5th Gear...Honda CRZ v VW Scirocco

michael3011 · 22nd July 2010, 19:39

Anyone watch the 5th gear comparison and road test?
Fifth gear seemed to love it...If only I could afford one

I love both cars!

My dad had a few Scirocco's back in the 80's and was devestated when he sat in the new one and didn't find it to his liking!

0507448n · 22nd July 2010, 20:14

Just seen it. I think the crz does look good but thats about it. The whole hybrid sportiness is a load of BS. Look at the new lotus elise. I know its super expensive for a toy car but its probably stunning to drive yet very economical. Also, some super clean diesels will embarass the crz. For example, the BMW 118d or even the BMW 120d. Both will do 60 ish MPG, alot quick, probably better to drive and built quality to go along with it.

All the driving modes are such a gimmick. Why cant it be just a simple car where you get in and drive it that puts a big smile on your face but wouldnt blow a hole through your wallet.

And it seems like Honda is taking the eco route very seriously. Can you image a hybrid type-r

The planet doesnt need saving, but more fun please!

michael3011 · 22nd July 2010, 20:21

I am sure I saw somewhere that the new CRZ...usually exempt from the London Congestion Charge....is no longer exempt...if thats the case...they're buggered!

The Civic is a simple A-B car

Kremmen · 23rd July 2010, 06:41

I thought the CRZ was over the magic 99 Co2 figure and was no longer exempt as well.

I'm surprised VBH liked it as the performance figures don't match the sporty looks. Mind you, never did the Triumph Spitfire either!

Orschild · 23rd July 2010, 08:11

CR-Z = 117 g/km

zip it · 23rd July 2010, 08:22

Really like the CRZ, seen a few on the road and there was one on display in our shopping centre last weekend. Problem is the one on display was £25,000, I mean come on, 25 big ones for that and you're not far off a Scirocco R if that's your thing

Me, well I'll stick with the 123d Coupe

DeanFYoung · 23rd July 2010, 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0507448n

The planet doesnt need saving, but more fun please!

(Slightly off topic but...)
The planet does need saving...there is very clear evidence for that now...

Alsone · 23rd July 2010, 09:37

I have to agree with most of the posts above. The CRZ has so much potential but its let down by its performance. I'm all for being green but it has to be achieved without compromising the performance of vehicles.

If Honda go down the green route at the expense of performance then my current Civic will be my 1st and last Honda!!

robbo51 · 23rd July 2010, 09:53

I'm afraid that car manufacturers world wide are being forced into the Hybrid route by governments and sorry to say, for most its an econimical route rather than a performance one.
In this 'PC' correct world, one can get performance hybrids (Lexus has one), but there arnt many around...Its just not economically viable to produce them in mass market/affordable numbers.
So. We are stuck until Hydrogen cars arrive in 20 years time
Alsone...This could well be your last Civic!!

michael3011 · 23rd July 2010, 10:40

Yeah Lexus do seem to be investing some money in the Hybrid Department (forced of not). My Old Man is lurking around the idea of the RX's! After having a Discovery for 6 months he decided to opt out of the young cars and something for him to retire in!

Dr_D · 23rd July 2010, 12:04

Well, if Honda start making more boring cars... I'm gonna definately go for the last car on my "sensible" wish list, and screw the planet et al... SKYLINE for me!!!!!

Either that, or I will start to mod the civic to be a proper sleeper... just don't think the 5.7 chevy engine will fit... lol

Relic · 23rd July 2010, 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_D

Well, if Honda start making more boring cars... I'm gonna definately go for the last car on my "sensible" wish list, and screw the planet et al... SKYLINE for me!!!!!

Either that, or I will start to mod the civic to be a proper sleeper... just don't think the 5.7 chevy engine will fit... lol

Lots of boot space

Guitaralmond · 23rd July 2010, 13:42

I drove the CRZ to find it a more pleasent and sporty drive than my 225BHP tuned Type R, I also have the full suspension geometry set up.

Youre wrong on it not being sporty, it knocks spots off my car in terms of feel.. Obviously its nowhere near as fast but in terms of being a complete car 120bhp is plenty, it feels great!

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0507448n

Just seen it. I think the crz does look good but thats about it. The whole hybrid sportiness is a load of BS. Look at the new lotus elise. I know its super expensive for a toy car but its probably stunning to drive yet very economical. Also, some super clean diesels will embarass the crz. For example, the BMW 118d or even the BMW 120d. Both will do 60 ish MPG, alot quick, probably better to drive and built quality to go along with it.

All the driving modes are such a gimmick. Why cant it be just a simple car where you get in and drive it that puts a big smile on your face but wouldnt blow a hole through your wallet.

