Some thoughts about the CIVIC vs Accord iCTDi

Stef · 1st November 2006, 11:45

In the Civic press release is mentioned that the 2.2iCTDi engine is modified to fit under the Civic bonnet.
They had to remove the EGR (Exhaust gas recirculation) cooling system! (engine modders be warned!)
Honda claimed this removal was no problem due to the Civic lower weight and better aerodynamics.

The Civic and Accord have the exact same engines specs and exact same gear reduction ratio’s.

Here is my question:
Why is (according to Honda specs) the top speed of the Accord 212km/h and the Civic ‘only” 205km/h ??
(remember Civic lower weight and better aerodynamics)

3rd Honda · 1st November 2006, 21:10

Perhaps the Accord has tyres with a larger rolling radius?

Stef · 1st November 2006, 21:43

Nop, exact the same tyres.
I think according to the stuff I read here and some info I got from my dealer, The Accord realy has 150HP.
My dealer told me a guy had his Accord tested before chip tuning and he also had 150HP (tuned to 170)....

TTDegs · 1st November 2006, 23:42

if you see my 'extra ooomph options' thread, you will find that my 2.2 Civ has 149bhp as standard.

323-GTR has also had his dynod, and was giving much the same.

But, as yet, no one with a 2.2 has driven over to an AutoBahn whilst carrying a passenger, a camera and a GPS system displaying the speed

ajj · 2nd November 2006, 10:33

Just a comment, from a "gut feeling" point-of-view.

I've driven a 2.2 iCTDi Civic and a 2.2 iCTDi Accord Tourer (my usual car) and a each time I feel that the Accord has more power, even though it is a much bigger car !

I know that the specs are nominally the same, but there you go...

AJ

Ancient Nerd · 2nd November 2006, 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stef

They had to remove the EGR (Exhaust gas recirculation) cooling system! (engine modders be warned!)

I hope Honda aren't following the Renault DCi example. They had a dubious EGR design, which was one of the main causes of the many blown turbos (and consequently engines).

basegreen · 5th November 2006, 20:50

<removed frankly frightening speeding boast from lost-again>

Posts like this are not welcome on here.

Maxbert · 5th November 2006, 22:15

Basegreen- Off-topic, but what's the beef about speed here?

People want to speed, that's their business... Or has Civinfo also lowered its (metaphorical) trousers, bent over and spread them to accommodate the almighty tool of Political Correctness?

(Sorry for the rant, there, but come on! People are surely responsible for their own actions, regardless of what other people may say or do...?

)

WoolyCiv · 5th November 2006, 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxbert

Basegreen- Off-topic, but what's the beef about speed here?

People want to speed, that's their business... Or has Civinfo also lowered its (metaphorical) trousers, bent over and spread them to accommodate the almighty tool of Political Correctness?

(Sorry for the rant, there, but come on! People are surely responsible for their own actions, regardless of what other people may say or do...?

)

I don't think it is anything to do with political correctness. It is not clever or great to encourage folk to speed or post highest speeds attained on public highways.

I am not one of the 'More cameras the better' brigade or am I saying that speeds should be lowered or anything like that, I do believe in letting folk do their own thing but I do not want to be on the same road as some lunatic trying to race someone else or beat someones top speed.

JPDirect · 5th November 2006, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxbert

Basegreen- Off-topic, but what's the beef about speed here?

People want to speed, that's their business... Or has Civinfo also lowered its (metaphorical) trousers, bent over and spread them to accommodate the almighty tool of Political Correctness?

(Sorry for the rant, there, but come on! People are surely responsible for their own actions, regardless of what other people may say or do...?

)

I agree with you Maxbert! If people want to speed and risk serious injury to themselves, that's not our problem. It should be upto the Police to see if he's broken the law - not us!

Let him have his say... Don't think it was a boast either; just the way I interpreted it. Also I think he was making a point - somewhere!

Maxbert · 5th November 2006, 23:25

Quote:

but I do not want to be on the same road as some lunatic trying to race someone else or beat someones top speed.

...Is a very fair point- as a human being, husband and father I wholeheartedly agree... HOWEVER, said lunatics will be there regardless of what anyone posts/advocates/broadcasts.

What really gets me is the seeming abdication of any notion of common sense or personal responsability these days, and that if there is a lunatic on the roads (or anywhere else), it is automatically somebody else's fault for having "encouraged" them, in whatever way.

Just my 2 € cents' worth...

basegreen · 5th November 2006, 23:32

It's a site policy. Same goes for any other illegal activity.

It is not political correctness. If you knew me, you'd realise that's the last thing I would encourage.

JPDirect · 5th November 2006, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by basegreen

It's a site policy. Same goes for any other illegal activity.

It is not political correctness. If you knew me, you'd realise that's the last thing I would encourage.

Fair enough mate!

Back to the topic...

Whilst I was waiting for my Civic, I drove an Accord diesel for 3 days and thereafter had the privelage to drive the Civic diesel and I've got to say, even though Honda say it's the EXACT same engine - I tell you now, the Accord (although heavier) is much faster. I reckon by at least 10%.

