Handbrake failure compensation - Page 5

TTDegs · 4th December 2007, 16:53

I'm also sure that 1000s do the same TC - but that doesn't make it right

what would happen if, due to wear and tear, the handbrake cable snapped?
No design fault, just pure old fashioned "it's worn out and in a place that no one could see"?

As the driver, it is your (generically, not "your" in particular!) responsibility to be in full control of the vehicle.

The only possible way that you would stand a chance (I believe) of compensation is if you could prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that your particular handbrake was faulty, and caused an accident.
This would involve getting an independant assessor involved, who could reproduce the problem.
IF they could do so, whilst following the guidelines in the driver manual, and the letter, then you're on to a winner.
IF, however, they could only reproduce it by appying the handbrake whilst holding the button in, then it would be down to the judge to decide who was at fault - you, the driver, for doing it 'wrongly', or Honda, for not designing a handbrake system which failed when applied with the button pressed.

Just a random addendum:
At this stage, for all we know, the fix Honda will be installing next year could be to physically prevent you from depressing the button as you pull the lever up...

Honcho · 4th December 2007, 16:55

It's standard procedure for manufacturers to blame the consumer for manufacturing shortcomings.

Especially when they can quote some infinitesimal particle of law to justify doing it.

But everyday common sense is what matters to the consumer. And in practice, that is how alleged manufacturing shortcomings should be judged.

Will they be in this case? God knows.

But I know whose side this site should be on.

Topcat · 4th December 2007, 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodick

Some parts of the highway code are law

If a car is parked on a flat piece of road and the handbrake fails
in is unlikely it will move

if a car is parked on a hill and the handbrake fails and it is not also in gear it will roll - this is why the highway code tells drivers to park in gear when parking on a hill

Show me a manufacturer who states an owner does not need to leave their car in gear on a hill

Honda have writen to owners asking them to apply the handbrake in a certain manner they have obviously found that this is safe whilst they are currently working on a replacment handbrake

as TT already proved Honda is not the first manufacturer to have such a problem with some of its cars and I am sure it will not be the last

As previously stated I have always applied my cars handbrake in this same manner ( I might be in the minority on this one) and have never I repeat NEVER had an issue with doing this

I don't have an issue with what Honda has done

Brodick · 4th December 2007, 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Topcat

you can mock TC Facts are facts

The Phantom · 4th December 2007, 17:16

Since when has common sense and the law had anything to do with each other? LOL

Honcho - You are relying on the consumers to all be of the same standard of common sense, and to judge things accordingly. Which by it's very nature, this thread, and the others about the same subject, proves that we all see what should be done and how it should be done differently.

The general concensus is that Honda have made a mistake and that they will rectify it in the future, until then they have provided warning to all owners, along with instruction on how to best avoid incident.

The issue of compensation to those who had incidents prior to notification is a prickly matter.

We are relying on everyone to adhere to a book we all read when we were 17, and probably haven't thought about since. Everyone has picked up bad habbits since then, however the legislation that is in place hasn't changed and what we were told to do back then still applies to day.

Honda has admitted to a possible fault and is willing to rectify it. Many manufacturers wouldn't even do this. They don't need to in the eyes of the law, but to save face with the owners they are showing that they do care and are willing to fix it.

Does anyone else remember 'Fight Club'? There is an intersting bit in there about what the main charater does for a living. He's an assessor for motoring manufacturers after accidents. He decides whether there is a need to issue recalls, and mentions that there are thousands of other makes of cars out there running with much more serious issues which their manufacturers are keeping quiet about.

sturgi · 5th December 2007, 09:40

My wife still has not had a letter, is this going out to all owners or certain build period?

Cheers

mrh339 · 5th December 2007, 11:08

By TruckerEm

I have received my letter today and have rung the helpline where
I have been told by TINA at the helpline that my car will be fixed by Honda at there expense. I am suppose to be hearing from then within 48 hours (I am clock watching as i will be back on the phone if they dont call back) I will give he benifit of the doubt at the moment but if they back track on what i have been told. I wont be walking away quietly!!!!

Last edited by TruckerEm : Yesterday at 20:32

And so the precedent has been set, of course it will be without prejudice. Glad to see that Honda are doing the decent thing. Lets hope that they do it for the rest of the poor customers who have suffered loss or damage due to this.

TTDegs · 5th December 2007, 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by sturgi

My wife still has not had a letter, is this going out to all owners or certain build period?

Cheers

we're not sure (yet...)

