Our Expectations

[HappyMan]

OK - so the general consensus is that we are not expecting too much of Honda as not matter the price of the car the quality and so should not be compromised.

Now, what about your dealer then? Do we expect too much of them? Do they do enough for us? Are they on our side or Honda's?

[jazzman]

Originally Posted by R-2

A quality product can be a premium product or a basic one and every grade in between.
If you buy a Bic biro you expect it to work and hopefully not break when you use it. If it does this then it is of a sufficient quality for its function.
If you buy a Mont Blanc pen you would have similar expectations but expect it to be made from better materials.

The civic is a mid range car with more cost constraints than a BMW or Merc for example. So you would expect a less good build quality and/or finish but you would expect it to do its job as a car equally well. (ie sufficient quality for its function).
So we are right to expect complete reliabilty and quality service regardless of price paid.
With a premium marque you would expect build quality etc to surpass what is required for it to function

A bit like the previously mentioned Tesco / Harrods analogy really

Which is exactly what I receive from a great car and great service from my Honda dealer ----- no complaints from me

[lloeki]

the other day I was thinking like this: peugeot folks always tell how their car works well, and when you remind them they were in for this or that they go on saying "bah this is normal/this is nothing". the other day I was beginning complaining about rattles in my car, and climbed in the new 307 of my parents. gah. creaks everywhere, bad plastics, bad paint, boring driving, dead spots, torque but awful lack of power (diesel). the civic is just a ferrari in comparison. in fact, while I agree that some issues are just unacceptable, the car is so good that any minor issue just seems to undufully stand out.

[jazzman]

Originally Posted by lloeki

the other day I was thinking like this: peugeot folks always tell how their car works well, and when you remind them they were in for this or that they go on saying "bah this is normal/this is nothing". the other day I was beginning complaining about rattles in my car, and climbed in the new 307 of my parents. gah. creaks everywhere, bad plastics, bad paint, boring driving, dead spots, torque but awful lack of power (diesel). the civic is just a ferrari in comparison. in fact, while I agree that some issues are just unacceptable, the car is so good that any minor issue just seems to stand out

Well said and you`ve got the best colour too

[HappyMan]

Originally Posted by lloeki

the other day I was thinking like this: peugeot folks always tell how their car works well, and when you remind them they were in for this or that they go on saying "bah this is normal/this is nothing". the other day I was beginning complaining about rattles in my car, and climbed in the new 307 of my parents. gah. creaks everywhere, bad plastics, bad paint, boring driving, dead spots, torque but awful lack of power (diesel). the civic is just a ferrari in comparison. in fact, while I agree that some issues are just unacceptable, the car is so good that any minor issue just seems to undufully stand out.

Funnily enough I was in a 307 yesterday and even though I didn't drive it I had the same thoughts about everything else and the ride quality was dreadful.

My Civic is miles better and I really can't complain.

[Doubtingthomas]

Originally Posted by HappyMan

What do you think? Have standards slipped or have our expectations grown?

Thank you Happyman. Very thoughtful. Let me please throw my tuppence worth in. I sense the majority of forum members who have responded, in the main, think alike.
In my opinion the crux of the matter lies in the fact that whilst Honda UK solely imported cars from Japan the quality of their products was really excellent. Also when Honda UK was first set up, in the 1960's I think, dealers consisted of small family businesses. Honda priced their products to gain a foothold in the UK market, which they did admirably. Honda offered reliability, quality and better value for money than their rivals in the same categories. Small dealerships really looked after their customers. They were intent in building up their businesses. There was a degree of anti-Japanese sentiment in those days but the reputation of the marque shone through and won many converts.
Import quotas forced Honda to contemplate building cars in the UK and the Swindon factory came about. Unfortunately, although Swindon turned out cars of a higher standard than most of their contemporaries in the UK, they were not up to the standard of Honda imported cars from Japan or even the US.
The problem for Honda UK in my opinion is that on top of all the constraints placed on motor manufacturers in the UK, Honda has to contend with producing a Civic of the same build quality and reliability as those from Japan and the US. Quality control plays an essential role.
A potential new buyer equates Honda with quality and reliability based on the brand's products across the board. Unfortunately the 8th generation Civic is the black sheep of the family. It is a fantastic design, versatile, and economical but the build quality and quality control let it down, sadly.
Dealerships have evolved also and many of the small family businesses have sold out to the 'big boys'. This too unfortunately has led to a deterioration in the customer care and quality of service afforded to Civic owners. There are some very good dealerships, still, but members can relate to very disappointing reports from various forum members.
This trend is reflected alsewhere in this country. Despite all the hype, we all experience a deterioration in customer care these days. Well, my wife and I do. It is a pleasure to experience the opposite which we do from time to time.
Without being morbid I think Happyman's thoughts reflect our everyday thoughts and aspirations. We pay good money for a product and service and we only expect fair play. Many of us realise that goal but many do not.
In a nutshell, standards have slipped but our expectations have not grown.
I will now step down from my soapbox and have a nice cup of tea. Too soon for a G & T

[Cad]

Originally Posted by jazzman

Which is exactly what I receive from a great car and great service from my Honda dealer ----- no complaints from me

I'm amazed that you don't have any problems at all. This must be a first for Honda with the new Civic.. let's hope it continues as they build more of them.

