Our Expectations

HappyMan · 31st May 2008, 11:00

Yesterday I had the misfortune of sitting in a traffic jam for an hour

, which of course means you have more time to think about things than normal

. So I began to think about our expectations of Honda and the Civic and came up with some questions

So I thought I would ask the good people of Civinfo their thoughts too!

1. Do we expect too much from Honda regarding overall 'customer care'?

2. Do we expect too much of the Civic? I mean in quality and in overall standards

3 Are we right to criticise the Civic's build quality for what is an average family(?) car?

4. Are political and environmental pressures leading to a quality 'downturn' for Honda and other manufacturers?

5. Has the influence of the internet made people more aware than ever before of the problems with cars?

6. Are we right to demand ever higher standards from Honda when we buy their cars?

What do you think? Have standards slipped or have our expectations grown?

FWH · 31st May 2008, 11:07

1. No.

2. In some cases maybe, but in others not. It is after all a "reasonably priced" car.

3. Yes. But is it really worse than many others? Probably not.

4. The paint may be partly down to enviromental pressures, but what else?

5. Very much so.

6. Yes. We are the customers.

simon1 · 31st May 2008, 11:34

1. No. Customer CARE should do exactly what it says - care for the customer. You have no customers, you have no business.

2. I don't. I see the Honda brand as one of high quality with a reputation built over many years. I have had a number of comments from friends when I told them I had gotten a Honda who all remarked on how well made they are - and they don't drive them, they are going by reputation! It's right to expect a few niggles, but the build quality should be right up there with high standards of customer care.

3. So far my experience is of a good build quality, but I have only 900 miles on it. From what I have read on this forum, the quality leaves a lot to be desired. I have had two other 'average' family cars, a Peugeot 406 and a Seat Leon, and both had extremely good build quality with almost no problems at all. This is what I expect from any car in this price range. I am critical of any car that falls short of it.

4. Why should it? The paint being blamed on 'green' issues is rubbish. Putting it on a little thicker and protecting it a little more would take care of the high levels of chipping. I see no other ways any car is compromised by current political and environment pressures.

5. Absolutely - a good thing too.

6. With modern build techniques and Honda's reputation - absolutely.

I think the measure of a company is not only how good their product is but how well they deal with it when things go wrong. In Honda's case, that seems to be inconsistent. If (or when) I get a problem, I will expect it to be dealt with quickly and honestly. If not, then Honda have failed.

illegalhunter · 31st May 2008, 12:19

We have the right to trouble free motoring ,& it that means Honda have to produce that .

Sivad · 31st May 2008, 12:44

1 - No, but sadly in this day and age customer service standards are slipping in all areas - I mean I've been told recently I expect too much in respect of a dining room table.....as in one that isn't damaged and fits together perfectly...

2 - No, I've had 5 different models of civic before this one and NEVER had a single problem...can I have been that lucky before? I doubt it.

3 - Hardly average, it's a big investment and you can get a lot cheaper cars....Honda has built it's reputation on quality, this is taking a battering!

4 - Yes, i have a real problem with this though. While the tree huggers will claim a moral victory, I feel the badwagon has been jumped on too readily and Honda (along with other corporations) and they should have tested their "adjustments" to see if they are fit for purpose - while countries like China and India etc keep ignoring the issue is a water based paint going to make any difference?

5 - Yes, no doubt, but this is a good thing...power to the people.....

6 - It's aspirational for the manufacturer and customer.

HappyMan · 31st May 2008, 13:36

Some really good comments - Keep them coming!

Are we asking for premium service for a non premium priced car?

3rd Honda · 31st May 2008, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappyMan

1. Do we expect too much from Honda regarding overall 'customer care'?
No - we should expect and get good customer care

2. Do we expect too much of the Civic? I mean in quality and in overall standards
If it was as good as either of the last two Hondas I've had - there would be no problem. I expect the Civic to keep up the high standard

3 Are we right to criticise the Civic's build quality for what is an average family(?) car?
Yes - it may be an 'average' family car, but Honda did enjoy a reputation for being above average. From my experience the present Civic can be well below 'average'.

