Group Buy Remap for 2.2i-ctdi 185bhp from £375

[audijohn]

Damian, was your car done via the OBD port?, or ECU strip down?

[TTDegs]

Damian - can you please PLEASE get a before and after dyno run done (at the same place both times)?

[civicg]

THe once click setup is similar to Superchips Bluefin which also allowed you to read in the fault codes. If you keep loading and unloading to the ECU it can upset the ECU.

Do we know if Celtic Tuning are actually the developers for this chip or merely third partly sellers?

My MAIN concern here is the chip being detected by dealers, if they can categorically confirm it is not detectable and a) they wont be able to overrite the settings or b) if htey do Celtic Tuning will rechip it FOC or a small fee.

[IWANTACIVIC]

wow 185 bhp sounds good
like was said before ,if they stand by there workmanship and you get a problem with the car they have to help you to sort it, if honda wont, and if the remap gets wiped out a foc reapply be good , also would love to see a dyno print 185 simes alot more than anyone esle. also can u ask then wether they cover there tracks with ecu counter etc

[323GT-R]

The remaps are almost always detectable IF the dealer looks for it and has the right kit. They don't *usually* show up on a standard diagnostic test, and so the chances are they never will look for it, unless they have a specific reason, eg a warranty claim. In the same way that the guys from Celtic, Superchips etc can read the code from your ECU and modify it, it is then possible for anybody else with the same tools to read the code from the ECU, then just compare it to a known standard ECU code. Some tuners also have header info in the code which identifies it, making it even more obvious if it's been remapped.

[damianscott71]

For all those concerned about a dealer spotting the remap, sorry, I can't reassure you guys 100% that they won't.

Also, as to whether Celtic develop their own maps, each map is tweaked to each and every car whilst being driven, so yes. They develop their own maps, but they may be based on another company's software. Most UK mappers partner with companies based in Germany (I believe).

At work at the mo. So I'll catch up with u all later.

D

[ciderman4]

Hi Damian,

Thanks for your clear responses to my questions. I just wanted to say that you are doing a sterling job with gathering the info. from Celtic tuning.
I'm 'up' for getting my car done however, as I have a company car I just have to ensure that I have all the bases covered, to avoid any possible comebacks from the leasing company.
I had no qualms about getting my previous car (golf tdi) chipped by Superchips as they are known to be a highly experienced and reputable company, provide up to £10k cover for costs should anything go wrong (highly unlikely) and were recommended to me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that these guys aren't reputable, but I need to be confident that they can do a good job and provide adequate after sales service, if required. To this end, as somebody else has said on the forum, I find it strange that their contact details on their website only consist of a mobile telephone number. Rightly or wrongly, that always starts ringing alarm bells with me.
Anyway, any more info. such as before and after torque and bhp curves etc. would be most appreciated.

thanks,
Steve

[audijohn]

Damian, I have been on to Superchips today, they say the remap is not detectable when diagnostics is used.
If you have an engine management problem, the ECU will be interogated/re-flashed which will affect the remap.

[karlak]

Originally Posted by audijohn

Damian, I have been on to Superchips today, they say the remap is not detectable when diagnostics is used.
If you have an engine management problem, the ECU will be interogated/re-flashed which will affect the remap.

Did Superchips mention if they had a solution which does not involve opening the ECU yet ?

[audijohn]

Originally Posted by karlak

Did Superchips mention if they had a solution which does not involve opening the ECU yet ?

To be honest I did not ask.
but you can : www.superchips.co.uk

[damianscott71]

BTW, they're not open on Saturdays.

I'm having trouble getting a call back from Celtic too. Grr... I've just sent an email and we'll see what happens. Also, I'll try and tap up Superchips on Monday for a group buy.

Just a quick comment regarding the info given by Superchips regarding dealers spotting the remap. (This is just my opinion, and it would be great if someone proves me wrong) The sales guys at Superchips will have their own agenda, and their own technical understanding. The engineers at Superchips will have a slightly different take on things. In the case of my Golf, my remap was originally done by cracking open the CPU. The car had to go in for some intensive warranty work (VW Autohaus, Kettering) and so I had the original map reapplied via the same method. When I returned the week after, they remapped the car via the OBD port.

The car still had it's original problem (warranty work hadn't fixed it) and so I took the car to another dealer (VW Listers, Coventry) and they spotted the map straight away after they had trouble interrogating the ECU. I got a call from the garage asking if it had been remapped, of course I said "no", and they sort of "warned" me that they were going to reset the ECU to try and solve the problem and that any remap would be lost. Nothing more was said, and true enough, when I picked my car up the extra horses were missing.

Took the car back to Superchips and well, you know the rest.

So, in short....

Either

A) Superchips have done more work on their OBD remapping method and have resolved the problem.

