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Old 21st July 2010, 20:06   #1 (permalink)
 
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Diesel low revs problem

My 2004 Honda Accord 2.2l diesel (66k miles) has developed a fault when dipping the clutch pedal at a junction or coming to a halt. The revs drop to 500 (820 at idle) and occasionally it stalls even with the clutch pedal fully depressed. After a few seconds the revs suddenly pick up to the normal idle speed. It always idles perfectly when stationary; the problem only happens when negotiating junctions or stopping. This only happened after a recent service 6 weeks ago. Honda dealer carried out full diagnostic and only fault found was a new fuel filter and possibly a glow plug relay both of which I replaced; however fault is still there. Mechanic thought it could be bad diesel batch but I've done 4000 miles since service in hot and cold, wet and dry weather and fault is still there. Any ideas?

Duncan.
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Old 21st July 2010, 20:17   #2 (permalink)
 
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Could it be the known problem on early diesels, in the inlet manifold swirl chamber?
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Old 21st July 2010, 20:23   #3 (permalink)
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I've never heard of that problem; can you say more? Thanks.
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Old 21st July 2010, 20:28   #4 (permalink)
 
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Sorry don' know anymore. I just remember reading it in the Telegaph- Honest John
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Old 25th July 2010, 06:16   #5 (permalink)
 
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Sorry don' know anymore. I just remember reading it in the Telegaph- Honest John
Never heard of it on the accord. There's a known problem with swirl flaps on the 320d up till 2004.
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Old 28th July 2010, 12:36   #6 (permalink)
 
 
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I've heard of similar problems on other cars, think it the egr valve.
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Old 28th July 2010, 12:48   #7 (permalink)
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I would expect you may have a leak where the new fuel filter was fitted.
Fuel will not leak out, but air is drawn in as the pump sucks fuel up from the tank.
When this happens the engine is trying to run on air not fuel.

EGR valves usually cause lack of power and smoke when they stick
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Old 2nd August 2010, 20:55   #8 (permalink)
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The problem was there before and after the fuel filter was fitted. There's no lack of power on the car and mpg is unchanged.
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Old 3rd August 2010, 12:42   #9 (permalink)
 
 
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Does this happen if when driving along and you depress the clutch or only when slowing down? Am i right in saying it has only developed since the service 6 weeks ago?
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Old 3rd August 2010, 13:55   #10 (permalink)
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Diagnostics on that one.
Sounds like a sensor failing to me.

Does the car try to move when the revs drop ?
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Old 3rd August 2010, 13:57   #11 (permalink)
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Ah yes....
check the battery staps are tight and clean
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Old 4th August 2010, 21:52   #12 (permalink)
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Does this happen if when driving along and you depress the clutch or only when slowing down? Am i right in saying it has only developed since the service 6 weeks ago?
IT happens only when at a junction slowing to a stop but also does it if you knock it into neutral without using the clutch; its stalled today doing just that.
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Old 4th August 2010, 22:00   #13 (permalink)
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Diagnostics on that one.
Sounds like a sensor failing to me.

Does the car try to move when the revs drop ?
The car has been through a full diagnostic (cost me 75) and it only came up with two issues both of which have been fixed (fuel filter and glow plug relay) but car still has problem. It doesn't try to move when the revs drop. Which sensor could be at fault and would the diagnostic not pick it up?
I still have warranty on the car so am keen to try and get a fix before it runs out even if it doesn't cover it I'll kick myself if I leave this and discover I could have got it done under a warranty claim
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Old 5th August 2010, 00:22   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dcrobertson68 View Post
The car has been through a full diagnostic (cost me 75) and it only came up with two issues both of which have been fixed (fuel filter and glow plug relay) but car still has problem. It doesn't try to move when the revs drop. Which sensor could be at fault and would the diagnostic not pick it up?
I still have warranty on the car so am keen to try and get a fix before it runs out even if it doesn't cover it I'll kick myself if I leave this and discover I could have got it done under a warranty claim
Well if all the sensors have been tested OK (ask what they tested).
My only other conclusion would be air in the fuel line.
Did they prime & drain the fuel line properly after changing the filter ?
Other than that... some kind of blockage.