And it seems like Honda is taking the eco route very seriously. Can you image a hybrid type-r

The planet doesnt need saving, but more fun please!

J. Derek Riddell · 23rd July 2010, 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeanFYoung

(Slightly off topic but...) The planet does need saving...there is very clear evidence for that now...

Well definitely off-topic (mind you, plenty of scope for a good argument), in the 'Any non Civic chat here please! section' !!! ...

In any case - if the planet did need saved from nasty evil hydrocabon burning - and I don't believe it for a second - hybrid (or pure electric cars) would change nothing measurable ...

The big consumers aren't cars - it's ships \ planes \ trains \ trucks \ buses \ power stations - 1 'ULCC' alone burns incredible amounts of fuel per mile, and it's normally "bunker oil" - thick (needs to be heated before it will flow through a fuel system), and generates incredible amounts of particulate and NOx etc. ...

As far as I can see, a hydrid or an electric car (inc. the CRZ), just make the owner suffer from an overwhelming sense of smugness ...

Unfortunately, the ever more severe emissions laws, are forcing more and more car manufacturers down the hybrid route - the next 'step-up' in the Euro regs will make the CTR and the i-CDTI engines illegal in new cars ! ...

Opposition · 23rd July 2010, 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeanFYoung

(Slightly off topic but...)
The planet does need saving...there is very clear evidence for that now...

Dont think Honda need to save the planet more than its doing now.

Why are Honda and Toyota really pushing to make an effort, while other big manucatures like BMW, Audi, Mercedes are pushing 3.0 L + engines all the time. Not to mention 6 - 12 cylinders. Also American cars are the same. Honda and Toyota cars are a margin of the worlds car. And if only 2 car brand does this, what good is it?

Honda is turning into greenpeace drivers car.

Dr_D · 23rd July 2010, 19:24

I like the CRZ for its looks, and it probably drives pretty nice... but 25 clams for a small coupe... sorry, I'd rather buy something a little more "interesting" with me cash (and save a load in the process... hello Skyline or Stagea).... its purely because I'm skeptical to the whole eco-warrior thing (and I work for a power company!)

Purely electric cars, they shove pollution back to the worst of all - the power station - you see this in ordinary cars - if you use your aircon, notice how the revs drop and the power seems a little less... more drag from the alternator to power the system (granted, a lot of it is also for the drive pump which isn't always electric) - Also if you watched 5th gears report on this, it takes forever to get from Newcastle to London (3 days or so... btw 5th gear is back on Discovery Turbo 10pm Weds!)

Hybrids... nice idea, but crap in practice.... to get the batteries in, and most of the gubbins, you need a pretty big car... if you put in a small car (like the crz) its wasted... imagine what they could do if they chucked all the batteries and electrical gunk and just chucked in a decent 1.6 or 1.8... they'd still get low emissions and a bit more poke.... maybe I'm missing something there...?

Watched a program yonks ago that had David Attenborough (he's the Murray Walker of nature to me) - he said that all this ozone lark was a load of cobblers, and so did a few eminent yank scientists...

Me... I think its because we're TOLD by the press (who're controlled by the MAF... sorry, I meant GOVERNMENT) and its a sure fire way to get us morons to pay out more for something we don't actually need or want (hello DIGITAL TV!!!!)

... ahh, rant over.... .... lol

J. Derek Riddell · 23rd July 2010, 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_D

... ahh, rant over.... .... lol

Well, it is however an interesting topic - for example, go to YouTube and look for stuff by "Lord Monckton" - also look for a web-site called 'Climate Defense' - a good start ...

They make it very clear that - in their (and many others) opinions - Hybrid \ Electric cars are just another form of getting the public used to being controlled ...

As you wrote, the total emissions \ impact on the planet (infitesimal though it is) - would be lower with a good high-performance 1.6 \ 1.8 lean burn petrol engine ! ...

Orschild · 23rd July 2010, 20:21

One problem with hybrids though, is that it is all powered by fossil fuels. Sure has a lower consumption, but it still powered by fossil fuels alone. So hybrids are not that much better than the ordinary petrol cars and will in the end not save the planet.

Plug-in hybrids will have the possibility to be re-charged using green electricity, but there is not green electricity to power an entire fleet of vehicles.

J. Derek Riddell · 23rd July 2010, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orschild

One problem with hybrids though, is that it is all powered by fossil fuels. Sure has a lower consumption, but it still powered by fossil fuels alone. So hybrids are not that much better than the ordinary petrol cars and will in the end not save the planet. Plug-in hybrids will have the possibility to be re-charged using green electricity, but there is not green electricity to power an entire fleet of vehicles.

Exactly - many European countries are facing an electrical power deficit very soon - 'green' or otherwise ...