4. Are political and environmental pressures leading to a quality 'downturn' for Honda and other manufacturers?
No - I don't think so

5. Has the influence of the internet made people more aware than ever before of the problems with cars?
Probably - but that has to be a good thing for the consumer

6. Are we right to demand ever higher standards from Honda when we buy their cars?
Yes and No ...... I'd be more than happy if it was just 'as good' as either the previous Civic, or the even older Accord I had - but all manufacturers need to keep improving to stay up with 'the pack'.

What do you think? Have standards slipped or have our expectations grown?

My present Civic is nowhere near as good as the previous generation one I had, except possibly in having more gadgets and gizmos, more internal space, much more up to date looks and interior and better economy (diesel rather than petrol). In almost every other respect its not as good.

Topcat · 31st May 2008, 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappyMan

Yesterday I had the misfortune of sitting in a traffic jam for an hour

, which of course means you have more time to think about things than normal

. So I began to think about our expectations of Honda and the Civic and came up with some questions

So I thought I would ask the good people of Civinfo their thoughts too!

1. Do we expect too much from Honda regarding overall 'customer care'?

2. Do we expect too much of the Civic? I mean in quality and in overall standards

3 Are we right to criticise the Civic's build quality for what is an average family(?) car?

4. Are political and environmental pressures leading to a quality 'downturn' for Honda and other manufacturers?

5. Has the influence of the internet made people more aware than ever before of the problems with cars?

6. Are we right to demand ever higher standards from Honda when we buy their cars?

What do you think? Have standards slipped or have our expectations grown?

1. No!! Dont ask stupid questions HM

2. No, Honda have a reputation for building reliable cars and in respect of question one, for having brilliant customer service. I bought the civic based on that reputation and sadly it failed it both areas.

3. Yes of course, it is an expensive "average" car, one or two minor problems maybe allowed but not several.

4. Maybe for Honda but not for Ford the paintwork on my car is fantastic

5. Yes of course as with everything else in the World. but then again my constant driving a courtesy car showed many in my little world that the civic had problems.

6. Yes, Honda should be always looking to improve their standards not reduce them, as should all manufactuers.

Cad · 31st May 2008, 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappyMan

Some really good comments - Keep them coming!

Are we asking for premium service for a non premium priced car?

Honda is, supposedly, building itself into a premium brand, to compete with the likes of BMW. So I think we can say that Honda considers itself a premium brand. Do you not think so?

I'd say that asking for a car that just works, and is built to a high standard is not asking for a 'premium service' though.

FWH · 31st May 2008, 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cad

Honda is, supposedly, building itself into a premium brand, to compete with the likes of BMW. So I think we can say that Honda considers itself a premium brand. Do you not think so?

I disagree. Honda is not a "premium brand" like BMW, Mercedes etc.

Don´t forget that we are still seeing less issues with the Civic than many have seen with Mercedes over the last 10 years.

Cad · 31st May 2008, 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by FWH

I disagree. Honda is not a "premium brand" like BMW, Mercedes etc.

Don´t forget that we are still seeing less issues with the Civic than many have seen with Mercedes over the last 10 years.

I meant do you not think that Honda consider themselves a premium brand. It's quite obvious that they are not.

I didn't buy a Mercedes, so I don't really care how many problems they had, but I guess Honda still have 7+ years to catch them up

Are people, on Civinfo, really saying that we expect(ed) too much from Honda, and from a Honda? How bizzare!

FWH · 31st May 2008, 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cad

I meant do you not think that Honda consider themselves a premium brand.

No, I do not think Honda consider themselves a premium brand.

simon1 · 31st May 2008, 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappyMan

Some really good comments - Keep them coming!

Are we asking for premium service for a non premium priced car?

If I go to Tesco, I expect 'premium' service. If I go to Harrods, I expect the same. By that I mean I expect to have any problems to be sorted quickly and honestly.

Honda does not need to be premium priced to offer 'premium' service. I don't expect to be waited on by a butler in the dealership, but I do expect to have any problem with the car sorted without needing to ask twice.

FWH · 31st May 2008, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon1

If I go to Tesco, I expect 'premium' service. If I go to Harrods, I expect the same. By that I mean I expect to have any problems to be sorted quickly and honestly.

Honda does not need to be premium priced to offer 'premium' service. I don't expect to be waited on by a butler in the dealership, but I do expect to have any problem with the car sorted without needing to ask twice.

