What makes a Fn2(2011) civic a Type R? - Civinfo

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post #1 of 42 (permalink) Old 19th March 2017, 22:17 Thread Starter
 
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What makes a Fn2(2011) civic a Type R?

I have just purchased a 2011 Civic for my wife as we had to get a 5 door family car (starting a family etc). Anyway, she has had to sell her JCW mini, and we didn't really want to have to get anything slower, just more practical.

So I have just come back from a dealership and paid a deposit on a really tidy 2011 Civic, one owner from new and also has an almost Type R style factory fitted body kit /trim. It has immaculate Honda black 17" wheels, as well as a faultless body.

So my plan all along was to purchase a a 1.8vtec then upgrade it to make it a 5 door type R (or better).

So with regards to the engine, that's fairly self explanatory, for the engine bay I plan the following... Pickup a second hand type R engine and gearbox, then rebuild both of these, probably with some spoon parts, forged rods and pistons etc, new cams all that jazz. New Mount's, hoses, ecu etc.

So engine bay is fairly easy and self explanatory. Now, the rest of the car is where I am not to sure.

On the type R, does it have different front struts? I'm presuming the springs may be different, but as far as the struts, hubs and brake callipers, they all appear to be the same. I already have my eye on the spoon 4 pot front and rear callipers, but then my next question was, does the type R have a different master cylinder, or is it the same on both models?

Hopefully this makes sense, so what else other than the engine, gearbox and bushes are different on the type R compared to the 1.8 vtec. I want to start with the suspension and brakes first (obviously) then move onto the engine bay, as the engine strip down/build I can do out of the car in the workshop, whilst the 1.8 is still in the car.

Thanks.

PS, I know this is a really expensive way of achieving a fun/fast 5 door family car, but I've never done standard and this car is more of my baby than hers.

Im not a mechanic by trade, but I have done full rebuilds before, complete car, gearbox, engine etc, so know my way around and also know what I want! I've been given free range to do what I want, other than a full cage.

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post #2 of 42 (permalink) Old 19th March 2017, 22:23
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I can think of one major issue you'll have - the top mount holes are smaller on the 1.8, so stock CTR struts will not fit. That's going to be a problem that will be hard to overcome.

However, they are the same size on the 2.2. So perhaps look into that?
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post #3 of 42 (permalink) Old 19th March 2017, 22:25
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Won't you also need a Type R ECU and maybe an engine sub loom?
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post #4 of 42 (permalink) Old 19th March 2017, 22:26
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^that too. Engine management is very different on the K20.
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post #5 of 42 (permalink) Old 19th March 2017, 22:31 Thread Starter
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Yea I didn't go into full detail, but I meant the ecu, loom and also associated parts needed for new engine and gearbox.

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post #6 of 42 (permalink) Old 19th March 2017, 22:38
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Good luck with that, cheaper just to buy one
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post #7 of 42 (permalink) Old 19th March 2017, 22:43 Thread Starter
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Good luck with that, cheaper just to buy one
Even if I purchased a a type R, I couldn't build the engine as I wanted, and I would have to take it out to do so, meaning it would be off the road.

Only the new Type Rs come 5 door, and for something that's going to become a track car, buying a new car, just isn't worth the money (imo) cars are a hobby to me, and this way I get the best of both worlds.

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post #8 of 42 (permalink) Old 19th March 2017, 22:53
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Okay, good to see that you've covered the ECU/etc.

You'd be wise to upgrade the brakes too. Civic Type R fro the calipers at minimum but even then they aren't great. Accord Type R calipers or the later Accord Type S would be a big improvement, albeit heavy.

Will you be abe to re register the vehicle with the different engine or will it need Type Approval?

You'll also need to factor in the mod's with the insurance.
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post #9 of 42 (permalink) Old 19th March 2017, 23:19 Thread Starter
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As said in the original post, I did question the callipers and looked at some 4 piston setups. Do the accord type R callipers drop into the same mounts as the civic? If the master cylinder/servo is also better I might look at an accord one also.

I'll register all changes with dvla and Declare all on insurance, no problem. (Adrian flux are great for this).

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post #10 of 42 (permalink) Old 19th March 2017, 23:32
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post #11 of 42 (permalink) Old 19th March 2017, 23:47
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Yes, the ATR or ATS calipers bolt straight onto the hubs provided you use the carriers from the replacement calipers. At least they did on the 2.2 hubs, check the 1.8 spacing bolts are the same. Or maybe someone will chime in and confirm?

