Who wants a flip key? - Page 23

gray52 · 25th February 2008, 23:12

yeah see what you mean there, as with the transponder it is fully working by removing it and putting more forwards. have you not got yout ebay flip key to work?

charlas · 25th February 2008, 23:34

Not had a chance to get it all de-soldered yet, I was trying to create an aerial extender to do away with the desolder, unfortunatly it looks like the civic's sender unit does not create enough wattage though....

CivPilot · 26th February 2008, 06:47

And ariel extender won't work though, as it is the transponder chip itself that sends the signal, not the PCB (by that I mean that the transponder is a rolling code chip, not a simple transmitter).
It is the Transponder chip itself that needs to be at the front of the case, running a wire from it will not work. I know this for a fact as while making my key the first attempt didn't work, I thought I had killed it but when I opened the case it turned out the transponder had moved backwards whilst I was putting things back together. However, one of the wires attached to the transponder was right at the front of the case (so if the ariel idea was valid, this would have still worked).

As for moving the module forward have a look at my post on the previous page. To move the module forward enough in the key case without de-soldering the flip key would have to be at least one and a half times the width of the normal key. It would be a hideous monster of a thing.

Of course, you could try moving the module to sit "piggy back" on the opposite side of the key to the flip switch. This would mean the key could stay the same width but the depth of the key would be twice that of the flip key, so again, a total monster of a key. But this idea again is flawed as the transponder could end up being too far away from the barrel (due to the width of module + case etc the transponder would be about 15/20mm further away from the barrel than normal, just in a lateral direction)

Obviously the length of the flip key cannot change as this is dictated by the key itself when folded.

Unfortunately guys it appears absolute that in order to have a flip key that still fits in your pocket you must move the transponder off the PCB and do some soldering. Harsh, but trust me, I have tested the transponder without wires and taken loads of measurements (to do that dodgy photoshop on the previous page) and there is no way round it.

Your choices are:-

Get someone to make a hideous double width flip case
Get the soldering Iron out

You just have to ask yourself, just how much do you really want a flip key?

Sorry this post isn't all sweetness and light, but just trying to be real about this. I spent a lot of time taking the measurments and checking things (rather less time in photoshop it must be said

) on the previous page and it seems to have already been ignored

.

20civic07 · 26th February 2008, 16:59

did you guys have any trouble having the key cut at your dealership? did you have to take out the blank in order to have it cut? also, do you really need to resolder the transponder back onto the pcb board? from what i've read the transponder gets its power from an induction field when you start the car (the distance between whatever it is that sends the power and the transponder).

eighteentee · 26th February 2008, 17:02

I got my key cut on the local market for £10. No problem. AFAIK you *must* connect the transponder to the PCB in order for the key to work.

20civic07 · 26th February 2008, 17:18

why do you have to connect the pcb in order for the key to work, have you tried it without connecting it to the board? reason i ask is because the valet keys we get have only the transponder inside of it, there is no circuit board ( i believe )

CivPilot · 26th February 2008, 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by 20civic07

why do you have to connect the pcb in order for the key to work, have you tried it without connecting it to the board? reason i ask is because the valet keys we get have only the transponder inside of it, there is no circuit board ( i believe )

If you actually read this thread you will find that yes, we have tried the transponder seperate from the PCB and no, it does not work. It MUST be connected to the board in some way.

I wont go over it in fine detail again as it is all written out over the last 3 or 4 pages of this very thread but to recap:-

The size of the flip mechanism requires the PCB to be moved back within the new key case and away from the ignition barrel.

This moves the transponder out of range and the car will not start.

In order for the flip key to work you must (carefully) remove the Transponder from the PCB, place it in the slot provided within the flip case and then re-connect it via soldered wire to the correct ports on the PCB.

The transponder will NOT WORK unless it is connected to the correct terminals on the PCB

There is no way round this.

Sorry it's not better news for you, but if you are not confident in following the instructions on this thread my only advice is don't try it.

