Badge status

[doodledog]

I have two cars, a Skoda and the Civic.

The Civic replaced my S2000 which i owned for 2 years and had no issues with at all. civic is 4 months old and so far the same. If the s2K had been an issue I would not have brough another Honda

The other car is a 2 yr old Skoda Superb and it lives up it's name, reliable, economical, very well appointed and it cost over 7K less than the equivalent Passat. Funnily enough though when I had a puncture the boot mat, jack and the brake calipers were all marked VW / Audi. It has the same Sat nav as the Passats had at the time, it also has the VW 140 BHP TDI engine. basically it's an elongated Passat body with a skoda badge.

I don't care what the badge says, to my mind it was a better buy than the VW as it has the same quality control and costs substantially less. It may deprecite more becasue of it's badge but over teh period of timei inetend to keep it I don't really care ! it also knocks the spots off the 3 yr old Jag it replaced !

[Topcat]

I was always told you cant go wrong with a Honda which was one of the reasons I bought one but I soon learnt that buying a car based on its reputation isnt always the right thing.

If the car drives nice, you like the look of it and most important it doesnt let you down then who cares what badge is on the front of it

[HappyMan]

Originally Posted by Topcat

If the car drives nice, you like the look of it and most important it doesnt let you down then who cares what badge is on the front of it

I agree TC. I have a Fabia and it is wonderful and I and my wife love it. As I live in Poland I really didn't go the 'badge' route as everything is Audi and now I see the BMW badge growing.

When I got my Civic, one friend said to me ' now that's a better car for you' meaning not skoda! To me the civic and the skoda are as good as each other, maybe not in the drive and equipment but in the reliability, build and so on there is little difference.

I guess cars are much of a muchness now, aren't they?

[sambuca2907]

Originally Posted by fennj

I'm interested in the views of badge status. I consider Honda to be sub-premium and slot in somwhere here :-

Mercedes/BMW/Audi

Volkswagon/Honda

Toyota/Ford

Vaux'/Pug'/Renu'/

Kia/Proton etc.

What do you think ?, as I don't think that my views are shared with the general motoring public. Perhaps people that are in the know may agree with me.

I agree with some of yours- have moved around a bit. What do you reckon? Deffo Pug and Renu near the bottom. I think Vaux' and Seat are just below Ford and Skoda...

Mercedes/BMW/Audi/Lexus

Volkswagon/Honda/Toyota

Ford/Skoda
Vaux'/Seat

Pug'/Renu'

[LNT]

For me, top of the pile would be Rolls Royce and Bentley.

Once you get the Mercs and BMWs of this world making the A class and 1 series respectively, you can tell they are actually trying to go downmarket rather than the Honda's going upmarket. The A2 was a fantastic car though. My friend has an X reg one and its a 1.2 diesel, superb fuel economy and made from aluminium! Great car.

[Foggy69]

Originally Posted by NH Dan

As I said (and following the theme of the thread) this is not about specific cars, its about the perception of Brands and their placement within the marketplace.

As a general rule, in my experience, most people would place VW above Citroen.

I don't go on perceptions as such, more on the experiences I, and friends and family, have of the brand. Also evidence from surveys carried out by the likes of JD Power.
These give a more realistic view of how good or bad a particular manufacture is.

And virtually every survey says that Citroen owners on the whole aren't that happy about the cars and the dealers. Oddly enough, VW isn't that good in most of the surveys, but it is mid table, rather than with Citroen at the bottom.
It is information like this that would make me buy a Toyota Argo, rather than a C1 or a 107, which are essentially identical cars. Not because of the perception of the Toyota badge, or any kind on snobbery, but the evidence of my wife and my parents who both have a Yaris. The Yaris's have provided many years of worry free motoring courtesy of a reliable car and good dealers. Evidence from the surveys back this evidence up, by placing Toyota towards the top of the satisfaction league. Compared to Toyota, Citroen and Peugeot are both at the bottom of all the surveys, and I have my own Peugeot experience that backs up the surveys results.