B) The information regarding the issue with my Golf hasn't filtered down from the workshop to the sales team.

C) Only certain VW dealers have the diagnostic equipment that would spot a remap.

Who knows what OBD equipment that Honda garages use? I don't but I'll try and find out.

I'll ring my local dealer now.

Ta,

Damian

[audijohn]

Originally Posted by damianscott71

BTW, they're not open on Saturdays.

I'm having trouble getting a call back from Celtic too. Grr... I've just sent an email and we'll see what happens. Also, I'll try and tap up Superchips on Monday for a group buy.

Just a quick comment regarding the info given by Superchips regarding dealers spotting the remap. (This is just my opinion, and it would be great if someone proves me wrong) The sales guys at Superchips will have their own agenda, and their own technical understanding. The engineers at Superchips will have a slightly different take on things. In the case of my Golf, my remap was originally done by cracking open the CPU. The car had to go in for some intensive warranty work (VW Autohaus, Kettering) and so I had the original map reapplied via the same method. When I returned the week after, they remapped the car via the OBD port.

The car still had it's original problem (warranty work hadn't fixed it) and so I took the car to another dealer (VW Listers, Coventry) and they spotted the map straight away after they had trouble interrogating the ECU. I got a call from the garage asking if it had been remapped, of course I said "no", and they sort of "warned" me that they were going to reset the ECU to try and solve the problem and that any remap would be lost. Nothing more was said, and true enough, when I picked my car up the extra horses were missing.

Took the car back to Superchips and well, you know the rest.

So, in short....

Either

A) Superchips have done more work on their OBD remapping method and have resolved the problem.

B) The information regarding the issue with my Golf hasn't filtered down from the workshop to the sales team.

C) Only certain VW dealers have the diagnostic equipment that would spot a remap.

Who knows what OBD equipment that Honda garages use? I don't but I'll try and find out.

I'll ring my local dealer now.

Ta,

Damian

AHHHH now I know how it was spotted
OBD port, thats how, It was NOT spotted when done the other way, but once re-flashed (as I told you guys earlier) it leaves a "signature" and my friends if Celtic do it that way it will also.
I new it was not detected the other way
Remember this:Celtic" said the same to me about my A8 TDI, when I asked if this OBD port method left a "signature" they said no, I know different.
So unless they have improved there equipment, and can garantee untracability since I spoke to them I'D give them a miss.

[323GT-R]

I've yet to see an ECU remap that cannot be detected at all. Most are transparent to standard diagnostics, but they are still detectable. The chances of it being detected are slim, though.

[IWANTACIVIC]

Yer but as pepole on here said to me when I recommed so one theres not warranrty ,so if honda spilt the car back we could have a very dear bill on our hands , so i like the idea of trying to talk superchip into doing a group buy because it wont matter if honda find the remap , if they overwrite it with 138bhp one superchips remap for free and if it causes a problem superchip warrantry will protect us if honda refuse to help, so my 10p worth is contacted superchips on monday and try to get then down a bit even £100 more that normal remapers is ok because of the safety net.
just my opion but we got 17-18k cars so why risk it for sake of a few ££

[Miggins]

Originally Posted by 323GT-R

I've yet to see an ECU remap that cannot be detected at all. Most are transparent to standard diagnostics, but they are still detectable. The chances of it being detected are slim, though.

In most service schedules the mechanic usually takes the car out for a spin - I'm sure he doesnt need any fancy equipment to realise its knocking out more than 20% more power and torque!

Having been with Superchips before I would prefer to know I have some warranty on my engine - trust me Honda engine parts are not cheap. I had a V4 blow and cried at the parts bill. Unless Celtic warranty their work completely I would have some serious concerns especially considering they claim much higher outputs.

I realise they map specifically to the vehicle but 185 (min) compared to 170 (max) is signifficant. They also quote similar proportional increases and differences for other vehicles (power and torque). We still need to see a plot to identify where the power and torque are created - 4000rpm isn't much use.

From the thread - Celtic don't appear to have a Dyno in the UK? I know that the limiting factor for remapping is purely a lack of smoke and smooth running - for which a dyno is not required to set up a vehicle but appears to be an expense one of us needs to cover?

Maybe Superchips would be prepared to match the claimed output of Celtic or comment?

[damianscott71]

Right chaps,

Latest news.... Spoke to Graham, UK manager for Celtic, at length on a couple of occasions. He really knows his stuff as he's directly involved in the development of new maps. Here are the answers to all of your burning questions....

They've remapped 30-35 Civic & Accord C-TDi's in the UK.

They have a rolling road in Ireland, and they have dyno plots for the C-TDI. They're going to scan them (paper plots) and mail then to me.