As for getting the key cut, I just went to a key cutter in the high street (well, Basingstoke town centre actually) and paid £5. A main dealer will charge you 4 times that at least.

Ps. I have 2 keys with my car, both have the exact same PCB inside with the transponder on the board. Not sure what you mean by "valet key". I don't have one. And without a circuit board you would not be able to activate the alarm system when you lock the car (or unlock the car via remote, as the remote is the circuit board) so it would be totally useless as a main key anyway.

Edited to add:-

Noticed you are in the USA, in which case I hardly think you should be even following this thread. The US model Civic is different to the UK car (USA gets the japanses made 4door, not the UK made hatch) and hence the security aspect may also be different. Any modifications you get here may well have an adverse effect. Please check on a US based site talking about US model Civic regarding mods to your electrical system.

dudesterlang · 26th February 2008, 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by gray52

i dont think this would work as i would have to be opened in the left hand then passed to the right hand to go into the ignition barrel, i would want to be doing that, i would stay with the standard key.

I agree this would be a pain in the arse & wouldn't feel right.
I understand that it may cause problems but if it doesn't feel right nobody is going to spend money on it. I've only had experience of the Golf flip key which felt perfect - sorry to all left handers but I reckon most people use their right hand (for a number of things) one of which is to open their car.
I personally still want one (but it has to be right) but I can already see people going off the idea with all the problems involved - too much talk about it may be having an adverse effect. If the correct key is finally found I would take it to my local alarm/stereo installer to sort out, I have mentioned it to them & they are quite happy to give it a go.

20civic07 · 26th February 2008, 18:29

looks something like this:

eBay Motors: 03 04 2003 2004 Honda Odyssey key ! Transponder Key (item 190200253987 end time Feb-26-08 16:48:24 PST)

that is the "valet" key. it has not PCB inside of it ( i believe ), just the transponder.

CivPilot · 26th February 2008, 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by 20civic07

looks something like this:

eBay Motors: 03 04 2003 2004 Honda Odyssey key ! Transponder Key (item 190200253987 end time Feb-26-08 16:48:24 PST)

that is the "valet" key. it has not PCB inside of it ( i believe ), just the transponder.

Please see the note I made on my last post in red.

You are in the USA and drive a different car to the UK. This thread is discussing the UK cars security system and it is obviously very different to the US one. Please do not try and follow advice here as we are not qualified to anwser (after all, we don't have the same valet key as you).

Those guys waiting for a better answer on the flip keys are in for a long wait, all the info on why the moving of the transponder is the only answer on this thread.
There really is no other way. You just cannot get round the simple fact that no matter which way round you fit the flip section it will still be the same size. And the PCB will still be there. So its either a stupidly large key or a soldering job.

Or just walk away and keep your normal key.

20civic07 · 27th February 2008, 02:28

I understand that you are in the UK and that I am in the US. But lots of honda cars share identical parts, just different part names. I will be getting my key soon so I will test it out and maybe it'll work out, and if so, you can just buy a USDM key and have the program it to your UK civic. (hatch is sexy)

XCGuard · 27th February 2008, 03:57

They are still working on building the proto type, but here is the key they have designed on their system. Yes it looks almost identical to the bentley key, but that was the aim! Ignore the colour as that will be a sort of dark navy blue, and the buttons will be the original ones from the Honda key.
Someone is bound to question the fact the blade looks different, dont worry the actual blade will be relevant to our keys.
My first impression was

. Now we just need to see the prototype.

The guy who sent me these pics is in the sales dept. so wasnt able to tell me what the measurements of the key are. If and when I get more details I will post them up.

Naasir.

CivPilot · 27th February 2008, 06:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by 20civic07

I understand that you are in the UK and that I am in the US. But lots of honda cars share identical parts, just different part names. I will be getting my key soon so I will test it out and maybe it'll work out, and if so, you can just buy a USDM key and have the program it to your UK civic. (hatch is sexy)

Don't get me wrong, I know your questions are valid. I'm mearly pointing out that the UK car clearly has a totally different security system fitted as we do not have a seperate Valet key without PCB.
The reason for this is that our car's security system requires the transponder to be powered via the PCB, so having a transponder only key would not work.
I actually think you will be ok without the re-wire but the only person who can be sure of that is you.