And after my thoughts on Kia and Audi, in the TG survey I was looking at, Audi was only 2 places higher than Kia

[alanwalne]

On a slight slant, IMO GM should have waited until release of new models to change the name Daewoo to Chevvy rather than rebranding the old models.

[HappyMan]

Originally Posted by Foggy69

I don't go on perceptions as such, more on the experiences I, and friends and family, have of the brand. Also evidence from surveys carried out by the likes of JD Power.
These give a more realistic view of how good or bad a particular manufacture is.

And virtually every survey says that Citroen owners on the whole aren't that happy about the cars and the dealers. Oddly enough, VW isn't that good in most of the surveys, but it is mid table, rather than with Citroen at the bottom.
It is information like this that would make me buy a Toyota Argo, rather than a C1 or a 107, which are essentially identical cars. Not because of the perception of the Toyota badge, or any kind on snobbery, but the evidence of my wife and my parents who both have a Yaris. The Yaris's have provided many years of worry free motoring courtesy of a reliable car and good dealers. Evidence from the surveys back this evidence up, by placing Toyota towards the top of the satisfaction league. Compared to Toyota, Citroen and Peugeot are both at the bottom of all the surveys, and I have my own Peugeot experience that backs up the surveys results.

And after my thoughts on Kia and Audi, in the TG survey I was looking at, Audi was only 2 places higher than Kia

You raise some good points there. Before I bought my Fabia I wanted to maybe get the focus because I liked the look of the focus and you can get parts for them everywhere. However, the parts are expensive here in poland for some reason and we bought the Fabia - and boy am I glad. The car has been so reliable and in 3 years has done over 60,000 km.

My wife will probably change here car in the next couple of years and the only thing that is putting my wife off buying another Fabia is that it is boring looking inside and out.

I was recently in Germany at a car show and sat in the Kia Cee'd and the build quality was fantastic and the car looks good too! I really think the Kia Procee'd looks very sexy and would even look at one of those as my next car!

So as you can see I am not a badge snob - I have to think what will cost me the least over the lifetime I have in terms of maintenance and so on - I am not a millionaire.

[alanwalne]

Originally Posted by Foggy69

And virtually every survey says that Citroen owners on the whole aren't that happy about the cars and the dealers. Oddly enough, VW isn't that good in most of the surveys, but it is mid table, rather than with Citroen at the bottom.
It is information like this that would make me buy a Toyota Argo, rather than a C1 or a 107, which are essentially identical cars. Not because of the perception of the Toyota badge, or any kind on snobbery, but the evidence of my wife and my parents who both have a Yaris. The Yaris's have provided many years of worry free motoring courtesy of a reliable car and good dealers. Evidence from the surveys back this evidence up, by placing Toyota towards the top of the satisfaction league. Compared to Toyota, Citroen and Peugeot are both at the bottom of all the surveys, and I have my own Peugeot experience that backs up the surveys results.

We bought an Aygo (rather than a 107) for the above reasons.
It cost about £800 more, but amazingly the servicing costs are £200 less over three years from our local Toyota rather than Pug!!!

I guess it will be worth a few hundred more in a couple of years owing to the perceived reputation. With Toyota (as with Honda) the trree years warranty are provided by the manufacurer rather than years 2 & 3 from the dealer.

You are not just buying a car, there is also the interaction (pre and post sale) with the dealer. IMO that is difference between badge snobbery and reputation, for me the reputation is more important than snobbery.

I would place Toyota above BMW and Audi in that respect.

[brooksm]

Badge image works both ways though. There are also pre-concieved ideas about drivers due to the badge of the car they drive. Up until 12 months ago, we had a Porsche 968 . A wonderful car (always wanted a Porsche since I was old enough to pronounce it) that went like smoke and cost us less than a second hand hatch (we had change from 11K).

