Who wants a flip key?

[audiopro]

Hi all,

Been lurking a few weeks on the forum but was waiting with introducing myself until I had some proper pictures of my car...

But had some info that I wanted to share with you guys and girls.

I also bought a key from e-bay and left some (positive) feedback to the seller about the fact that it is not working for our cars without modifying it.

Well bottom line is that he redrew the keys from his store but he did made "us" the offer to buy them (at 100 pieces a time). I just wanted to let you know. Maybe it is interesting if the Bentley type keys doesn't come through for what reason what so ever.

See here some pieces of our mail exchange:

HI MATE,
CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT WAS THE PROBLEM AND WHAT MODIFICATION WAS REQUIRED? THIS IS VERY USEFUL INFORMATION FOR ME.ALEX

Hi,
There are two things... The module we have to get out of the old key doesn't fit directly in the key. It's just off so you have to change it a bit. But that's not the most difficult thing everybody could get that fixed.
The real problem is with the immobilizer.
With the key of the type VIII the immobilizer is attached to the pcb. You have to desolder it and put it to the top of the key and connect it with wires to the pcb again. Otherwise the immobilizer is to far away from the thing that is checking it. See also
Who wants a flip key?

Kind Regards,

Danny

After reading your info I decided to pull the item immediately and change the listings dramatically.It is really only suitable for the older keys with seperate transponder.I cannot expect the average person to do all the work required for the the later models.I will relist again when I feel everything is right.Thanks again for your help.Alex

Hi Danny,
I have stopped selling those conversions on Ebay as after reading all the thread I realise its only enthusiasts who will be prepared to do the work required with the product as it is.Bearing this in mind I am happy to offer them to your club members who will be fully aware of the work required.If the club can purchase a minimum order of 100 each time I am happy to offer a post free price of 7.99 a piece.
Hope this may be of interest to your club.
Best Wishes
Alex.


Well thats it for me.

Grtx

Danny

[Stef]

One more tip for opening the original car key.

Some nut at Honda decided to use 'lock tight' on the screw.
So MAKE SURE you have a perect FIT screw driver, before trying to open the key.
Otherwize the screw will be damaged (I know).

[Stef]

So now we have to buy 100 instead of 1 ??

Thanks a lot!

[audiopro]

Well thats a nice welcome....

but any way.. I didn't ask him to do this but I can understand it... If he have to give all the people a refund that doesn't know how to change it.....

I think if you ask him you can alway buy it for the old price you and I paid for it....

[CivPilot]

Well, after a slow and carefully planned execution, IT'S ALIVE!!!


Sorry I didn't take any photos 'Mid Build' but I wanted to concentrate on being carefull and getting things working. The amount of Plastic shows how much needs to be carefully cut from inside the new case. This is mainly to run the wires to the new transponder position.

But the end result is that the key works perfectly. Very happy

Some small lessons/hints/tips learned along the way:-

As previously noted, make sure you get a perfect fit screw driver for the tiny screws. Any movement could strip the heads with ease.

Take note which way up the transponder wires onto the main board. Mine had a clear code printed on it so it was pretty easy. But as with all electronics, there is a small chance that not all transponders will be printed as such.

The transponder is both glued and soldered to the main board. To remove mine I applied heat to soften the solder whilst inserting a very sharp (and strong) scalpel blade between it and the board. The transponder itself is conected by flat plate to flat plate (rather than pins) so it is faily easy to remove if you follow this hint.

Have a drill or hole cutter (I used a hole borer, big silver monster thing in the top of my shot) so you can run the wires for the transponder from within the module. Remember, the module isn't meant to have wires coming out of it, so there is no provision for these. You will have to make these holes.

Plan the above holes very carefully taking into acount where those wires will sit within the new key case (I test fitted 4 times before making a final decision and cutting the holes)

When dismanteling the new flip case be very carefull to try and remember how many turns the flip spring has on it. This just makes things easier, like a muppet I opened mine and let it spin off, cure about 6 attempts of winding and rebuilding before I found the perfect tension for smooth operation .


Take your time.

[gray52]

ive had a word with alex regarding the bulk ordering and i think it will be too much for 1 person to sort out, and will take a long while to get 100 orders. ive put some prices to him and he has kindly quoted the following (prices inc p+p) :-

[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Best I can do is 9.99 OR 2 for 17.99.I can make a barely acceptable profit at that pricing.Please post that on the site and give my email address alx_rob@yahoo.com paypal payment only please.

Thanks for your help.
Best Wishes
Alex.[/font]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']for those who cannot wait for the bentley type, this is now a good saving on the original price and will give you something to get on with until the bentley type arrives. [/font]

[kamshaft]

i wouldnt mind getting on of thoes ebay keys but its the soldering bit on the transponder that is bugging me, as ive never done any soldering.

[gray52]

if you have never done any soldering then i would advise you not to do the mod or find someone who could do it for you, this is not an easy job to do for a 1st timer.

[CivPilot]

Originally Posted by gray52

if you have never done any soldering then i would advise you not to do the mod or find someone who could do it for you, this is not an easy job to do for a 1st timer.

