NCAP Rating now available - Only 4*

[The Great Soprendo]

Originally Posted by Hartside

Not convinced. Newtons second law is "net" Force, which takes into account all forces acting on a body. Extra frictional force due to the increased tyre footprint from the heavier weight would see the diesel stopping quicker, athough it would be very marginal

I'm a magician, not a physist . Who knows for sure, but I think the effect of extra footprint helping it to stop quicker would be less than the negative impact of the extra weight. It would probably also depend on the road conditions: on a dry road the tyres might not get to slipping point anyway under emergency braking regardless of the difference in footprint. One thing I am convinced of is that we're probably splitting hairs.

My original thought was actually more about what happens to the engine in a collision...you'd think that the diesel might on the one hand provide more protection if it is mounted more solidly (I don't know that it is, however) and is of a stronger construction generally (which is normally the case with diesel engines), but on the other hand might cause bigger problems if it was to move during a collision, being heavier.

[pcr]

This is like failing an exam when you know the questions in advance. Sorry to say that this leaves me with a strong feeling that the safety aspects of the Civic have been misrepresented.

[jayt43]

According to the blurb, Honda's state of the art crash testing facility is staffed by 300 safety engineers.

I deduce, therefore, that some of them were having a crafty fag behind the bike sheds when the Civ was first being tested

[skam]

Originally Posted by WoolyCiv

Just been reading (and not able to fully understand all the technicalities) the Euro NCAP Front Impact Testing Protocol (http://www.euroncap.com/downloads/test_procedures/area_3/event_2/EuroNCAP%20Frontal%20Protocol%204.1.pdf) and have the following observation about the missing 5th star for the Civic:

The civic failed due to the intrusion of the accelerator by 106mm exceeding the limit by 6 mm (If I remember correctly) which is approximately 1/4 inch. The specification quite rightly states the forward/aft position of the drivers seat, the rake of the seat back etc to enable comparisons to be made. Remember the failure was due to the accelerator intruding more then 100mm, I personally tend to drive with the drivers seat quite far back and my legs more stretched out than a lot of other drivers so that 6mm would imagine have less effect in the event of an accident than if I drove with the seat closer to the dash and conversely if the seat was closer with my legs at a different angle more of an effect.

it was 18 mm almost 2cm...no 6mm...sorry my friend but i think that it is a "cheap" excuse if we say that driving as far as possible for the acceleration pedal makes our car safer...They use the same distance in all the rivals and they scored 5 stars...My opinion is that civic is a safe car with marginal danger of injury in case of a crash and of course I AM PROUD about it. There is something i can't understand...They produced the hatchback only for European market...they knew that it would have to take the NCAP test...I can't understand how they didn't make the necessary moves needed to score 5 stars...Don't forget that the civic is the car that in 30 years has the 30% of total sales for Honda. They should be more careful about it...My only worry is the following...imagine that in order to pass the Euroncap test they make a facelift and then our brand new cars become last generation ones... That would make me feel really sad

[Copycat]

I think they did exactly that. Re-produce NCAP test crashes in their own testing facility. Whoever it was that presented their test results at a meeting must be feeling a bit queezy at the moment.

Off-topic ramblings:

Wow, I didn't know we could drag n' drop smilies from posts into this "Quick Reply" field.

[richierich]

Oh yeah

[Nice]

Just read this report with interest especially the part that states Honda dealers can disconnect the passenger airbag to allow rearward facing childseats to be fitted in the front.
We have not seen any communication from Honda on this point and will certainly not be offering this service ( if indeed it exists ). This point ( an important one) does seem to cast a bit of doubt in my mind about the credibility if this report.

[Myago]

http://hondacivic.forumfree.net/?t=12248371

Horror

[basegreen]

Originally Posted by Myago

http://hondacivic.forumfree.net/?t=12248371

Horror

Do explain?

[richierich]

Thie first bit is on about hitting a bumper going over a bump in a square somewhere, struggling with relevance....

[Myago]

Sorry, but I do not speak English.
I was parking and I have hit the sidewalk, I do not have broken the bumper but the chassis has been folded!!!

[richierich]

Aaah, would 5* have stopped this do you think?

[Honcho]

Maybe people are getting unnecessarily upset at the really tiny extra risk represented in that lost star.(Especially if they ignore the huge risk of smoking, for instance!) But it's annoying that inferior cars score higher, I agree. Incidentally, I wonder what the equivalent effect would be for a passenger aircraft not achieving the top standard. I can't believe they all have identical safety ratings. Pottsy?

[jayt43]

I'd wager that crash testing aircraft is a tad expensive. Especially as you need two for a frontal offset collision

[Pottsy]

Honcho, all passenger aircraft are of the same safety standard. In aviation the emphasis is on not crashing in the first place, whereas because cars are thousands of times less safe then there has to be an emphasis on safety in a crash.

I suspect that Myago would have had to hit a curb pretty hard to bend the shell, but then again modern crash testing and design is all about getting the car to rapidly deform around a secure passenger area so I wonder if this readiness to deform has caused this. In other words, the higher the stars the greater the likelihood of having major damage in a minor bump. How ironic!

[Korkut Varol]

Originally Posted by Pottsy

I suspect that Myago would have had to hit a curb pretty hard to bend the shell, but then again modern crash testing and design is all about getting the car to rapidly deform around a secure passenger area so I wonder if this readiness to deform has caused this. In other words, the higher the stars the greater the likelihood of having major damage in a minor bump. How ironic!

I think the same way...
The bodyshell frame has to take up all the forces and moments. Mine does not have the glass roof, and the metal feels soooo thin and weak, even when washing with a sponge... But actually (as I perceive), it is there to cover the opening instead of the glass choice and in no ways contributing to the shell rigidity. Elements, either shell or frame that are outside the passenger compartment shell, are designed for absorbing forces by crushing, before the forces start bending the passenger compartment shell.

However, the only thing I don't like there is that, the currently bent part could be fixed to the main chassis frame by bolts; whereas, as I see from the photos, is welded. I understand that we have to be very careful when approaching kerbs or "stopper pipes" (if I can mean what I think..) in parking places.

[WoolyCiv]

Originally Posted by jayt43

I'd wager that crash testing aircraft is a tad expensive. Especially as you need two for a frontal offset collision

What's a landing other than a controlled crash?

[TTDegs]

Originally Posted by WoolyCiv

What's a landing other than a controlled crash?

note to self:

check pilot's name before flying



back to the stars - personally I'm happy with the narrow margin that we missed out by.

the extra 7mm (or whatever it was) that the pedal moved?
What do you recon the chances are of that actually making a significant difference in the case of (gawd forbid) a crash?

obviously they have to set a limit somewhere - x movement = 1 star, y movement = 2 stars etc, but I'm not going to loose a lot of sleep over it.

though I can certainly understand those people who are less than happy.

[czechplastik]

Its not so much the score, i mean 3*'s would have been very disappointing, its just with all the fuss they made over it, seems like a let down, particularly for the family folk.

[Gweneira]

Perhaps they should test a car that has had all the mod's done. All that honda magic foam should give good padding in the event of a crash!