Waste of time and effort?

[pekwah1]

Hi guys,

Well i'm possibly gonna p**s a lot of people off on this post, but here goes...! Bear in mind though that this is just my opinion and i'm sure there will be lots of good arguments against (or so i'm hoping).

Anyway, it just seems to me that this whole hybrid lark is a bit of a waste of time where the effort could be much better used. The whole idea is about saving the environent etc etc, but i still don't see the point of the hybrid engine. The co2 emissions are impressive, but not that groundbreaking, and then there's the mpg. The company i work for has a fleet of civics, some diesel, some hybrid for the london engineers. The common thing i hear off the londoners is that the mpg they are achieving is very poor, less than 40mpg most of the time.

Now i drive the diesel which i seem to be getting a comfortable 50mpg from, and i don't even drive that light footed.

Anyway i digress...

So as i see, you get a slightly better co2 emissions rating, worse fuel economy, and then there's the production / recycling costs. To produce one of these hybrid cars is a pricey task and it's only because the government subsidise it that it is affordable, otherwise we would be paying around £28k-£29k for the car! The electric motor and battery obviously add extra weight, and steal valuable space from the car. Extra weight again = worse economy. Then we come to disposing of the car once it has expired. The main problem here is the battery which are very difficult to despose of. Luckily, a lot of manufacturers offer to recycle these for us (i'm not sure about honda).

Anyway, the point i'm trying to make is that for all this effort and cost, i don't think that there is a huge benefit from these hybrid cars. I think that the manufacturers' efforts could be much better placed into fuel cell research or pure electric motor cars, a good example being tesla who have teamed up with lotus. Although the power stations would have to work harder to produce the electricity to power these cars, the savings in not producing petrol / diesel, servicing etc highly outweighs the electricity cost.

Anyway, that's my essay over, i'm quite interested in getting some response from both sides of the fence.....

Thanks for reading!
Andy

[FWH]

While I fully support the development of more eco friendly cars, I also question the hybrid concept.

The benefit, as I see it, is that when you drive slowly (e.g. in residential areas) there is zero emission in that area.
That can very locally help improve air quality.

[allan40alt]

I think your right.

Maybe Hydrogen is the way to go. Look forward to seeing the Honda FCX in the future.

Honda FCX Clarity - Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicle - Official Web Site

[rmh999]

If it was not for the subsidies i dont think anyone would buy one.... avoid the London congestion charge seems to be the most common reason to get one....

Then again the government and "RED KEN" have done more u-turns than the playground roundabout so when they drop the subsidy you will be left with a white elephant that is hard and expensive to decommission.



oh except the Hollywood celebrities when its good for the image to drive a PRIUS, and leave the Ferrari at home !

[Pumatron]

In my opinion a hybrid is just a way of manufactures/oil companies showing that they are doing there bit for the enviroment......there is alot of brown envelopes passed under board room desk with this one......hybrids are a stop gap...a cover up....what ever you want to call it. It is the oil companies controlling clean energy and when the oil companies have worked out a way of harnessing a profit out of clean energy then and only then will it be allowed to be used for the good of the planet and us joe public....Just my opinion...

[allan40alt]

Originally Posted by rmh999

..........

oh except the Hollywood celebrities when its good for the image to drive a PRIUS, and leave the Ferrari at home !

Ah, you mean the Prius they were given free of charge as a gift by Toyota for publicity!

[jazzman]

Why don`t we ask the hybrid owners to let us know their views on their cars especially fuel consumption to give us a better idea.

[DeanFYoung]

Hybrids, as I see them are buzzwords - that promote the idea that manufactorers are thinking about the environment, which they are, but as mentioned above the benefits are actually that amazing (certainly not for the money that has been invested). But then we have to start somewhere.....now we are seeing the advent of the hydrogen fuel cell...and who knows what in the future.

Also, hybrds are a good way of getting that other polictal buzz word out and about - CO2 emissions!