Now that i agree with 100%.

Dimplyred · 31st May 2008, 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by FWH

Now that i agree with 100%.

Well said Simon, so do I FWH.

ViBe · 31st May 2008, 18:58

1. Do we expect too much from Honda regarding overall 'customer care'?

No, actually my expectations for Hondas customer care where really low as I have previously owned a Saab 9-5 and Saabs customer care is probably one of the less good I have experienced. So for my part I'm happy with what Honda delivers in this area.

2. Do we expect too much of the Civic? I mean in quality and in overall standards

Maybe, It's not a premium car and it's not priced thereafter either. Having said this my expectations about build quality have just meerely been met by the quality of my Civic. There is room for improovement I think and Honda after all have a history of good quality cars to live up to.

3 Are we right to criticise the Civic's build quality for what is an average family(?) car?

Yes.

4. Are political and environmental pressures leading to a quality 'downturn' for Honda and other manufacturers?

Hard to say as I don't know really what has been sacrificed in the name of the enviroment. The paint does seem to be an issue, but this is something that seems to be a problem with many new cars not just Honda.

5. Has the influence of the internet made people more aware than ever before of the problems with cars?

Yes.

6. Are we right to demand ever higher standards from Honda when we buy their cars?

Yes, production techniques are much more refined today than for just a decade ago. So is the experience of car manufacturers, they should have learned from what works and not in previous models and adapt acordingly.

HappyMan · 31st May 2008, 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon1

If I go to Tesco, I expect 'premium' service. If I go to Harrods, I expect the same. By that I mean I expect to have any problems to be sorted quickly and honestly.

Honda does not need to be premium priced to offer 'premium' service. I don't expect to be waited on by a butler in the dealership, but I do expect to have any problem with the car sorted without needing to ask twice.

That is a fair point and one I agree with.

It seems to me that dealers are not on our side and are more interested in pleasing Honda than us. Personally I think dealers should fight for us more because at the end of the day we buy the car, we are the customer.

terry · 31st May 2008, 21:25

1. Do we expect too much from Honda regarding overall 'customer care'? I have not yet contacted them, however when I do I shall expect a reasonable reply to my questions.

2. Do we expect too much of the Civic? I mean in quality and in overall standards.I expected my car to be pretty well fault free and of reasonable quality. It has not broken down and stranded me so from that point of view it could be said to be fault free, however there are a number of creaks and rattles that the dealer has tried many times to rectify without success, and in my view this car is way worse than many other cars I've owned.

3 Are we right to criticise the Civic's build quality for what is an average family(?) car?
Yes. It may be an average family car, but it is at an above average price compared to similar Ford/Vauxhall cars.

4. Are political and environmental pressures leading to a quality 'downturn' for Honda and other manufacturers? No, it is poor detail design.

5. Has the influence of the internet made people more aware than ever before of the problems with cars? Yes, however now we are not fobbed off with the "that's the first we have heard of" excuse.

6. Are we right to demand ever higher standards from Honda when we buy their cars? All manufacturers are aiming higher, better products and more reliablability.

What I would like is for Honda UK to admit there are problems, and do something about it instead of letting the dealers sort out the problems.

Terry

jazzman · 1st June 2008, 12:54

My civic is now over a year old and has been brilliant as has the Honda Service I have received over the 7 years I have had Honda cars.
Sorry folks I have no complaints at all and I am a perfectly happy customer.

R-2 · 1st June 2008, 21:25

A quality product can be a premium product or a basic one and every grade in between.
If you buy a Bic biro you expect it to work and hopefully not break when you use it. If it does this then it is of a sufficient quality for its function.
If you buy a Mont Blanc pen you would have similar expectations but expect it to be made from better materials.