Norway has a lot of Hydro-Electric generating capacity, but there are very few available new sites - the State doesn't like the idea of gas-fired generating capacity (despite Norway producing a zillion cubic feet of gas a year) - and they refuse to countenance nuclear-powered generating stations ! ...

So, in Winter, what happens ? - we import electricity generated in seasonal Danish brown-coal (lignite) stations and from the plethora of French nuclear stations - go figure ! ...

I was heartened to see that Sweden has just rescinded its moratorium on new nuclear stations ! - if fossil fuels are running out, what else is a viable alternative ? - wind turbines or solar ? - in Scandinavian winters !!! ...

coste1l · 23rd July 2010, 21:44

dont kid yourself over green energy people want it but wont pay the price it costs to produce, electricity in the main comes from coal fired power stations there is quite a percentage comes from edf nuclear and that will increase now they have bought british energy, most people will agree nuclear power is the best answer but they wont live next to a nuclear power station...... for me a 123d with the same amount of tinkering my civic has had/will shortly have will be both frugal and brutal

22nd July 2010, 19:39	#1 (permalink)
michael3011 Supporter Car: 2006 1.8 5 Door Royal Blue! Join Date: 17th April 2010 Location: Oldham, UK Posts: 1,455 Thanks given: 43 Thanked 77 Times in 72 Posts iTrader: (5)	5th Gear...Honda CRZ v VW Scirocco Anyone watch the 5th gear comparison and road test? Fifth gear seemed to love it...If only I could afford one I love both cars! My dad had a few Scirocco's back in the 80's and was devestated when he sat in the new one and didn't find it to his liking!

23rd July 2010, 09:53	#9 (permalink)
robbo51 Civinfo Trader Join Date: 1st July 2007 Location: Bingley, West Yorks Posts: 15,412 Thanks given: 1,100 Thanked 1,477 Times in 1,361 Posts iTrader: (8)	I'm afraid that car manufacturers world wide are being forced into the Hybrid route by governments and sorry to say, for most its an econimical route rather than a performance one. In this 'PC' correct world, one can get performance hybrids (Lexus has one), but there arnt many around...Its just not economically viable to produce them in mass market/affordable numbers. So. We are stuck until Hydrogen cars arrive in 20 years time Alsone...This could well be your last Civic!! Last edited by robbo51; 23rd July 2010 at 09:55.

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22nd July 2010, 20:14	#2 (permalink)
0507448n The quest for perfection! Join Date: 24th September 2008 Location: Ayrshire Posts: 666 Thanks given: 11 Thanked 26 Times in 26 Posts iTrader: (4)	Just seen it. I think the crz does look good but thats about it. The whole hybrid sportiness is a load of BS. Look at the new lotus elise. I know its super expensive for a toy car but its probably stunning to drive yet very economical. Also, some super clean diesels will embarass the crz. For example, the BMW 118d or even the BMW 120d. Both will do 60 ish MPG, alot quick, probably better to drive and built quality to go along with it. All the driving modes are such a gimmick. Why cant it be just a simple car where you get in and drive it that puts a big smile on your face but wouldnt blow a hole through your wallet. And it seems like Honda is taking the eco route very seriously. Can you image a hybrid type-r The planet doesnt need saving, but more fun please!

22nd July 2010, 20:21	#3 (permalink)
michael3011 Supporter Thread starter Car: 2006 1.8 5 Door Royal Blue! Join Date: 17th April 2010 Location: Oldham, UK Posts: 1,455 Thanks given: 43 Thanked 77 Times in 72 Posts iTrader: (5)	I am sure I saw somewhere that the new CRZ...usually exempt from the London Congestion Charge....is no longer exempt...if thats the case...they're buggered! The Civic is a simple A-B car

23rd July 2010, 06:41	#4 (permalink)
Kremmen Super Moderator Car: MY13 1.8 EX Auto Join Date: 7th January 2007 Location: West London Posts: 6,937 Thanks given: 186 Thanked 243 Times in 216 Posts iTrader: (0)	I thought the CRZ was over the magic 99 Co2 figure and was no longer exempt as well. I'm surprised VBH liked it as the performance figures don't match the sporty looks. Mind you, never did the Triumph Spitfire either!

