Waste of time and effort?

[MisterTee]

I'm fed up with this environmentalism, it affects everything! I went to get a new pen from the stationary cupboard and I was asked if I had used all the ink in my last one so I don't use more pens than I need.

This country seems to follow the "punish" rather than "reward" scheme of things, i.e. we'll tax and penalise rather than encourage, and if we make some money on the side, even better.

In my opinion, its probably a bit of both sides that are correct, the world IS naturally getting warmer, and what WE do has an effect. I just think the green brigade have better marketing, e.g. when did "global warming" become "climate change"? Did that word exist before some marketing executive invented it?

Rant over, we can all do our bit to save the planet, but would companies stop profiteering over it!!!

[jazzman]

Originally Posted by LNT

Deleted original post because it's futile.Pointless thread so I'm not going to bother.

That`s a shame because I was interested to hear your experiences with the Hybrid which when I tried one was a nice comfortable car. I would have liked to know what sort of consumption figures you were getting in town and also on the open roads and how you rated the performance generally.

[FWH]

Originally Posted by jazzman

That`s a shame

Agreed.

[allan40alt]

Yes, I do hope it wasn't the little bit of light hearted banter that crept in. We always like to have a few funnies, along with the serious stuff.

[Retronana]

IMA owner raises head over the parapet...

Agree in part with comments about the IMA and the Hybrid concept, its far from perfect although it is heading in the right direction if maybe not in a direct route.

Hydrogen Fuel Cells looks like a pretty good option but given the price of manufacture not really that viable at the moment.

I have had my IMA EX since the 2nd week in Jan 2008 and have already put 6k on the clock, its a really nice drive and for me personally a good choice of a car, I do have to compromise a little for it to meet my expectations but overall I'm very pleased with the purchase.

Maybe its just me but I find the Prius is a little too much of a statement for me (a bit like wearing sandals with socks), the Honda IMA is for those that want to make a difference but don't really want to shout about from the top of a hill....

MPG wise, 48-50 per gallon which is pretty good IMHO, sure some diesels beat that by a fair bit, I don't like the feel/sound/vibe of diesels engines so the IMA is a good choice for me.

Looks nice, drives nice, quiet and comfortable...what more could you want ?

[civicfan]

Originally Posted by MisterTee

I'm fed up with this environmentalism, it affects everything! I went to get a new pen from the stationary cupboard and I was asked if I had used all the ink in my last one so I don't use more pens than I need.

This country seems to follow the "punish" rather than "reward" scheme of things, i.e. we'll tax and penalise rather than encourage, and if we make some money on the side, even better.

In my opinion, its probably a bit of both sides that are correct, the world IS naturally getting warmer, and what WE do has an effect. I just think the green brigade have better marketing, e.g. when did "global warming" become "climate change"? Did that word exist before some marketing executive invented it?

Rant over, we can all do our bit to save the planet, but would companies stop profiteering over it!!!

What you (we) are fed up with is actually not environmentalism, it's just plain greed

[jazzman]

Originally Posted by Retronana

IMA owner raises head over the parapet...

Agree in part with comments about the IMA and the Hybrid concept, its far from perfect although it is heading in the right direction if maybe not in a direct route.

Hydrogen Fuel Cells looks like a pretty good option but given the price of manufacture not really that viable at the moment.

I have had my IMA EX since the 2nd week in Jan 2008 and have already put 6k on the clock, its a really nice drive and for me personally a good choice of a car, I do have to compromise a little for it to meet my expectations but overall I'm very pleased with the purchase.

Maybe its just me but I find the Prius is a little too much of a statement for me (a bit like wearing sandals with socks), the Honda IMA is for those that want to make a difference but don't really want to shout about from the top of a hill....

MPG wise, 48-50 per gallon which is pretty good IMHO, sure some diesels beat that by a fair bit, I don't like the feel/sound/vibe of diesels engines so the IMA is a good choice for me.

Looks nice, drives nice, quiet and comfortable...what more could you want ?

Interesting comments thanks

[LNT]

Originally Posted by jazzman

That`s a shame because I was interested to hear your experiences with the Hybrid which when I tried one was a nice comfortable car. I would have liked to know what sort of consumption figures you were getting in town and also on the open roads and how you rated the performance generally.