Whatever the case.. if its repeatable... its a fixable fault that the dealer must repair.
So dont get fobbed off anymore.
Demonstrate to an engineer the problem.
Tell them to keep the car until its fixed under warranty.
If they refuse... speak to honda UK....politely
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Old 6th August 2010, 18:46   #15 (permalink)
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Does sound like a sensor,
Probably the crank shaft speed sensor.
They usually "count" the number and speed of the teeth on the flywheel starter ring, or similar lumps on the flywheel.
If the ECU cannot see the engine speed properly it won't know when to start fuelling again,and so engine stalls
I expect the sensor is failing or the connections are bad.
May only give a temporary problem, so ECU does not record a fault code.

You will have to try and show the dealer the problem.

All the faults I have had with my Civic have taken at least 4 visits to the dealer.
1st vist: "No fault found"
2nd visit: " we have fixed it"
3rd visit: "Ah! perhaps we haven't. Ordered parts".
4th visit: " All done. Never had that problem with a Civic before".

Stick with it
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Old 16th August 2010, 16:32   #16 (permalink)
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Phoenix Honda Stirling had the car for three days almost; they checked with Honda UK and reckoned they sourced the problem to a sooted-up Exhaust Gas Recirculation valve or sensor thing; first owner did low mileage so car may not have been given enough driving. Foreman mechanic even took the car on a lengthy run to ensure problem was fixed. Charged 150 which was reduced given the hours of time they spent poking about on it. Problem recurred within a couple of miles and is no better whatsoever.
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Old 16th August 2010, 16:55   #17 (permalink)
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does you car smoke badly when accelerating ?
Whats the oil use and level like ?
Whats the water level like and how clean is it ?
Is it getting better or worse.
Can you explain the difference between shifting into neutral and idling ?

If it happens under heavy braking, I would guess crap in an injector line blocking 1 injector under inertia.
3/4th of 800 = 600rpm.

But dropping to 500 intermittently ????
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Old 16th August 2010, 16:59   #18 (permalink)
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Find unplug and test all the vacumm lines by removing blocking one end and blowing.
Especially any to the brake servo.
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Old 16th August 2010, 18:12   #19 (permalink)
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How frustrating!
Could well be the EGR valve.
Did they clean it or replace?
They get jammed up with soot, Fords are particularly bad.
The Land Rover and Ford guys usually blank the EGR valves off and avoid the problem that way.
I have not heard of A Honda with this done.
The only way to eliminate would be to fit a new valve, which will be expensive, with no guarantee that this is actually the issue.
You're going to have to take it back again.
They have charged you, claimed to have fixed..but haven't
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Old 16th August 2010, 20:33   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post
does you car smoke badly when accelerating ?
Whats the oil use and level like ?
Whats the water level like and how clean is it ?
Is it getting better or worse.
Can you explain the difference between shifting into neutral and idling ?

If it happens under heavy braking, I would guess crap in an injector line blocking 1 injector under inertia.
3/4th of 800 = 600rpm.

But dropping to 500 intermittently ????
Car doesn't smoke at all
It uses less than half a litre of oil between services (12k miles)
Water is as clean as the day it went in
It's seems to be the same, not getting worse.
If you start the car and remain stationary it idles perfectly (814 rpm apparently). The problem is only evident when coming to a halt (I tend to think it could be worse on a downhill slope but I could just be imagining this). Normally I dip the clutch in 2nd or 3rd as normal and its then that the revs occasionally dip down as low as 500 (below this and it stalls) and flip up to 1100 and back to idle speed. It doesn't always do the flip up part, just returns from low revs to normal revs. I tried it too by knocking the car into neutral long before I needed to come to a halt and it still did it at the same place.

As far as I know they only cleaned the EGR valve; if it needs replacing then they said they will look to get it covered by the warranty.
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