[HappyMan]

Personally I think 'hybrid' and 'green' cars are being introduced as political gimmiks and haven't really been thought through and developed as they should be. This isn't a new business idea and the companies involved are not needing to sell these cars to have money to reinvest, so really can wait to produce a really economically, enviromentally and truly 'green' car.

I know we have to do something but surely real investment supported by the governments of the world would be a better way of approaching the issue. Looking for alternatives that are both realistic and safe surely is the way forward rather than producing half measured efforts.

Plus there are sooo many differing views on the whole 'environmental' issue that most of us don't know what to believe - let's have one voice, one view and move on forward together rather than what we have now.

[LNT]

Deleted original post because it's futile.Pointless thread so I'm not going to bother.

[Charles_Harding]

Originally Posted by allan40alt

Ah, you mean the Prius they were given free of charge as a gift by Toyota for publicity!

Not so sure about that.

Just seen an add on tv and all those stars seem to drive Renaults!

"It was a very bold man who first ate an oyster!"

[FWH]

Originally Posted by Charles_Harding

Not so sure about that.

Just seen an add on tv and all those stars seem to drive Renaults!

"It was a very bold man who first ate an oyster!"

Hardly any French cars in the US.
One thing the Americans actually do well...

[allan40alt]

Originally Posted by FWH

Hardly any French cars in the US.
One thing the Americans actually do well...

Yes, shame we Britons didn't support our industry in the past like the French have always supported theirs, can't blame them for doing that though.

At least with a Civic we can say we support our factories.

Buy British made goods! (Where you can!) Don't buy cheapo goods from Countries that pollute the Planet!

[FWH]

Originally Posted by allan40alt

Buy British made goods!

I think you will find that most of us on here have bought at least one...

But then it is made up of parts coming from all over the world...

A good reason for buying locally produced goods is that it cuts down on polluting transportation.

One ridiculous example of the opposite is that Sweden and Norway both export bottled water to each other....and both have very good tap water on top of that!
If we both just drank our own bottled water, we would probably cut down on several lorry loads of water.

(Yes I realise that is an over simplification and exact transport routes would need to be analysed to see if this is really a saving depending on where it is bottled and where it ends up).

[pekwah1]

Originally Posted by FWH

While I fully support the development of more eco friendly cars, I also question the hybrid concept.

The benefit, as I see it, is that when you drive slowly (e.g. in residential areas) there is zero emission in that area.
That can very locally help improve air quality.

That is true, but not for the civic as the petrol engine is always running. The prius however does switch the petrol engine on and off.

[FWH]

Originally Posted by pekwah1

That is true, but not for the civic as the petrol engine is always running. The prius however does switch the petrol engine on and off.

I thought Honda did it the Toyota way... but that was just my assumption. That makes the Honda hybrid seem even more pointless in my opinion.

Well, yes:
1) In some markets it is financially beneficial to the owner
2) It some markets it is the only way to get the 4 door Civic
3) It is the only Civic with a CVT auto box rather than the i-shift
4) It does have lower fuel consumption than the other petrol Civics

[harleyfatboy]

Dont forget FWH the other thing they do rather well is build motorcycles HARLEY-DAVIDSON motorcycles to be exact...ON A STEEL HORSE I RIDE

[FWH]

Originally Posted by harleyfatboy

Dont forget FWH the other thing they do rather well is build motorcycles HARLEY-DAVIDSON motorcycles to be exact...ON A STEEL HORSE I RIDE

Are you saying Honda build Harleys???

Or am I totaly missing your point here....

[harleyfatboy]

NO you made a statement the americans do one thing rather well i said its not the only thing they do well cut the cake how you wish....ON A STEEL HORSE I RIDE

[FWH]

Originally Posted by harleyfatboy

NO you made a statement the americans do one thing rather well i said its not the only thing they do well cut the cake how you wish....ON A STEEL HORSE I RIDE

Got it now...being a bit thick today!

1) Don´t drive French cars
2) Build Harleys
3) Do good steaks




But that´s about it I think....

...and I know a few places where "Honda build Harleys" would have been my last words....LOL...