The Accord anchors are twin pot but have much larger calipers on larger disks and are great for fast road use.

I'm fairly sure AF will sort you out for insurance, good call.
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post #12 of 42 (permalink) Old 21st March 2017, 08:52
 
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make sure you get a receipt for the engine so that you can prove it's a genuine engine to the DVLA - they are getting a bit keener on it. Either that or you need a letter from a garage saying it's all OK - easy if you have a friendly local. I went the friendly garage route when I changed the engine in my MG Midget.
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post #13 of 42 (permalink) Old 21st March 2017, 14:16 Thread Starter
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make sure you get a receipt for the engine so that you can prove it's a genuine engine to the DVLA - they are getting a bit keener on it. Either that or you need a letter from a garage saying it's all OK - easy if you have a friendly local. I went the friendly garage route when I changed the engine in my MG Midget.
For insurance it might be cheaper after the engine build to take it for a SVA, but I'll assess that at the time. Good point though.

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post #14 of 42 (permalink) Old 21st March 2017, 16:09
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Jeez. There must be a more logical solution! I can see this being a project that will cost loads and you may give up on! What exactly is the criteria again? 5 doors and you want it good on track ? How about an FD2? It's got the doors and slightly better than the FN2 in a number of ways. It handles a bit better, comes with brembos, it's a bit faster and lighter. I think only the interior is not quite as good, not that it's bad. Also it holds its value well


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post #15 of 42 (permalink) Old 21st March 2017, 16:14
more torque than the mrs
 
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going to cost you a lot of pennies for the conversion, have you considered putting a turbo on the 1.8 instead will probably be around the same costs but it will give you 260bhp 60 more bhp than the R..
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post #16 of 42 (permalink) Old 22nd March 2017, 08:59
 
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For insurance it might be cheaper after the engine build to take it for a SVA, but I'll assess that at the time. Good point though.
It won't need an SVA (BIVA now) as you'll not have 'lost' enough points from the DVLA system - you'll not have modified the monocoque either. I'd stay well clear of that because if you do get it IVA tested there are some very odd things you'll have to do (rubber caps on suspension bolts, set minimum radius on all dash parts and so on). Also, you may end up with a Q plate (but possibly not as it wouldn't be 'radically altered')

With regards insurance - check first. Not much point in building something awesome that can't be insured... Most places are happy to talk to you if you ring up with a "I'm thinking of XYZ" question. If they are not then it's not worth it. Mine now know it's me and the last time I rang up the nice lady said "Oh, what have you done now?"
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post #17 of 42 (permalink) Old 22nd March 2017, 09:06 Thread Starter
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It won't need an SVA (BIVA now) as you'll not have 'lost' enough points from the DVLA system - you'll not have modified the monocoque either. I'd stay well clear of that because if you do get it IVA tested there are some very odd things you'll have to do (rubber caps on suspension bolts, set minimum radius on all dash parts and so on). Also, you may end up with a Q plate (but possibly not as it wouldn't be 'radically altered')

With regards insurance - check first. Not much point in building something awesome that can't be insured... Most places are happy to talk to you if you ring up with a "I'm thinking of XYZ" question. If they are not then it's not worth it. Mine now know it's me and the last time I rang up the nice lady said "Oh, what have you done now?"
Thanks, I've used flux before when I did an engine and suspension swap on a 106, did an engine swap with bike bodies, wasn't a problem then and that was when I was a lot younger! I have no problem with the insurance side of things, was just deciding what route to take.

I need to weld in extra brackets for the type r engine, so hence my thoughts on an SVA, but that's a while away. For now I'm going to start the brakes and suspension keep the engine bay stock until I can find an engine and gearbox then source parts, then rebuild.

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post #18 of 42 (permalink) Old 22nd March 2017, 09:41
250bhp.... finally :)
 
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My K20 may come up next year once I get the K24 built up
And k20crank has a spare box too.

GUR is your guy however as he's done the conversion.
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post #19 of 42 (permalink) Old 22nd March 2017, 10:05
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post #20 of 42 (permalink) Old 22nd March 2017, 19:09
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Why not buy a Type R and fit five seats? Job done.
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