Here is what you need to do... Open your standard key and look at the case. Is there a small extra bit in the top end of the case totally seperate from the PCB board? (This could have a small oblong white cover over it).

If you do have a seperate item not connected then this would be the transponder, in which case you just need to remove this from the old case and slot it into the new one. No soldering or reprogramming required.

If your not sure what your looking at take a picture and post it up here and we can have a looksee for you (I've now put a flip key together for a Honda with seperate transponder so know the difference pretty quickly).

We in the UK cannot buy an American key and have it programmed as our car uses the latest securtiy system and these two systems are not interchangeable. Our system requires a powered Transponder. I think your missing the reason why we have to do the soldering job?

The Bentley style key looks ok XCGuard, will be interested to see the measurments and the actual design with the correct key module arrangement inside. I would also be interested to know if the metal sides will actually be metal? This could potentially make the key a bit larger than the currently available ebay one.
Deffinately on the right track with that one

gray52 · 27th February 2008, 13:26

i think if it looks more like the original bentley style key at the start of the tread, black body and chrome sides and would be nice if these were metal with a chrome "H" on a black or red background, then i dont think this will be far out, but its good to see we are on the right track and not far off getting one.

Charles_Harding · 27th February 2008, 14:07

Seems all wrong to me!

Grown men getting exited over just a key!

"I don't seem to fit in.
I feel like the guy in a nudist colony
......with a Parka!"

CivPilot · 27th February 2008, 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles_Harding

Seems all wrong to me!

Grown men getting exited over just a key!

So why bother posting in the thread then?

Charles_Harding · 27th February 2008, 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by CivPilot

So why bother posting in the thread then?

'cos I'm one of those grown men!

"I had such poor vision.
I'd date anybody!"

civicfan · 27th February 2008, 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles_Harding

Seems all wrong to me!

Grown men getting exited over just a key!

"I don't seem to fit in.
I feel like the guy in a nudist colony
......with a Parka!"

It gets worse - some get high on a gearstick

csmcqueen · 27th February 2008, 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by civicfan

some get high on a gearstick

Me, I get high on a ladder

CivPilot · 27th February 2008, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles_Harding

'cos I'm one of those grown men!

View Poll Results: Are you interested in purchasing a flip key?
Yes, and I am willing to pay upto £15 for one.	627	88.06%
No, I am happy to live with the key I have.	85	11.94%
Voters: 712. You may not vote on this poll \| Withdraw Vote

26th February 2008, 06:47	#443 (permalink)
CivPilot 您看了 Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 1st May 2006 Location: Surrey/Hants Posts: 446 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	And ariel extender won't work though, as it is the transponder chip itself that sends the signal, not the PCB (by that I mean that the transponder is a rolling code chip, not a simple transmitter). It is the Transponder chip itself that needs to be at the front of the case, running a wire from it will not work. I know this for a fact as while making my key the first attempt didn't work, I thought I had killed it but when I opened the case it turned out the transponder had moved backwards whilst I was putting things back together. However, one of the wires attached to the transponder was right at the front of the case (so if the ariel idea was valid, this would have still worked). As for moving the module forward have a look at my post on the previous page. To move the module forward enough in the key case without de-soldering the flip key would have to be at least one and a half times the width of the normal key. It would be a hideous monster of a thing. Of course, you could try moving the module to sit "piggy back" on the opposite side of the key to the flip switch. This would mean the key could stay the same width but the depth of the key would be twice that of the flip key, so again, a total monster of a key. But this idea again is flawed as the transponder could end up being too far away from the barrel (due to the width of module + case etc the transponder would be about 15/20mm further away from the barrel than normal, just in a lateral direction) Obviously the length of the flip key cannot change as this is dictated by the key itself when folded. Unfortunately guys it appears absolute that in order to have a flip key that still fits in your pocket you must move the transponder off the PCB and do some soldering. Harsh, but trust me, I have tested the transponder without wires and taken loads of measurements (to do that dodgy photoshop on the previous page) and there is no way round it. Your choices are:- Get someone to make a hideous double width flip case Get the soldering Iron out You just have to ask yourself, just how much do you really want a flip key? Sorry this post isn't all sweetness and light, but just trying to be real about this. I spent a lot of time taking the measurments and checking things (rather less time in photoshop it must be said) on the previous page and it seems to have already been ignored .