The bottom line is that someone has posted an obviously rabble rousing post aimed at discrediting the Hybrid, which is typical of the "My car's better than yours and I'll tell you why" type of post often seen on here. Just look at the guy who bought a Leon to see the abuse his car got. Not only that, but it's posted in the Hybrid section of the forum. I can't see for the life of me why that post was made in the part of the forum which any Hybrid owners would possibly turn to first. And of course all non hybrid owners then jump on the bandwagon. I therefore refuse to take the bait and refuse to justify the purchase of my car, which, a year later, I am still extremely happy with and which has cost very little to run, insure, tax and service. I don't give a monkeys about being environmentally friendly, but I do care about my pocket. At the end of the day, millions of people buy millions of cars every year, and it's up to them what they buy, and pointless posts intending to get a reaction from owners of cars different to theirs is just childish and pathetic.

There, I took the bait after all. Hope you're happy.

[jazzman]

Originally Posted by LNT

The bottom line is that someone has posted an obviously rabble rousing post aimed at discrediting the Hybrid, which is typical of the "My car's better than yours and I'll tell you why" type of post often seen on here. Just look at the guy who bought a Leon to see the abuse his car got. Not only that, but it's posted in the Hybrid section of the forum. I can't see for the life of me why that post was made in the part of the forum which any Hybrid owners would possibly turn to first. And of course all non hybrid owners then jump on the bandwagon. I therefore refuse to take the bait and refuse to justify the purchase of my car, which, a year later, I am still extremely happy with and which has cost very little to run, insure, tax and service. I don't give a monkeys about being environmentally friendly, but I do care about my pocket. At the end of the day, millions of people buy millions of cars every year, and it's up to them what they buy, and pointless posts intending to get a reaction from owners of cars different to theirs is just childish and pathetic.

There, I took the bait after all. Hope you're happy.

I hope you did`nt take my post to be "childish and pathetic" as it was posted out of interest to gain knowledge of the owning of a hybrid and the opinion of the owner, surely a main point of this forum.

[Courant]

Originally Posted by MisterTee

I'm fed up with this environmentalism, it affects everything! I went to get a new pen from the stationary cupboard and I was asked if I had used all the ink in my last one so I don't use more pens than I need.

This country seems to follow the "punish" rather than "reward" scheme of things, i.e. we'll tax and penalise rather than encourage, and if we make some money on the side, even better.

In my opinion, its probably a bit of both sides that are correct, the world IS naturally getting warmer, and what WE do has an effect. I just think the green brigade have better marketing, e.g. when did "global warming" become "climate change"? Did that word exist before some marketing executive invented it?

Rant over, we can all do our bit to save the planet, but would companies stop profiteering over it!!!

As a research engineer working in part in the automotive industry (albeit not on environmental issues!), can I give you an alternative perspective?

First off, climate change is real, and it's man-made - the scientific evidence points overwhelmingly to this conclusion. The solution to this is going to be largely technological (although behaviour and perception plays a large role too) - engineers have a direct impact on our future society.

Now, I'd argue strongly that commercial incentives play a massive role in shaping future technology. Consider this, where is the incentive for companies to develop future technology if there is no potential for profit? I don't believe that "profiteering" exists, because ultimately there is real competition is most markets (and certainly in the automotive industry) - further education and information kills the potential for unscrupulous firms to take advantage of less-than-truthful marketing. Engineers do a job and they get paid for it. Companies have thus to seek new opportunities and take risks, to make money.

And here's where tax changes have a real place - taxes that target environmental issues are absolutely not punishing!!! Rather they're rewarding those that take advantage of new pressures, they're creating commercial opportunities for technological innovation. This is absolutely essential!!! There's nothing like money to change behaviour

Going back to the point in hand. Yes, I agree the Civic hybrid is not a good solution. But Honda have taken a commercial and technological risk, and it hasn't worked out. We should not criticise them for it, rather it should be applauded and encouraged; they sought an innovative solution to a real problem. Maybe the next one will work, this is how innovation goes, you have to try.