But the point is, unless I knew the person I was talking to liked cars (and even then, not always) I would just say I had a German sports car, because as soon as you mention you drove a Porsche (regardless of what model or age) you instantly get tarred with the same brush (flash b*****erd etc). Sold the Porsche and got an A6 Avant TDI so now I'm instantly seen as a sensible family man. Its a shame but unfortunately its life.

[Palindrome]

Originally Posted by brooksm

Badge image works both ways though. There are also pre-concieved ideas about drivers due to the badge of the car they drive. Up until 12 months ago, we had a Porsche 968 . A wonderful car (always wanted a Porsche since I was old enough to pronounce it) that went like smoke and cost us less than a second hand hatch (we had change from 11K).

But the point is, unless I knew the person I was talking to liked cars (and even then, not always) I would just say I had a German sports car, because as soon as you mention you drove a Porsche (regardless of what model or age) you instantly get tarred with the same brush (flash b*****erd etc). Sold the Porsche and got an A6 Avant TDI so now I'm instantly seen as a sensible family man. Its a shame but unfortunately its life.

..............or estage agent

[sambuca2907]

Originally Posted by HappyMan

You raise some good points there. Before I bought my Fabia I wanted to maybe get the focus because I liked the look of the focus and you can get parts for them everywhere. However, the parts are expensive here in poland for some reason and we bought the Fabia - and boy am I glad. The car has been so reliable and in 3 years has done over 60,000 km.

My wife will probably change here car in the next couple of years and the only thing that is putting my wife off buying another Fabia is that it is boring looking inside and out.

I was recently in Germany at a car show and sat in the Kia Cee'd and the build quality was fantastic and the car looks good too! I really think the Kia Procee'd looks very sexy and would even look at one of those as my next car!

So as you can see I am not a badge snob - I have to think what will cost me the least over the lifetime I have in terms of maintenance and so on - I am not a millionaire.

The Procee'd is a really nice looking car! The 2.0 TDI version is actually quite fast also! I have no problem buying a Skoda - The VRS is lovely. However I couldn't buy a Kia... at the moment...

Guy at work has a Cee'd - he had a tiny paint bubble about the size of a pea on the side of the door where you step into the car - could only see it when the door was open - Kia phoned him - and asked if there were any problems with the car - so he told them - and they were shocked - and got the car in for a repair and full re-spray. They are doing really really well with the customer service.

[Foggy69]

Originally Posted by sambuca2907

The Procee'd is a really nice looking car! The 2.0 TDI version is actually quite fast also! I have no problem buying a Skoda - The VRS is lovely. However I couldn't buy a Kia... at the moment...

Guy at work has a Cee'd - he had a tiny paint bubble about the size of a pea on the side of the door where you step into the car - could only see it when the door was open - Kia phoned him - and asked if there were any problems with the car - so he told them - and they were shocked - and got the car in for a repair and full re-spray. They are doing really really well with the customer service.

As I mentioned earlier, I drove a ProCee'd last week (still a silly name). Inside and out, the fit and finish appeared very good. It drove and handled nicely. The 2.0 diesel was fast and smooth. And the big bonus at the time, as a rattle in my Civic was driving me bonkers, was it had a nice quiet rattle free interior. The dealer was extremely helpful, it has a 7 year full warranty and it looks fabulous. The top of the range 2.0 Sport with a fair bit of kit costs a whisker under £16000.
If you took off the Kia badge and put on a VW badge, I think a lot of people won't realise and take it for a VW, and would never guess that you were driving a 'budget' Korean car. And by your friends and my experience of a Kia dealer, you probably get better service than that from a VW dealer

[Jack The Lad.]

I don't often mention this to folk as it was pink, but my wife had a little Kia about 6 years ago and the little devil was as good as gold for the 3 years she owned it.
Give Kia 3 -5 years and they will be well up there with Japan. Pretty close to them now I fancy.