23rd July 2010, 08:11	#5 (permalink)
Orschild Supporter Car: 2008 1.8 5D SE, Galaxy Grey Join Date: 7th January 2008 Location: Sweden Posts: 789 Thanks given: 44 Thanked 34 Times in 31 Posts iTrader: (0)	CR-Z = 117 g/km

23rd July 2010, 08:22	#6 (permalink)
zip it Join Date: 12th January 2010 Location: Basingstoke Posts: 67 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts iTrader: (1)	Really like the CRZ, seen a few on the road and there was one on display in our shopping centre last weekend. Problem is the one on display was £25,000, I mean come on, 25 big ones for that and you're not far off a Scirocco R if that's your thing Me, well I'll stick with the 123d Coupe

23rd July 2010, 09:37	#8 (permalink)
Alsone Supporter Car: 2008 1.8 GT Type S Join Date: 14th May 2010 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 1,525 Thanks given: 48 Thanked 90 Times in 86 Posts iTrader: (2)	I have to agree with most of the posts above. The CRZ has so much potential but its let down by its performance. I'm all for being green but it has to be achieved without compromising the performance of vehicles. If Honda go down the green route at the expense of performance then my current Civic will be my 1st and last Honda!!

23rd July 2010, 10:40	#10 (permalink)
michael3011 Supporter Thread starter Car: 2006 1.8 5 Door Royal Blue! Join Date: 17th April 2010 Location: Oldham, UK Posts: 1,455 Thanks given: 43 Thanked 77 Times in 72 Posts iTrader: (5)	Yeah Lexus do seem to be investing some money in the Hybrid Department (forced of not). My Old Man is lurking around the idea of the RX's! After having a Discovery for 6 months he decided to opt out of the young cars and something for him to retire in!

23rd July 2010, 12:04	#11 (permalink)
Dr_D Car: CIV 1.8 ES - i-shift, VIVID Join Date: 2nd January 2010 Location: Barnsley, Yorks.... Posts: 296 Thanks given: 6 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader: (0)	Well, if Honda start making more boring cars... I'm gonna definately go for the last car on my "sensible" wish list, and screw the planet et al... SKYLINE for me!!!!! Either that, or I will start to mod the civic to be a proper sleeper... just don't think the 5.7 chevy engine will fit... lol

23rd July 2010, 19:24	#16 (permalink)
Dr_D Car: CIV 1.8 ES - i-shift, VIVID Join Date: 2nd January 2010 Location: Barnsley, Yorks.... Posts: 296 Thanks given: 6 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader: (0)	I like the CRZ for its looks, and it probably drives pretty nice... but 25 clams for a small coupe... sorry, I'd rather buy something a little more "interesting" with me cash (and save a load in the process... hello Skyline or Stagea).... its purely because I'm skeptical to the whole eco-warrior thing (and I work for a power company!) Purely electric cars, they shove pollution back to the worst of all - the power station - you see this in ordinary cars - if you use your aircon, notice how the revs drop and the power seems a little less... more drag from the alternator to power the system (granted, a lot of it is also for the drive pump which isn't always electric) - Also if you watched 5th gears report on this, it takes forever to get from Newcastle to London (3 days or so... btw 5th gear is back on Discovery Turbo 10pm Weds!) Hybrids... nice idea, but crap in practice.... to get the batteries in, and most of the gubbins, you need a pretty big car... if you put in a small car (like the crz) its wasted... imagine what they could do if they chucked all the batteries and electrical gunk and just chucked in a decent 1.6 or 1.8... they'd still get low emissions and a bit more poke.... maybe I'm missing something there...? Watched a program yonks ago that had David Attenborough (he's the Murray Walker of nature to me) - he said that all this ozone lark was a load of cobblers, and so did a few eminent yank scientists... Me... I think its because we're TOLD by the press (who're controlled by the MAF... sorry, I meant GOVERNMENT) and its a sure fire way to get us morons to pay out more for something we don't actually need or want (hello DIGITAL TV!!!!) ... ahh, rant over.... .... lol

23rd July 2010, 20:21	#18 (permalink)
Orschild Supporter Car: 2008 1.8 5D SE, Galaxy Grey Join Date: 7th January 2008 Location: Sweden Posts: 789 Thanks given: 44 Thanked 34 Times in 31 Posts iTrader: (0)	One problem with hybrids though, is that it is all powered by fossil fuels. Sure has a lower consumption, but it still powered by fossil fuels alone. So hybrids are not that much better than the ordinary petrol cars and will in the end not save the planet. Plug-in hybrids will have the possibility to be re-charged using green electricity, but there is not green electricity to power an entire fleet of vehicles.

23rd July 2010, 21:44	#20 (permalink)
coste1l Supporter Car: 09 Suzuki Swift Sport white Join Date: 16th January 2010 Location: Sunderland UK Posts: 17,874 Thanks given: 1,113 Thanked 1,990 Times in 1,877 Posts iTrader: (15)	dont kid yourself over green energy people want it but wont pay the price it costs to produce, electricity in the main comes from coal fired power stations there is quite a percentage comes from edf nuclear and that will increase now they have bought british energy, most people will agree nuclear power is the best answer but they wont live next to a nuclear power station...... for me a 123d with the same amount of tinkering my civic has had/will shortly have will be both frugal and brutal