comparison between type r and 2.2 for driveability - Page 2

Relic · 8th October 2012, 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunar Tick

Excellent explanation. Many people are obsessed with engine torque output without realising that a gearbox can use the extra revs of a revvy engine to act as a torque multiplier at the wheels (where it counts). I have 180lb/ft at 6000rpm. To generate the same 'shove' at 2000rpm, a diesel would need to produce 540lb/ft

Nah your 6000rpm would be closer to 3000rpm on the diesel at similar speed.
So only need around 360 lb ft @ 3000pm

318 x 1.13 = 359.34

So yeah I know what that feels like....but yours would last over much more of the rev range.

Lunar Tick · 8th October 2012, 20:51

Just as well I still have 175lb/ft at 7500rpm then

Relic · 8th October 2012, 21:01

Must be peeling yourself off the back seat when you get out

Arkynsei · 8th October 2012, 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by pulpmelon_r

You buy a type R if you actually like driving and the experiences that come with it.

I agree to an extent, but it's not always the case. I love driving, always have. I also love "all the experiences that come with it" .. I used to have an Impreza but I had to sell it as I started doing far more miles (an extra 1k a month, bringing my total to 2k a month) .. I searched high and low for a "hot hatch diesel" that would still keep me interested in driving and modifying.. and the 2.2 Civic is the answer. I love it, and I love driving it. I just can't justify the petrol price of a Type R and if I'm honest.. I don't think I've lost anything because of that.

Except the noise of course.

Farboss · 8th October 2012, 23:37

And the speed

joking

Arkynsei · 9th October 2012, 00:14

You're right, it's not quite as fast but it ain't too bad after a remap. If I wanted speed, I wouldn't buy an 8th Gen Type-R!

a5hy · 9th October 2012, 07:14

Hi relic im trying to understand this. But its rather alien to me.

So 2.2 has more peak torque but the type r's torque is a larger band?

Can a type r be nippy around town traffic etc?

Chip · 9th October 2012, 08:44

As far as drivability is concerned - a 2.2 diesel with a paddle clutch and remap is horrible in stop start traffic.

coste1l · 9th October 2012, 08:47

Yup....

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

pulpmelon_r · 9th October 2012, 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkynsei

I searched high and low for a "hot hatch diesel" that would still keep me interested in driving and modifying.. and the 2.2 Civic is the answer. I love it, and I love driving it. I just can't justify the petrol price of a Type R and if I'm honest.. I don't think I've lost anything because of that.

Except the noise of course.

I guess you did not test drive the Seat Ibiza Cupra TDI, BMW 120/5d, or the Golf GTD??

dobe · 9th October 2012, 18:27

I loved my derv when I had it. First diesel I have owned.

So easy to overtake without dropping gears etc, great fuel economy cheap tax.
Bit of a nightmare throwing it round a corner on the A roads where I live.

Then I think an early mid-life crisis kicked in and bought my CW.
Most of the driving I do is on the motorway, but when I get closer to home and the roads are quiet you just can't beat 3rd gear on the twisty roads round my way!

Nearly pee'd my pants the first time I went to overtake in the Type R right enough compared on how easy it was in the derv.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowboyjon

As I've to older and had kids I've been forced to take a look at what I actually use a car .

I'm 39 at the end of the month mate and have a 16 year old son so your never too old.

Relic · 9th October 2012, 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by a5hy

Hi relic im trying to understand this. But its rather alien to me.

So 2.2 has more peak torque but the type r's torque is a larger band?

Can a type r be nippy around town traffic etc?

Attached is a well remapped FN3 vs a good FN2.
You can see where the FN2 wins over the FN3 and vice versa.

The Fn2 doesnt feel nippy only because the torque curve is flat.
The derv torque curve rises rapidly and then dies off.

delta0 · 9th October 2012, 20:25

That is my experience of driving diesels. You get a big shove from the torque and it quickly dies away leaving you wondering where it all went. This is why i prefer petrols because they keep giving and the sound. With the Honda the revs are what it's about too.

a5hy · 10th October 2012, 11:15

Hi relic makes interesting read.
Like there is bhp transmission loss does that also happen with torque too

Relic · 10th October 2012, 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by a5hy

Hi relic makes interesting read.
Like there is bhp transmission loss does that also happen with torque too

Yes torque will change in proprtion to power where losses are concerned.
200 hp * .9 = 180hp @ 4000rpm
180hp * 5252 / 4000 = 236.34 lb ft
200hp * 5252 / 4000 = 262.6 lb ft
236.34 / 262.6 = 0.9

Torque is just another way of expressing power.
Change torque you change power by default.

Arkynsei · 10th October 2012, 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by pulpmelon_r

I guess you did not test drive the Seat Ibiza Cupra TDI, BMW 120/5d, or the Golf GTD??

The Ibiza is the only other one I considered on that list, I do prefer the Type S' looks and it seemed more straightforward to mod.. also a better community over here!