The civic is a mid range car with more cost constraints than a BMW or Merc for example. So you would expect a less good build quality and/or finish but you would expect it to do its job as a car equally well. (ie sufficient quality for its function).
So we are right to expect complete reliabilty and quality service regardless of price paid.
With a premium marque you would expect build quality etc to surpass what is required for it to function

A bit like the previously mentioned Tesco / Harrods analogy really

31st May 2008, 11:00	#1 (permalink)
HappyMan Super Moderator Civinfo guru Join Date: 16th August 2007 Location: Poland Posts: 2,079 Thanks: 14 Thanked 44 Times in 43 Posts iTrader: (0)	Our Expectations Yesterday I had the misfortune of sitting in a traffic jam for an hour , which of course means you have more time to think about things than normal . So I began to think about our expectations of Honda and the Civic and came up with some questions So I thought I would ask the good people of Civinfo their thoughts too! 1. Do we expect too much from Honda regarding overall 'customer care'? 2. Do we expect too much of the Civic? I mean in quality and in overall standards 3 Are we right to criticise the Civic's build quality for what is an average family(?) car? 4. Are political and environmental pressures leading to a quality 'downturn' for Honda and other manufacturers? 5. Has the influence of the internet made people more aware than ever before of the problems with cars? 6. Are we right to demand ever higher standards from Honda when we buy their cars? What do you think? Have standards slipped or have our expectations grown?

31st May 2008, 13:36	#6 (permalink)
HappyMan Super Moderator Civinfo guru Join Date: 16th August 2007 Location: Poland Posts: 2,079 Thanks: 14 Thanked 44 Times in 43 Posts iTrader: (0)	Some really good comments - Keep them coming! Are we asking for premium service for a non premium priced car? Last edited by HappyMan; 31st May 2008 at 14:32.

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This thread is about: Our Expectations, it's in General Discussion at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; Yesterday I had the misfortune of sitting in a traffic jam for an hour , which of course means you have more time to think ...

31st May 2008, 11:07	#2 (permalink)
FWH Super Moderator Civinfo master Join Date: 3rd June 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 5,346 Thanks: 9 Thanked 48 Times in 43 Posts iTrader: (0)	1. No. 2. In some cases maybe, but in others not. It is after all a "reasonably priced" car. 3. Yes. But is it really worse than many others? Probably not. 4. The paint may be partly down to enviromental pressures, but what else? 5. Very much so. 6. Yes. We are the customers.

31st May 2008, 11:34	#3 (permalink)
simon1 Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 10th December 2007 Location: UK Posts: 279 Thanks: 3 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts iTrader: (0)	1. No. Customer CARE should do exactly what it says - care for the customer. You have no customers, you have no business. 2. I don't. I see the Honda brand as one of high quality with a reputation built over many years. I have had a number of comments from friends when I told them I had gotten a Honda who all remarked on how well made they are - and they don't drive them, they are going by reputation! It's right to expect a few niggles, but the build quality should be right up there with high standards of customer care. 3. So far my experience is of a good build quality, but I have only 900 miles on it. From what I have read on this forum, the quality leaves a lot to be desired. I have had two other 'average' family cars, a Peugeot 406 and a Seat Leon, and both had extremely good build quality with almost no problems at all. This is what I expect from any car in this price range. I am critical of any car that falls short of it. 4. Why should it? The paint being blamed on 'green' issues is rubbish. Putting it on a little thicker and protecting it a little more would take care of the high levels of chipping. I see no other ways any car is compromised by current political and environment pressures. 5. Absolutely - a good thing too. 6. With modern build techniques and Honda's reputation - absolutely. I think the measure of a company is not only how good their product is but how well they deal with it when things go wrong. In Honda's case, that seems to be inconsistent. If (or when) I get a problem, I will expect it to be dealt with quickly and honestly. If not, then Honda have failed.

31st May 2008, 12:19	#4 (permalink)
illegalhunter HACKIN & SLAYIN Civinfo guru Join Date: 10th May 2007 Location: In the woods armed to the teeth Posts: 2,571 Thanks: 4 Thanked 29 Times in 28 Posts iTrader: (0)	We have the right to trouble free motoring ,& it that means Honda have to produce that .

31st May 2008, 12:44	#5 (permalink)
Sivad Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 7th April 2008 Location: Tyne and Wear UK Posts: 119 Thanks: 4 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	1 - No, but sadly in this day and age customer service standards are slipping in all areas - I mean I've been told recently I expect too much in respect of a dining room table.....as in one that isn't damaged and fits together perfectly... 2 - No, I've had 5 different models of civic before this one and NEVER had a single problem...can I have been that lucky before? I doubt it. 3 - Hardly average, it's a big investment and you can get a lot cheaper cars....Honda has built it's reputation on quality, this is taking a battering! 4 - Yes, i have a real problem with this though. While the tree huggers will claim a moral victory, I feel the badwagon has been jumped on too readily and Honda (along with other corporations) and they should have tested their "adjustments" to see if they are fit for purpose - while countries like China and India etc keep ignoring the issue is a water based paint going to make any difference? 5 - Yes, no doubt, but this is a good thing...power to the people..... 6 - It's aspirational for the manufacturer and customer.