If the remap is wiped by the dealer, then they'll come out and reapply the map for you FREE OF CHARGE.

Honda Dealers don't have very sophisticated diagnostic equipment, it won't spot the remap. Only Honda super technicians would be able to spot the new map.

Celtic have got round the problem with the counter on the ECU.

The Honda engine & transmission is more robust than the VW Golf's and is less prone to flywheel judder. Also, a remapped Honda engine remains as smooth as standard, unlike my Golf 2.0TDI that used to kick me in the back at 1500rpm! This is to do with the different ways that the fuel is delivered in common rail engines as opposed to PD/unit injector engines in VAG cars.

The remap can take a bit of time to settle down apparently. The ECU takes time to re-learn it's values after the map. Can take anything up to 48 hours for the full effect. A bit like slow release viagra!

And finally, I'm getting my car remapped either this week or next. They offered to do it on Sunday for me (as a special "forum guinea pig" arrangement), but the wife has scuppered that idea! She's gotta go!

I'll do a write up and take some photo's..... Soon.

Damian

Current Car: Honda Civic Sport 2.2 I-CTDI
before that.... Golf 2.0 GT TDI superchipped
before that.... Passat 1.9 TDI, bigger injectors, bigger turbo, custom remapped by superchips.
before that.... Volvo S70 2.0 superchipped, but hardly worth it!
before that.... Peugeot 406 executive
before that.... Smart ForTwo Brabus
Before that.... VW Corrado 2.0 16v
Before that.... Renault Laguna 2.0
Before that.... Audi A4 1.8
Before that.... Toyota Carina E (yuk! Company Car)
Before that.... Peugeot 405 Turbo Diesel
Before that.... Vauxhall Cavalier 2.0
Before that.... Astra Diesel
Before that.... VW Polo GT 1.4 *** FIRST CAR ***

Phew! Only been driving 10 years!

[karlak]

Originally Posted by damianscott71

Right chaps,

Latest news.... Spoke to Graham, UK manager for Celtic, at length on a couple of occasions. He really knows his stuff as he's directly involved in the development of new maps. Here are the answers to all of your burning questions....

They've remapped 30-35 Civic & Accord C-TDi's in the UK.

They have a rolling road in Ireland, and they have dyno plots for the C-TDI. They're going to scan them (paper plots) and mail then to me.

If the remap is wiped by the dealer, then they'll come out and reapply the map for you FREE OF CHARGE.

Honda Dealers don't have very sophisticated diagnostic equipment, it won't spot the remap. Only Honda super technicians would be able to spot the new map.

Celtic have got round the problem with the counter on the ECU.

The Honda engine & transmission is more robust than the VW Golf's and is less prone to flywheel judder. Also, a remapped Honda engine remains as smooth as standard, unlike my Golf 2.0TDI that used to kick me in the back at 1500rpm! This is to do with the different ways that the fuel is delivered in common rail engines as opposed to PD/unit injector engines in VAG cars.

The remap can take a bit of time to settle down apparently. The ECU takes time to re-learn it's values after the map. Can take anything up to 48 hours for the full effect. A bit like slow release viagra!

And finally, I'm getting my car remapped either this week or next. They offered to do it on Sunday for me (as a special "forum guinea pig" arrangement), but the wife has scuppered that idea! She's gotta go!

I'll do a write up and take some photo's..... Soon.

Damian

Current Car: Honda Civic Sport 2.2 I-CTDI
before that.... Golf 2.0 GT TDI superchipped
before that.... Passat 1.9 TDI, bigger injectors, bigger turbo, custom remapped by superchips.
before that.... Volvo S70 2.0 superchipped, but hardly worth it!
before that.... Peugeot 406 executive
before that.... Smart ForTwo Brabus
Before that.... VW Corrado 2.0 16v
Before that.... Renault Laguna 2.0
Before that.... Audi A4 1.8
Before that.... Toyota Carina E (yuk! Company Car)
Before that.... Peugeot 405 Turbo Diesel
Before that.... Vauxhall Cavalier 2.0
Before that.... Astra Diesel
Before that.... VW Polo GT 1.4 *** FIRST CAR ***

Phew! Only been driving 10 years!

Well done Damian for pioneering this

If you would like a 2nd opinion on the map, I am only just down the road from you

[damianscott71]

Car is booked to be remapped by Celtic Tuning on the 17th November, 9am. Watch this space...... -> <-

Damian

[CIVHEAD]

Damian I really hope this works for you & the rest of us who want it.
Are you going to have Dyno runs before & after?
I bet you can't wait till next Friday

Cheers Mark

[IWANTACIVIC]

cool cant wait for your results . upto 48 hours for the full efects to show ? my ** said his 307 and golf was noticeable stright after remap. yer would be cool if u could have dnyo before and after .