I'm 21, I didn't fancy being forced into non-consensual night time antics with the insurance company on the BMW, I don't like the hatch ones either.. look a bit weird imo. I did test drive a Golf GTD, was nice.. nippy too, but when I got out and looked at it.. it was a Golf. It didn't look anything special at all. Far too common.

Not that 8th Gens are rare! Type S' and Type R's do seem more so though. Especially modded S'

I also looked at Leon FR's but were a teeny bit old for me, wanted something a bit newer, the new Leon's don't do anything for me.

a5hy · 11th October 2012, 07:57

Hi relic
Im really sorry but i just dont all ** equations

Thanks for trying thou

Loxy · 11th October 2012, 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by a5hy

Hi relic
Im really sorry but i just dont all ** equations

Thanks for trying thou

Try again in English this time.

Relic · 11th October 2012, 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by a5hy

Hi relic
Im really sorry but i just dont all ** equations

Thanks for trying thou

Reduce the power @ 2000rpm by 10% you will reduce the torque @ 2000rpm by 10%

Evl · 11th October 2012, 09:40

Derv - great on long drives, doesn't leave you tired at the end, not a frantic journey
Type r - quick acceleration, overtaking is as manic as you can stand, hard set up is not comfortable on long journeys.

Both are very different cars, and are for 2 different markets.

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8th October 2012, 20:51	#22 (permalink)
Lunar Tick Supporter Car: 2008 FD2, Vivid Blue Join Date: 8th June 2010 Location: Cumbria, UK Posts: 1,539 Thanks given: 218 Thanked 384 Times in 308 Posts iTrader: (1)	Just as well I still have 175lb/ft at 7500rpm then

8th October 2012, 21:01	#23 (permalink)
Relic Cockup Specialist Car: 2007 2.2 Type 'S' GT, Bronze Join Date: 31st August 2009 Location: uk Posts: 12,159 Thanks given: 737 Thanked 1,461 Times in 1,280 Posts iTrader: (0)	Must be peeling yourself off the back seat when you get out

8th October 2012, 23:37	#25 (permalink)
Farboss Supporter Join Date: 9th March 2011 Location: Reading UK Posts: 172 Thanks given: 18 Thanked 18 Times in 16 Posts iTrader: (0)	And the speed joking

9th October 2012, 00:14	#26 (permalink)
Arkynsei Supporter Car: 2010 2.2 Type S, Milano Join Date: 25th June 2012 Location: Leighton Buzzard Posts: 112 Thanks given: 9 Thanked 28 Times in 23 Posts iTrader: (0)	You're right, it's not quite as fast but it ain't too bad after a remap. If I wanted speed, I wouldn't buy an 8th Gen Type-R!

9th October 2012, 07:14	#27 (permalink)
a5hy Thread starter Car: cdti 2.2 in silver. Join Date: 2nd October 2011 Location: essex Posts: 480 Thanks given: 1 Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts iTrader: (0)	Hi relic im trying to understand this. But its rather alien to me. So 2.2 has more peak torque but the type r's torque is a larger band? Can a type r be nippy around town traffic etc?

9th October 2012, 08:44	#28 (permalink)
Chip Join Date: 5th March 2009 Location: Herts Posts: 2,213 Thanks given: 226 Thanked 154 Times in 147 Posts iTrader: (0)	As far as drivability is concerned - a 2.2 diesel with a paddle clutch and remap is horrible in stop start traffic.

9th October 2012, 08:47	#29 (permalink)
coste1l Supporter Car: 09 Suzuki Swift Sport white Join Date: 16th January 2010 Location: Sunderland UK Posts: 17,873 Thanks given: 1,113 Thanked 1,986 Times in 1,875 Posts iTrader: (15)	Yup.... Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

9th October 2012, 20:25	#33 (permalink)
delta0 Supporter Car: 2006 1.8 Sport Ishift Milano Join Date: 24th August 2011 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,910 Thanks given: 128 Thanked 191 Times in 181 Posts iTrader: (1)	That is my experience of driving diesels. You get a big shove from the torque and it quickly dies away leaving you wondering where it all went. This is why i prefer petrols because they keep giving and the sound. With the Honda the revs are what it's about too.

10th October 2012, 11:15	#34 (permalink)
a5hy Thread starter Car: cdti 2.2 in silver. Join Date: 2nd October 2011 Location: essex Posts: 480 Thanks given: 1 Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts iTrader: (0)	Hi relic makes interesting read. Like there is bhp transmission loss does that also happen with torque too

11th October 2012, 07:57	#37 (permalink)
a5hy Thread starter Car: cdti 2.2 in silver. Join Date: 2nd October 2011 Location: essex Posts: 480 Thanks given: 1 Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts iTrader: (0)	Hi relic Im really sorry but i just dont all ** equations Thanks for trying thou

11th October 2012, 09:40	#40 (permalink)
Evl Supporter Join Date: 29th September 2012 Location: Macduff, Aberdeenshire Posts: 19 Thanks given: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (1)	Derv - great on long drives, doesn't leave you tired at the end, not a frantic journey Type r - quick acceleration, overtaking is as manic as you can stand, hard set up is not comfortable on long journeys. Both are very different cars, and are for 2 different markets.