Charley Farley · 5th December 2007, 14:52

Just a random addendum:
At this stage, for all we know, the fix Honda will be installing next year could be to physically prevent you from depressing the button as you pull the lever up...[/quote]

Hi TT

Have you ever seen a handbrake without a button. O.K excluding these electronic modern types that seem to have surfaced.

mrh339 · 5th December 2007, 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charley Farley

Just a random addendum:
At this stage, for all we know, the fix Honda will be installing next year could be to physically prevent you from depressing the button as you pull the lever up...

Hi TT

Have you ever seen a handbrake without a button. O.K excluding these electronic modern types that seem to have surfaced.[/quote]

Charley thats just plain daft. How would you release the handbrake with no button to depress?

mike_GT · 5th December 2007, 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrh339

Hi TT

Have you ever seen a handbrake without a button. O.K excluding these electronic modern types that seem to have surfaced.

Charley thats just plain daft. How would you release the handbrake with no button to depress?[/quote]

Honda may supply a great big hammer, installed in the arm rest, just pull it out when needed

mrh339 · 5th December 2007, 15:14

No there will be no room in the armrest as that is where the two Honda bricks to put in front of the wheels are going.

mike_GT · 5th December 2007, 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrh339

No there will be no room in the armrest as that is where the two Honda bricks to put in front of the wheels are going.

lol chocks away

Charles_Harding · 5th December 2007, 15:42

If they are virtually inaffective, or at least unreliable, why do Honda fit any handbrakes in the first place?

"I tried to hang myself using a bungie cord.
I nearly died five times!"

Luke Honda-Brightside

KEN BYE · 5th December 2007, 16:45

Had a letter yesterday 4/12/07. from Honda Uk. stateing that there will be a mod. on the handbrake March/April 2008.

WaynerTron · 5th December 2007, 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by KEN BYE

Had a letter yesterday 4/12/07. from Honda Uk. stateing that there will be a mod. on the handbrake March/April 2008.

Just had the same letter. I wasn't aware that there was a problem. From the advice they give I guess that the ratchet isn't engaging properly if people do the pull up with button thing.
I've seen similar problems highlighted with other cars in the past for the same reasons.
I blame sloppy handbrake procedure

W.

4540flossy · 5th December 2007, 17:33

Agree with Waynertron - compensation is totally out of the question if people don't know how to apply a handbrake properly in the first place! Ratchet up, button to release... If people can't operate their cars they shouldn't drive (bah humbug and seasons warmest to all)

WaynerTron · 5th December 2007, 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4540flossy

Agree with Waynertron - compensation is totally out of the question if people don't know how to apply a handbrake properly in the first place! Ratchet up, button to release... If people can't operate their cars they shouldn't drive (bah humbug and seasons warmest to all)

My tongue was (mostly) in my cheek with the 'sloppy' line. I'm not regular enough on here to start annoying people, especially ones that have had the misfortune to damage their car due to this problem

Happy Festivus!

Charley Farley · 5th December 2007, 17:50

Hi Guys

I wasn't suggesting that a handbrake shouldn't have a button. I was replying to TT suggestion that the modification next year will not have a depressable button.

Koen · 5th December 2007, 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles_Harding

If they are virtually inaffective, or at least unreliable, why do Honda fit any handbrakes in the first place?

For cornering on snowy roads?

K.

5th December 2007, 15:42	#94 (permalink)
Charles_Harding Civinfo guru Join Date: 14th August 2006 Location: S.E. London Posts: 3,288 Thanks: 113 Thanked 27 Times in 26 Posts iTrader: (0)	Just a thought! If they are virtually inaffective, or at least unreliable, why do Honda fit any handbrakes in the first place? *"I tried to hang myself using a bungie cord.* *I nearly died five times!"* Luke Honda-Brightside

5th December 2007, 16:45	#95 (permalink)
KEN BYE Valve Cap Join Date: 11th February 2007 Posts: 29 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	handbrake recall Had a letter yesterday 4/12/07. from Honda Uk. stateing that there will be a mod. on the handbrake March/April 2008.

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This thread is about: Handbrake failure compensation, it's in General Discussion at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; I'm also sure that 1000s do the same TC - but that doesn't make it right what would happen if, due to wear and tear, ...