Maxbert · 5th November 2006, 23:40

OK, point taken.

Absolutely NOT understood (smacks to me of screaming hypocrisy- Why superchip your car then, for example?), but taken. It's not my site after all.

Fresh woods and pastures new beckon.

'Bye all.

pcr · 5th November 2006, 23:51

This is interesting, so back on thread, why is the Accord faster than the Civic ?.

WoolyCiv · 6th November 2006, 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPDirect

Whilst I was waiting for my Civic, I drove an Accord diesel for 3 days and thereafter had the privelage to drive the Civic diesel and I've got to say, even though Honda say it's the EXACT same engine - I tell you now, the Accord (although heavier) is much faster. I reckon by at least 10%.

When you say faster do you mean acceleration wise or top speed?

Has anyone dynoed an accord?

Don't know how the removal of an EGR would affect it.

Cad · 6th November 2006, 00:06

If both cars have the same gear ratios, then in theory they should be able to attain the same highest speed with the same engine...no?

If they don't it must be a difference in the engine itself, which doesn't seem likely, or the ECU map, which does sound plausible. I don't know what an exhaust recirculation thingy does... so no idea about that.

It would be interesting to see the rolling road results for both cars.

...oh and Maxbert, get back in here you big girl's blouse. You don't have enough posts to entitle you to a flounce yet.

Maxbert · 6th November 2006, 00:21

Quote:

...oh and Maxbert, get back in here you big girl's blouse. You don't have enough posts to entitle you to a flounce yet.

TTDegs- Can't quote a PM (I think

) but...

OK, OK, hissy-fit over, that will teach me to post while drinking excellent (but 50 volts!) Grappa- (Can I post that?

)

Back to the Accord (neighbour has a tasty shooting-brake version in dark grey, looks nice and menacing!)

Sorry Basegreen, previous comments were not meant at you, but in general (although I do feel there is a grain of truth in there...)-

Maxbert

Pottsy · 6th November 2006, 05:52

I wonder if the only difference is in the software, and if so then that alone is reason enough to get it chipped.

Maxbert, we just wanted to avoid letting the site turn into one of those kiddy racing burn off cruise man sites, and ask that we just stick to Civ stuff here. I thought that the seed, or root to all those racing and "wot i burnt off today" posts tend to start with silly top speed or crazy driving posts, so we just ask that they be made elsewhere. I might just make a special section for it....

Nick7 · 6th November 2006, 08:21

Well, I have to agree - that 'banning' any 'oh, I drove 1mph over speed limit!' posts is a bit hypocritical.
I mean - we all drive cars with 140HP (ok, few with a bit less ponies) - and you can't tell me that *any* of you hasn't speeded at any time, ever.
It is also different if you do it in a safe manner - when road infront of you is empty, what kind of road, etc, etc...
It is kindof interesting how much some people frown upon some speeding, but driving recklessly (at slow speeds), having 5+ years old tyres, etc, is 'OK'.

Also, if everyone here is so 'politically correct' - why are there posts about diesel chipping? Isn't that actually illegal - since you raise power of your car, whilst in papers of car it shows different horsepower?
Also, if all of you drive by speed limits, why would you want to 'chip' your diesel - as 140HP is more than enough to get to speed limit and over it in VERY short time?!

My point is - I do not agree people should drive stupidly fast, nor boast and make it yet another '**** size contest' - but it also *is* part of 'drivers life' - and as such it should be viewed differently.

Besides... why would people comment about 'road handling', 'sports suspension', 'Type-R', etc.. if you drive all the time by legal limits, you will *never* need any of those.

1st November 2006, 11:45	#1 (permalink)
Stef Supporter Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 14th October 2006 Location: Belgium Posts: 385 Thanks: 5 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	Some thoughts about the CIVIC vs Accord iCTDi In the Civic press release is mentioned that the 2.2iCTDi engine is modified to fit under the Civic bonnet. They had to remove the EGR (Exhaust gas recirculation) cooling system! (engine modders be warned!) Honda claimed this removal was no problem due to the Civic lower weight and better aerodynamics. The Civic and Accord have the exact same engines specs and exact same gear reduction ratio’s. Here is my question: Why is (according to Honda specs) the top speed of the Accord 212km/h and the Civic ‘only” 205km/h ?? (remember Civic lower weight and better aerodynamics)

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This thread is about: Some thoughts about the CIVIC vs Accord iCTDi, it's in Honda Accord at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; In the Civic press release is mentioned that the 2.2iCTDi engine is modified to fit under the Civic bonnet. They had to remove the EGR ...

1st November 2006, 21:10	#2 (permalink)
3rd Honda Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 24th July 2006 Location: Tewkesbury Posts: 379 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts iTrader: (0)	Perhaps the Accord has tyres with a larger rolling radius?

1st November 2006, 21:43	#3 (permalink)
Stef Supporter Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 14th October 2006 Location: Belgium Posts: 385 Thanks: 5 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	Nop, exact the same tyres. I think according to the stuff I read here and some info I got from my dealer, The Accord realy has 150HP. My dealer told me a guy had his Accord tested before chip tuning and he also had 150HP (tuned to 170)....