[Chris_J]

My Dad just recently got rid of a 1.8 Zetec Mondeo, and I don't recall anything going wrong with the engine in 7 years and 116,000 miles. However, there was once a broken suspension spring, the rear sub frame has been replaced and it was heavy on brakes.

He's just bought a Skoda Superb Edition 100, and that is a fantastic car. It's the 1.9 130PD, mega efficient, quiet and LOADS of space.

[TTDegs]

Having kust gone through the whole of this debate with myself (due to change company car soon)...

Am I a bdage snob? Yep

With huge apols and no disrespect intended, there is no way that I could bring myself to be driving round in certain cars / brands

Ford. Yes, we all know they are pretty good these days. BUT nothing says 'lower management rep car' than a Mondeo. ST220? yep, maybe. See my reasoning at the end of the post The new Kuga looks good though!

KIA. On one hand, it says 'canny buyer, getting lots of kit for their money' On the other hand it says "couldn't afford something 'better', trying to act all up themselves"

Skoda. Again, now great cars. Could I stand the constant p-take from the rest of the team at work though?

Vauxhall. Whatever you get, it's a rep-mobile. VXR possible exceptions. But still a fast rep-mobile.

Audi. You are definately paying for the badge. Having owned 3 before the Civ, the quality is better - but not £thousands better.

BMW. See Audi.

Toyota / Hyundai. On a par with Honda, good, sensible choice. Especially if you pump for one of the less mainstream models.

Honda. See above



My 'reasons'?
At the end of the day, it's a company car.
And it will be compared against all the other cars in the team.
And we're an unmerciful bunch

We rip the p out of the guy who has had 4 consequtive Jags - as being Mondeos in drag.
I had the P ripped when I got my TT (Golf in drag)

Gawd help anyone who turns up in an estate or an MPV LOL


Do I therefore need a body part extender / substitute?
No.

But do I need something I can easily 'defend'?
Sadly, yes.

The Civ made this task easy

Not sure yet what will this time round.


anyway. Enough waffle.

One final point to make...


If all those people on here are so vocally anti-badge snobbery, how come there is a cross over with the people who get wound up about non-R owners using R bits?

[HappyMan]

Originally Posted by TTDegs

Having kust gone through the whole of this debate with myself (due to change company car soon)...

Am I a bdage snob? Yep

With huge apols and no disrespect intended, there is no way that I could bring myself to be driving round in certain cars / brands

Ford. Yes, we all know they are pretty good these days. BUT nothing says 'lower management rep car' than a Mondeo. ST220? yep, maybe. See my reasoning at the end of the post The new Kuga looks good though!

KIA. On one hand, it says 'canny buyer, getting lots of kit for their money' On the other hand it says "couldn't afford something 'better', trying to act all up themselves"

Skoda. Again, now great cars. Could I stand the constant p-take from the rest of the team at work though?

Vauxhall. Whatever you get, it's a rep-mobile. VXR possible exceptions. But still a fast rep-mobile.

Audi. You are definately paying for the badge. Having owned 3 before the Civ, the quality is better - but not £thousands better.

BMW. See Audi.

Toyota / Hyundai. On a par with Honda, good, sensible choice. Especially if you pump for one of the less mainstream models.

Honda. See above



My 'reasons'?
At the end of the day, it's a company car.
And it will be compared against all the other cars in the team.
And we're an unmerciful bunch

We rip the p out of the guy who has had 4 consequtive Jags - as being Mondeos in drag.
I had the P ripped when I got my TT (Golf in drag)

Gawd help anyone who turns up in an estate or an MPV LOL


Do I therefore need a body part extender / substitute?
No.

But do I need something I can easily 'defend'?
Sadly, yes.

The Civ made this task easy

Not sure yet what will this time round.


anyway. Enough waffle.

One final point to make...


If all those people on here are so vocally anti-badge snobbery, how come there is a cross over with the people who get wound up about non-R owners using R bits?

A very balanced answer TT BUT, surely as prices of running a car continue to rise at the rate they are isn't it time to forget what people think of you and choose the 'sensible' option?