[Cad]

Originally Posted by Doubtingthomas

......

Unfortunately the 8th generation Civic is the black sheep of the family. It is a fantastic design, versatile, and economical but the build quality and quality control let it down, sadly.

Exactly right (except for those sold in Eastbourne apparently).

[jazzman]

Originally Posted by Cad

I'm amazed that you don't have any problems at all. This must be a first for Honda with the new Civic.. let's hope it continues as they build more of them.

Don`t know why you are amazed. I am talking from experience of 8 years good Honda Service over 3 vehicles and regarding my civic not a thing wrong in a year and this is the experience of the 5 civic owners that are local to me.
The problem is generally with most things in life you only hear the bad and very rarely the good which usually far outnumbers the bad. Yes of course people have had problems, this of course happens with all cars especially those in the first year of production but a lesson I learned many years ago is never buy the early one just wait until the bugs are ironed out.

[jazzman]

Originally Posted by Cad

Exactly right (except for those sold in Eastbourne apparently).

Glad to see you keep an unbiased open mind

[Doubtingthomas]

Originally Posted by jazzman

I am talking from experience of 8 years good Honda Service over 3 vehicles and regarding my civic not a thing wrong in a year and this is the experience of the 5 civic owners that are local to me.
The problem is generally with most things in life you only hear the bad and very rarely the good which usually far outnumbers the bad. Yes of course people have had problems, this of course happens with all cars especially those in the first year of production but a lesson I learned many years ago is never buy the early one just wait until the bugs are ironed out.

Fair comment Jazzman. I have had over thirty years experience with Honda Service and apart from one isolated instance, I rate them as exceedingly good. However to the best of my knowledge and belief I cannot recall the earlier imported Civics arriving with 'bugs' that needed ironing out and of the three such cars I bought and owned, from new, none were the subject to a recall.

[alanwalne]

I feel that the 57 plate demos I have had are more solidly constructed with classsier sounding door closing and more positive feeling electric windows than my 56 plate model

I agree that it is that the car is so complete in other ways (drive, space, looks etc) that minor niggles show through more.

[jazzman]

Originally Posted by Doubtingthomas

Fair comment Jazzman. I have had over thirty years experience with Honda Service and apart from one isolated instance, I rate them as exceedingly good. However to the best of my knowledge and belief I cannot recall the earlier imported Civics arriving with 'bugs' that needed ironing out and of the three such cars I bought and owned, from new, none were the subject to a recall.

The previous Civic known for it`s bomb proof reliability still had problems when the early cvt boxes were fitted, problems that were eventually ironed out and are now forgotten. That of course was in the days before forums


The Jazz incredibly reliable as it is, built in China but the very early examples from Japan still had a few niggles now forgotten and so it will be with the spaceship.

[alanwalne]

Originally Posted by jazzman

The previous Civic known for it`s bomb proof reliability still had problems when the early cvt boxes were fitted, problems that were eventually ironed out and are now forgotten. That of course was in the days before forums


The Jazz incredibly reliable as it is, built in China but the very early examples from Japan still had a few niggles now forgotten and so it will be with the spaceship.

Jazzman, unfortunately now with everything on the internet, user forums and search engines, things will not be forgotten as easily.

We must make sure positives are posted too (I know you do!!) as was said earlier, people use the forum more to complain than praise.

[dave525]

10 months of ownership and have to say that the only bad point in my car is an annoying rattle from the dash. Otherwise it has been faultless and my local dealer is the best that I have encountered in 36 years of buying cars, nothing is too much trouble for them and they are the friendliest buch of people that I have ever encountered in a showroom

[jazzman]

Originally Posted by dave525

10 months of ownership and have to say that the only bad point in my car is an annoying rattle from the dash. Otherwise it has been faultless and my local dealer is the best that I have encountered in 36 years of buying cars, nothing is too much trouble for them and they are the friendliest buch of people that I have ever encountered in a showroom

Great to hear and it would be nice if more happy owners made themselves heard

[Wheelchair]

My 2005 Civic (previous shape), has been totally reliable and my dealer faultless. With my upcoming new Civic I am thinking along the lines of should be almost as reliable as my old one, but expecting a few minor faults as the design is very very different from the old one.

Rather have a Honda than any other car though.

[NoNumpty]

Originally Posted by jazzman

Great to hear and it would be nice if more happy owners made themselves heard

I'm a happy owner - only had the car for 1 week though

[Doubtingthomas]

Originally Posted by jazzman

Great to hear and it would be nice if more happy owners made themselves heard

Despite my signature I am a happy bunny

[dave525]

That is the problem, on forums most people will talk about bugs and faults but rarely how happy they are with their car, to a newcomer all they see is the problems, but if you look at the civic satisfaction poll in this forum most are happy with the civic