I totally agree. I've done a fair bit of electronics and fine modelling and I have to say cutting up the original key was somewhat nerve racking. However, if you can handle a soldering iron, a pair of pliers, and have patience, well, the task isnt that hard.

Just take things slow and plan what your going to do before you do it.

[kevin_lufc]

CivPilot, great work. How long did the work take to do? Did you need any special tools? On a scale of 1-10 (1 being very hard) how easy is the job?

[Green Hornet]

Originally Posted by Kremmen

These days I don't see why we need a "key"

Other manufacturers are developing smartcard systems.

My brother has a Renault (its rubbish) and when the damn card doesn't work (very often!) he cant lock the car because he has no manual key option. As a result he cant bring the car anywhere. Not that anybody would steal a Laguna. Its absolutely the worst pile of junk ever witnessed by mankind! Everything that can go wrong has! At least twice.

[CivPilot]

Originally Posted by kevin_lufc

CivPilot, great work. How long did the work take to do? Did you need any special tools? On a scale of 1-10 (1 being very hard) how easy is the job?

What I had easy to hand from memory:-

Philips head screw driver (small, make sure it's exact)
Scalpel with strong blade
Soldering Iron (fine tip is best)
Solder (used some very good lead free stuff that a mate provided, used on circuit boards normally so worth borrowing I guess)
Fine tip pliers
Fine tip tweezers
Drill or hole cutter (for the required wire holes in the module outer case)
Fine wire (the more flexible the better)
Dremmel (not really a must have, but usefull in cutting the inside of the new key in a few areas to help things fit snuggly)
fine snip cutters (As above, choose which. I used the dremmel and scalpel combined)
Patience

I think the whole job took me an hour or two as it wasn't that hard really, just a bit scary (I was cutting my key up!!).
The hardest part was removing the Transponder from the board as you must be very gentle (it's quite fragile feeling) but at the same time need to use a little bit of force to break the glue bond.

The other tedious part is trimming out the interior of the new key to help things fit snuggly. Mainly the bits to cut are around the transponder slot to allow room for the wire to slot into place. On page 17 of this thread Stef has posted some pictures to show what you need to cut. This just takes time removing a bit of plastic at a time until things fit.
In my key I also had to trim a couple of pillars from the other side of the case slightly as with them at full length the case wouldn't close properly.

If you have soldered before and are good at fiddly things (and have patience) then I would say the job is quite easy, it's just a bit daunting.

If you are at all worried about doing it, then best you don't until you are sure.

I'm sure someone will post up a detailed step by step "how too" sometime soon if you whish to wait. I didnt take any pictures along the way so it would be a waste of time for me to do it.

[tzo]

Originally Posted by XCGuard

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X1 tzo

[mark511915]

[quote=XCGuard;144848]The firm was shut this week for the Chinese new year, reopening Tomorrow or Tuesday. Should finish designing it and hopefully produce an actual key by the end of coming week.

Any word as yet ?

[Stef]

Just on the side;
My father in law just received his 12000€ (9000£) Mazda_2. And it has one of the nicest flip keys around. (looks like the new Honda-(Acura) one)
I am glad I got my key transformed, to reduce the pain...

[Koen]

Yes, the non-flippability of the civic key has had me doubting for months on buying the car or not. But I finally decided to buy the civic despite this, and to have all my pants' pockets adapted to the big ugly key.

If there's so much to say by so many people about something as trivial as the key shape, I think the civic is a great car!

K.

[allan40alt]

I've just found this current offer on ebay from a seller in Canada.

It shows a 3 button in the picture but states that the 2 button is available.

HONDA TRANSPONDER KEY REMOTE FOB CASE CIVIC ACCORD JAZZ on eBay, also, Honda, Car Parts, Cars, Parts Vehicles (end time 20-Feb-08 00:48:11 GMT)


Ps: I've emailed them to ask if it's a straight transfer or whether dis-assembly and re-soldering is required.

[eighteentee]

Just come out of surgery with my freshly transplanted flip-key. All doing well. The operation took around 40 minutes to complete and the end results are looking good. Well, at least the car starts which is a bonus!

[CivPilot]

Originally Posted by allan40alt

I've just found this current offer on ebay from a seller in Canada.

It shows a 3 button in the picture but states that the 2 button is available.

HONDA TRANSPONDER KEY REMOTE FOB CASE CIVIC ACCORD JAZZ on eBay, also, Honda, Car Parts, Cars, Parts Vehicles (end time 20-Feb-08 00:48:11 GMT)


Ps: I've emailed them to ask if it's a straight transfer or whether dis-assembly and re-soldering is required.

Well, from the pictures it is exactly the same make as the 2 button version I used with the button holes in the same place.

That means the key module will be in the same place, which in turn means the transponder will be too far away from the car and will require moving. So dis-assembly and re-soldering will be required, bet on it. sorry.

In fact, I would go so far as saying that there is no straight transfer unit available. The flip mechanism itself requires the key module to be mounted further back in the key case, hence moving the transponder out of range.

[eighteentee]

I suppose it would be a golden oportunity for the Chinese manufacturers of this new Bentley-style key to have the facility to mount the original key 'innards' as far forward as possible, thus requiring no hacking.