4th December 2007, 16:53	#81 (permalink)
TTDegs Super Moderator Civinfo master Join Date: 4th August 2006 Location: Cardiff Posts: 5,638 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	I'm also sure that 1000s do the same TC - but that doesn't make it right what would happen if, due to wear and tear, the handbrake cable snapped? No design fault, just pure old fashioned "it's worn out and in a place that no one could see"? As the driver, it is your (generically, not "your" in particular!) responsibility to be in full control of the vehicle. The only possible way that you would stand a chance (I believe) of compensation is if you could prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that your particular handbrake was faulty, and caused an accident. This would involve getting an independant assessor involved, who could reproduce the problem. IF they could do so, whilst following the guidelines in the driver manual, and the letter, then you're on to a winner. IF, however, they could only reproduce it by appying the handbrake whilst holding the button in, then it would be down to the judge to decide who was at fault - you, the driver, for doing it 'wrongly', or Honda, for not designing a handbrake system which failed when applied with the button pressed. Just a random addendum: At this stage, for all we know, the fix Honda will be installing next year could be to physically prevent you from depressing the button as you pull the lever up...

4th December 2007, 16:55	#82 (permalink)
Honcho Supporter Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 5th October 2006 Posts: 264 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	It's standard procedure for manufacturers to blame the consumer for manufacturing shortcomings. Especially when they can quote some infinitesimal particle of law to justify doing it. But everyday common sense is what matters to the consumer. And in practice, that is how alleged manufacturing shortcomings should be judged. Will they be in this case? God knows. But I know whose side this site should be on.

4th December 2007, 17:16	#85 (permalink)
The Phantom Supporter Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 18th March 2007 Location: Scotland Posts: 244 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Since when has common sense and the law had anything to do with each other? LOL Honcho - You are relying on the consumers to all be of the same standard of common sense, and to judge things accordingly. Which by it's very nature, this thread, and the others about the same subject, proves that we all see what should be done and how it should be done differently. The general concensus is that Honda have made a mistake and that they will rectify it in the future, until then they have provided warning to all owners, along with instruction on how to best avoid incident. The issue of compensation to those who had incidents prior to notification is a prickly matter. We are relying on everyone to adhere to a book we all read when we were 17, and probably haven't thought about since. Everyone has picked up bad habbits since then, however the legislation that is in place hasn't changed and what we were told to do back then still applies to day. Honda has admitted to a possible fault and is willing to rectify it. Many manufacturers wouldn't even do this. They don't need to in the eyes of the law, but to save face with the owners they are showing that they do care and are willing to fix it. Does anyone else remember 'Fight Club'? There is an intersting bit in there about what the main charater does for a living. He's an assessor for motoring manufacturers after accidents. He decides whether there is a need to issue recalls, and mentions that there are thousands of other makes of cars out there running with much more serious issues which their manufacturers are keeping quiet about.

5th December 2007, 09:40	#86 (permalink)
sturgi Valve Cap Join Date: 11th September 2007 Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	My wife still has not had a letter, is this going out to all owners or certain build period? Cheers

5th December 2007, 11:08	#87 (permalink)
mrh339 Supporter Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 27th September 2007 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 429 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts iTrader: (0)	By TruckerEm I have received my letter today and have rung the helpline where I have been told by TINA at the helpline that my car will be fixed by Honda at there expense. I am suppose to be hearing from then within 48 hours (I am clock watching as i will be back on the phone if they dont call back) I will give he benifit of the doubt at the moment but if they back track on what i have been told. I wont be walking away quietly!!!! Last edited by TruckerEm : Yesterday at 20:32 And so the precedent has been set, of course it will be without prejudice. Glad to see that Honda are doing the decent thing. Lets hope that they do it for the rest of the poor customers who have suffered loss or damage due to this.

5th December 2007, 14:52	#89 (permalink)
Charley Farley Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 25th September 2006 Location: Greenford West London Posts: 486 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Just a random addendum: At this stage, for all we know, the fix Honda will be installing next year could be to physically prevent you from depressing the button as you pull the lever up...[/quote] Hi TT Have you ever seen a handbrake without a button. O.K excluding these electronic modern types that seem to have surfaced.

5th December 2007, 15:14	#92 (permalink)
mrh339 Supporter Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 27th September 2007 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 429 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts iTrader: (0)	No there will be no room in the armrest as that is where the two Honda bricks to put in front of the wheels are going.

5th December 2007, 17:33	#97 (permalink)
4540flossy Supporter Valve Cap Join Date: 16th November 2006 Location: Ash Vale Posts: 44 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Agree with Waynertron - compensation is totally out of the question if people don't know how to apply a handbrake properly in the first place! Ratchet up, button to release... If people can't operate their cars they shouldn't drive (bah humbug and seasons warmest to all)

5th December 2007, 17:50	#99 (permalink)
Charley Farley Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 25th September 2006 Location: Greenford West London Posts: 486 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Hi Guys I wasn't suggesting that a handbrake shouldn't have a button. I was replying to TT suggestion that the modification next year will not have a depressable button.