This thread is about: Who wants a flip key?, it's in General Discussion at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; yeah see what you mean there, as with the transponder it is fully working by removing it and putting more forwards. have you not got ...

25th February 2008, 23:12	#441 (permalink)
gray52 Supporter Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 23rd November 2006 Location: peterborough Posts: 937 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts iTrader: (1)	yeah see what you mean there, as with the transponder it is fully working by removing it and putting more forwards. have you not got yout ebay flip key to work?

25th February 2008, 23:34	#442 (permalink)
charlas i-VTEC Junkie Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 29th January 2008 Location: Leics/Warwick Posts: 159 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader: (0)	Not had a chance to get it all de-soldered yet, I was trying to create an aerial extender to do away with the desolder, unfortunatly it looks like the civic's sender unit does not create enough wattage though....

26th February 2008, 16:59	#444 (permalink)
20civic07 Valve Cap Join Date: 25th February 2008 Location: US Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	did you guys have any trouble having the key cut at your dealership? did you have to take out the blank in order to have it cut? also, do you really need to resolder the transponder back onto the pcb board? from what i've read the transponder gets its power from an induction field when you start the car (the distance between whatever it is that sends the power and the transponder).

26th February 2008, 17:02	#445 (permalink)
eighteentee Supporter Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 26th September 2007 Location: Clitheroe, UK Posts: 129 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	I got my key cut on the local market for £10. No problem. AFAIK you must connect the transponder to the PCB in order for the key to work.

26th February 2008, 17:18	#446 (permalink)
20civic07 Valve Cap Join Date: 25th February 2008 Location: US Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	why do you have to connect the pcb in order for the key to work, have you tried it without connecting it to the board? reason i ask is because the valet keys we get have only the transponder inside of it, there is no circuit board ( i believe )

26th February 2008, 18:29	#449 (permalink)
20civic07 Valve Cap Join Date: 25th February 2008 Location: US Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	looks something like this: eBay Motors: 03 04 2003 2004 Honda Odyssey key ! Transponder Key (item 190200253987 end time Feb-26-08 16:48:24 PST) that is the "valet" key. it has not PCB inside of it ( i believe ), just the transponder.

27th February 2008, 02:28	#451 (permalink)
20civic07 Valve Cap Join Date: 25th February 2008 Location: US Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	I understand that you are in the UK and that I am in the US. But lots of honda cars share identical parts, just different part names. I will be getting my key soon so I will test it out and maybe it'll work out, and if so, you can just buy a USDM key and have the program it to your UK civic. (hatch is sexy)

27th February 2008, 13:26	#454 (permalink)
gray52 Supporter Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 23rd November 2006 Location: peterborough Posts: 937 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts iTrader: (1)	i think if it looks more like the original bentley style key at the start of the tread, black body and chrome sides and would be nice if these were metal with a chrome "H" on a black or red background, then i dont think this will be far out, but its good to see we are on the right track and not far off getting one.

27th February 2008, 14:07	#455 (permalink)
Charles_Harding Civinfo guru Join Date: 14th August 2006 Location: S.E. London Posts: 3,303 Thanks: 113 Thanked 27 Times in 26 Posts iTrader: (0)	Seems all wrong to me! Grown men getting exited over just a key! "I don't seem to fit in. I feel like the guy in a nudist colony ......with a Parka!"