I guess if it is a company car then you want the best you can get, but having a 'prestige' brand isn't all that 'prestige' any more. The sales of BMW are rising ever faster as people seem to be able to afford these marques more and more. it was said that BMW 3 series were selling more than Ford Mondeo's !

I think standards are much of a muchness now and it comes to build quality and issues like that. I think unless you are able to buy the top of the range 'prestige' brands then you are just paying over the odds.

I bought my civic because I like the look of it and the economy of having a larger engine but have a good fuel economy return. I have to be honest here and say that my opinion of Honda was that it was the same as Toyota - reliable and well built, the badge didn't really come into it.

As I have been on record saying, I would have bought a Octavia with no problems it was just a little big, that's all! Plus not as exciting looking as the Civic.

I have to say that I would buy other marques too but at the moment I am sold on the Civic but not because of the badge!

[NH Dan]

Happyman, common sense answer there for sure but TT has covered pretty much the 'average' scenario exactly.

The post was about who'd buy what using a reasoned approach it was about where people saw various brands imagewise.

[Wile E Coyote]

When I went for my test drive I spent a few minutes wombling round the used car bit. The first thing that struck me was the distinct lack of badges.
The majority of cars go out of their way to tell everyone on the outside what is on the inside. My trade-in has - Peugeot, 206, HDi and (or it would have if I hadn't got the dealer to not fit it) GTi.
But as I walked around the Hondas, apart from the H, there was no way to tell if they were diesel or petrol or exactly what model. Unless it's a type R with it's neon lights and loud speakers announcing itself Honda seem to want to keep it a secret.
In a similar vein, I mentioned to the salesman how little Honda advertize. Apart from the brand name, there are no TV, radio, magazine and newspaper ads for models. He said it makes it very difficult to market. You only have to visit the low key dealerships to notice the lack of hype. It seems Honda want you to want one, decide on what model, turn up and buy it.

[TTDegs]

HappyMan - yes, kind of...

It is largely down to peer presure at the end of the day, unfortunately.

In the last batch of car changes (we all tend to change at roughly the same time) we had people who chose base spec Audi A6s over more fully spec'd A4s.
Not becuase they needed the extra room, but becuase the A4 is 'seen' as a middle management car, whereas the A6 is 'seen' as an upper management car

I personally bowed out of that 'race' many years ago.
My first car (which I didn't have a choice over) was an A3.
Then I went to an A4 - which 'fitted' my 'status' at the time

Then I went a bit off the beaten track and got the TT.
This marked me out as being different from the heard (who were getting into Jags / A4 cabrios)
Then came the Civ
This took me well outside the heard mentality (of A6s and BM 5 series), and firmly into the "wacky, but what do you expect from someone with an IT background!" camp

But ultimately, the way that marques are 'seen' in work fall into:

BMW 3 series / Audi A4 - wannabe lower management with no imagination
BMW 5 series / Audi A6 - if base spec then serious wannabe pretentions, or if top spec more money than sense! (ie upper management )
BMW 1 series / Audi A3 - someone who just wants a badge

Any 4x4 - usual reaction to 4x4 (what on earth do you want that for!?)
Porche 4x4 - you paid how much?!
Kia 4x4 - you must be the Kia Account Manager then? Can't think of any other reason why you would get one...

Skoda - Brave!

Ford - no imagination

Honda / Toyota - okay, what extra gadgets can you show me?
Hyundai - similar, but not many people have these, dunno why

Seat - cheap VW, so better make sure you get the cooking version!

VW - overated, no imagination, so be prepared for some stick!

Kia - make a sign now which reads "But it's good - really!"

Alfa - be ready for comments about buying a trailer to put all the bits in that fall off it...


For interest, this time round we have already got:
1 person who has gone for a Lexus is220
1 looking at going for another Saab (he is the ex 4 time Jag owner)
3 CRVs already, plus another possible