31st May 2008, 18:58	#16 (permalink)
ViBe Supporter Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 20th May 2008 Location: Göteborg, Sweden Posts: 117 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	1. Do we expect too much from Honda regarding overall 'customer care'? No, actually my expectations for Hondas customer care where really low as I have previously owned a Saab 9-5 and Saabs customer care is probably one of the less good I have experienced. So for my part I'm happy with what Honda delivers in this area. 2. Do we expect too much of the Civic? I mean in quality and in overall standards Maybe, It's not a premium car and it's not priced thereafter either. Having said this my expectations about build quality have just meerely been met by the quality of my Civic. There is room for improovement I think and Honda after all have a history of good quality cars to live up to. 3 Are we right to criticise the Civic's build quality for what is an average family(?) car? Yes. 4. Are political and environmental pressures leading to a quality 'downturn' for Honda and other manufacturers? Hard to say as I don't know really what has been sacrificed in the name of the enviroment. The paint does seem to be an issue, but this is something that seems to be a problem with many new cars not just Honda. 5. Has the influence of the internet made people more aware than ever before of the problems with cars? Yes. 6. Are we right to demand ever higher standards from Honda when we buy their cars? Yes, production techniques are much more refined today than for just a decade ago. So is the experience of car manufacturers, they should have learned from what works and not in previous models and adapt acordingly.

31st May 2008, 21:25	#18 (permalink)
terry Supporter Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 24th September 2006 Location: Cambridge Posts: 330 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	1. Do we expect too much from Honda regarding overall 'customer care'? I have not yet contacted them, however when I do I shall expect a reasonable reply to my questions. 2. Do we expect too much of the Civic? I mean in quality and in overall standards.I expected my car to be pretty well fault free and of reasonable quality. It has not broken down and stranded me so from that point of view it could be said to be fault free, however there are a number of creaks and rattles that the dealer has tried many times to rectify without success, and in my view this car is way worse than many other cars I've owned. 3 Are we right to criticise the Civic's build quality for what is an average family(?) car? Yes. It may be an average family car, but it is at an above average price compared to similar Ford/Vauxhall cars. 4. Are political and environmental pressures leading to a quality 'downturn' for Honda and other manufacturers? No, it is poor detail design. 5. Has the influence of the internet made people more aware than ever before of the problems with cars? Yes, however now we are not fobbed off with the "that's the first we have heard of" excuse. 6. Are we right to demand ever higher standards from Honda when we buy their cars? All manufacturers are aiming higher, better products and more reliablability. What I would like is for Honda UK to admit there are problems, and do something about it instead of letting the dealers sort out the problems. Terry

1st June 2008, 12:54	#19 (permalink)
jazzman Supporter Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 19th March 2007 Location: EASTBOURNE Posts: 694 Thanks: 1 Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts iTrader: (0)	My civic is now over a year old and has been brilliant as has the Honda Service I have received over the 7 years I have had Honda cars. Sorry folks I have no complaints at all and I am a perfectly happy customer.

1st June 2008, 21:25	#20 (permalink)
R-2 R-10581 Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 1st October 2007 Location: Worcestershire Posts: 524 Thanks: 14 Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts iTrader: (0)	A quality product can be a premium product or a basic one and every grade in between. If you buy a Bic biro you expect it to work and hopefully not break when you use it. If it does this then it is of a sufficient quality for its function. If you buy a Mont Blanc pen you would have similar expectations but expect it to be made from better materials. The civic is a mid range car with more cost constraints than a BMW or Merc for example. So you would expect a less good build quality and/or finish but you would expect it to do its job as a car equally well. (ie sufficient quality for its function). So we are right to expect complete reliabilty and quality service regardless of price paid. With a premium marque you would expect build quality etc to surpass what is required for it to function A bit like the previously mentioned Tesco / Harrods analogy really