It seems hybrid technology is only really suited to big cars, largely because of the relatively high weight penalty of batteries. Who knows, maybe better battery technology will be developed and then hybrids will work? Again, you've got to take the risk, and risk taking should be rewarded and encouraged. And I mean encouraged in the widest sense, through public support, acknowledgement (yes, this means marketing, this is important because if people by Honda because of perceived green research credentials, even if they don't buy the hybrid, they're supporting the company that decides to spend it's R&D budget on green issues), tax & legistlation (where appropriate, and I'm generally a small government kind of person!). They shouldn't buy the hybrid because they think it's better (because it's not), things have to be allowed to fail commercially too, that's part and parcel of the system.

Sorry, rant over, but this is something close to my heart! Environmentalism and capitalism and technological innovation go absolutely hand-in-hand in my book, and this is something that both the radical green-brigage and the raging anti-environmentalists have got profoundly wrong. And it's the biggest single issue facing our society.

Courant

[LNT]

Originally Posted by jazzman

I hope you did`nt take my post to be "childish and pathetic" as it was posted out of interest to gain knowledge of the owning of a hybrid and the opinion of the owner, surely a main point of this forum.

No, not at all, it was the original post and the bandwagon jumpers after it.

[jazzman]

Originally Posted by LNT

No, not at all, it was the original post and the bandwagon jumpers after it.

That`s great so how about a few of your views on things like gearbox, fuel consumption, performance and other things like different driving techniques needed all of which are interesting.

[FWH]

Not intending to be a bandwagon jumper.

Just a bit confused around the hybrid hype.

[Retronana]

The Honda IMA is what it is...a start

I remember when the first sequential gear boxes arrived in non F1 cars, a gimmick to start...and not a very good one at that.

The VW DSG transmission is now nearly the first option for most buyers of high end VW's, from gimmick to almost essential in a few years.

Again I know the IMA is not perfect but it does try to answer a few questions, not all of them but it is a "work in progress" concept, if you don't like the concept no one is forcing you to buy one...so just move on a buy something you do like.

I'm not a fan of new shape TypeR, I liked the old one but given that this forum is full new happy owners of the new model my opinion is just a personnel one and why should I stick the boot in on the owners of the new shape Civic, no need to IMHO.

[Buttons]

Originally Posted by pekwah1

That is true, but not for the civic as the petrol engine is always running. The prius however does switch the petrol engine on and off.

That is not true, you can drive the honda without petrol over 11 mph, it is not an advertised feature but exists never the less.

Hybrid as currently portrayed is limited in its appeal. But the theory that all energy lost in braking should be captured and re-used for acceleration cannot be questioned surely? It's just plain common sense.

[pekwah1]

Thanks for all the replies!

There's been some good points made so far, just to clarify though, i don't have a problem with hybrid cars, but just feel that it's just kinda half a solution but it's a fair point that it's a starting point.

Personally i would agree that it's a nice looking car and the emissions figures and mpg are very good.

The point about the punish rather than reward is a valid one also. The problem i have about these hybrid cars is the government's input on it. If the government were really that concerned, i'm sure that some kind of legislation about emissions etc could be imposed, or they could heavily subsidise other technologies such as the hyrdogen fuel cell or pure electric cars.

Personally, i think anyone has the right to drive any car they want. It's the whole thing of free choice!

Andy

[pekwah1]

So just reading a copy of top gear magazine, looks like Honda are well on the way actually. Anyone bored, have a search for:

FCX Clarity

[defrece]

going off subject a tiny bit, how have hybrid owners found servicing? is it more expensive? how often do the batteries have to be changed? do the dealers/mechanics know what their doing?

[pekwah1]

Originally Posted by defrece

going off subject a tiny bit, how have hybrid owners found servicing? is it more expensive? how often do the batteries have to be changed? do the dealers/mechanics know what their doing?

I'm going to half-answer this. I've read a lot of information about pure electric motor cars and the servicing is brilliant. Because of the simplicity of the engineering involved, realistically you're looking at a service interval of 250,000 miles, and yes, i did mean 250,000 miles! As for the battery, technology has come a long way and they expect it to far outlive that 250,000 miles, not sure about how many years though...

[defrece]

but thats for pure electric cars! surely the civic hybrid doesn't have 250,000 mile service intervals?