), but i would like to give the car just a bit more pep!, but NOT at the cost of widgets &/or gadgets etc stopping working properly!

If i could crack say 220bhp and add a decent dose of mid range clout i'd be happy enough at that, especially if it was achievable whilst keeping noise levels pretty much to O.e levels too- best o both worlds!!!

Yep along the same lines as me.

I would say that you wont get to 220bhp without some engine mods. I gather that the flash pro just gives a lot more mid range and not really any more peak power. But still potentially worth doing just for that

[blue harbour]

Originally Posted by ash_rage

If its a MAF cal then everything continues to work. Only the Race cals stop things working

Can you elaborate on what the difference is between the two kinds please (if you know!)

Originally Posted by Staffs Deltic

There were issues with MAP tuning but these have been ironed out. The only thing that doesn't work on mine is the rev lights.

D'ya know - call me overly fussy but that would be enough to make think twice!

Said this before but it's a real shame that Honda didn't use an ECU like the Siemens units that were fitted to the MGZS180's (of which i had two btw!), as these were "self learning" (to a point) and had enough range in them to allow some slight modifications and the car would still run within safe parameters on the standard maps on standard fuel too! As an example i was able to add a proper inner wing induction kit and a FULL stainless steel Exhaust system to my MKII 180 (were talking manifolds/200CPI sport cat and duplex cat back system!!) and it was fine and dandy with it, and it gained a truck load of torque and a nice wee addition to the pony count too, All this without having to resort ot reflashes/remapping etc etc. Seems like an oppurtunity missed to me!

[blue harbour]

Originally Posted by Smithy1988

Yep along the same lines as me.

I would say that you wont get to 220bhp without some engine mods. I gather that the flash pro just gives a lot more mid range and not really any more peak power. But still potentially worth doing just for that

Well IF i knew you could use Flashpro without sacrificing ANYTHING gadget/widget wise, then it would be added together with something like an HKS Legamax exhaust (which from what i can glean is just about the quietest aftermarket system you can get!) and a good proper induction kit too! I'd like to think that i'd be able to add these few mods and not have to sacrifice too much in terms of comfort (noise wise!), and get "somewhere" near to the figure i had in mind power wise too!!

Mind you i'd also like to bet i could easily kiss goodbye to well over £2k for that lot too (especially if i had the car properly mapped to the mods!)

[ash_rage]

Originally Posted by Staffs Deltic

There were issues with MAP tuning but these have been ironed out. The only thing that doesn't work on mine is the rev lights.

If your running a MAP/Race cal then your oil warning light doesnt work either. You can get the trip computer avg ampg to work but it takes a lot of trial an error.

Originally Posted by blue harbour

Can you elaborate on what the difference is between the two kinds please (if you know!)



D'ya know - call me overly fussy but that would be enough to make think twice!

Said this before but it's a real shame that Honda didn't use an ECU like the Siemens units that were fitted to the MGZS180's (of which i had two btw!), as these were "self learning" (to a point) and had enough range in them to allow some slight modifications and the car would still run within safe parameters on the standard maps on standard fuel too! As an example i was able to add a proper inner wing induction kit and a FULL stainless steel Exhaust system to my MKII 180 (were talking manifolds/200CPI sport cat and duplex cat back system!!) and it was fine and dandy with it, and it gained a truck load of torque and a nice wee addition to the pony count too, All this without having to resort ot reflashes/remapping etc etc. Seems like an oppurtunity missed to me!

Just different ways of tuning. But maf cals are catching up with the extra functionality of race cals.

Historically map based tuning could only be done on race cals but now you can do it on maf cals so they are like "hydrib" cals now.

A race cal is actually the rom from a FD2 so thats why historically the fuel gauge didnt work but hondata have fixed that now. Only few things dont work on race cals now but race cals have slightly more options for tuning.

[Staffs Deltic]

Originally Posted by blue harbour

D'ya know - call me overly fussy but that would be enough to make think twice!

Given the choice I would rather have my rev lights than not. There again go back to the way my car was before the remap - NO WAY.

The only reason I have a MAP tune is because my car wouldn't run properly using a MAF tune. If the car had been successfully MAF tuned then the rev lights would have worked. It is an unfortunate side effect of the MAP tune that results in the loss of the lights. I have no regrets.

[Staffs Deltic]

Originally Posted by ash_rage

If your running a MAP/Race cal then your oil warning light doesnt work either. You can get the trip computer avg ampg to work but it takes a lot of trial an error.

All these functions now work fine as there have been updates to cure them. I was at TDI North on Tuesday to get the oil light update loaded.