1st November 2006, 23:42	#4 (permalink)
TTDegs Super Moderator Civinfo master Join Date: 4th August 2006 Location: Cardiff Posts: 5,638 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	if you see my 'extra ooomph options' thread, you will find that my 2.2 Civ has 149bhp as standard. 323-GTR has also had his dynod, and was giving much the same. But, as yet, no one with a 2.2 has driven over to an AutoBahn whilst carrying a passenger, a camera and a GPS system displaying the speed

2nd November 2006, 10:33	#5 (permalink)
ajj Valve Cap Join Date: 11th July 2006 Location: Loughborough Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Just a comment, from a "gut feeling" point-of-view. I've driven a 2.2 iCTDi Civic and a 2.2 iCTDi Accord Tourer (my usual car) and a each time I feel that the Accord has more power, even though it is a much bigger car ! I know that the specs are nominally the same, but there you go... AJ

5th November 2006, 20:50	#7 (permalink)
basegreen Super Moderator Civinfo guru Join Date: 15th April 2006 Location: noitacoL Posts: 2,896 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader: (0)	<removed frankly frightening speeding boast from lost-again> Posts like this are not welcome on here.

5th November 2006, 22:15	#8 (permalink)
Maxbert Supporter Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 11th August 2006 Location: The Green Heart of Europe Posts: 138 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Basegreen- Off-topic, but what's the beef about speed here? People want to speed, that's their business... Or has Civinfo also lowered its (metaphorical) trousers, bent over and spread them to accommodate the almighty tool of Political Correctness? (Sorry for the rant, there, but come on! People are surely responsible for their own actions, regardless of what other people may say or do...? )

5th November 2006, 23:32	#12 (permalink)
basegreen Super Moderator Civinfo guru Join Date: 15th April 2006 Location: noitacoL Posts: 2,896 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader: (0)	It's a site policy. Same goes for any other illegal activity. It is not political correctness. If you knew me, you'd realise that's the last thing I would encourage.

5th November 2006, 23:40	#14 (permalink)
Maxbert Supporter Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 11th August 2006 Location: The Green Heart of Europe Posts: 138 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	OK, point taken. Absolutely NOT understood (smacks to me of screaming hypocrisy- Why superchip your car then, for example?), but taken. It's not my site after all. Fresh woods and pastures new beckon. 'Bye all.

5th November 2006, 23:51	#15 (permalink)
pcr Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 5th September 2006 Location: Shropshire Posts: 848 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	This is interesting, so back on thread, why is the Accord faster than the Civic ?.

6th November 2006, 00:06	#17 (permalink)
Cad estranged Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 5th June 2006 Location: Upstairs Posts: 391 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	If both cars have the same gear ratios, then in theory they should be able to attain the same highest speed with the same engine...no? If they don't it must be a difference in the engine itself, which doesn't seem likely, or the ECU map, which does sound plausible. I don't know what an exhaust recirculation thingy does... so no idea about that. It would be interesting to see the rolling road results for both cars. ...oh and Maxbert, get back in here you big girl's blouse. You don't have enough posts to entitle you to a flounce yet.

6th November 2006, 05:52	#19 (permalink)
Pottsy Administrator Civinfo master Join Date: 10th April 2006 Location: Leics Posts: 5,468 Thanks: 22 Thanked 164 Times in 97 Posts iTrader: (0)	I wonder if the only difference is in the software, and if so then that alone is reason enough to get it chipped. Maxbert, we just wanted to avoid letting the site turn into one of those kiddy racing burn off cruise man sites, and ask that we just stick to Civ stuff here. I thought that the seed, or root to all those racing and "wot i burnt off today" posts tend to start with silly top speed or crazy driving posts, so we just ask that they be made elsewhere. I might just make a special section for it....

6th November 2006, 08:21	#20 (permalink)
Nick7 Supporter Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 10th August 2006 Location: Croatia Posts: 453 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	Well, I have to agree - that 'banning' any 'oh, I drove 1mph over speed limit!' posts is a bit hypocritical. I mean - we all drive cars with 140HP (ok, few with a bit less ponies) - and you can't tell me that any of you hasn't speeded at any time, ever. It is also different if you do it in a safe manner - when road infront of you is empty, what kind of road, etc, etc... It is kindof interesting how much some people frown upon some speeding, but driving recklessly (at slow speeds), having 5+ years old tyres, etc, is 'OK'. Also, if everyone here is so 'politically correct' - why are there posts about diesel chipping? Isn't that actually illegal - since you raise power of your car, whilst in papers of car it shows different horsepower? Also, if all of you drive by speed limits, why would you want to 'chip' your diesel - as 140HP is more than enough to get to speed limit and over it in VERY short time?! My point is - I do not agree people should drive stupidly fast, nor boast and make it yet another '**** size contest' - but it also is part of 'drivers life' - and as such it should be viewed differently. Besides... why would people comment about 'road handling', 'sports suspension', 'Type-R', etc.. if you drive all the time by legal limits, you will never need any of those.