A polite request - Re: Customs Charging.

James@Touge · 23rd January 2010, 18:31

Guys,

I've tried to educate as much as I can about customs/import charges.

It's now come to the time where I'm going to have to ask you to stop asking us to "mark as gift", or "put lower value on invoice".

For the following reasons;

a) It's illegal. You're asking us to break the law. We are not going to break the law to secure the order. We understand in some countries you might have to pay 20% extra on the invoice amount. This is what happens when you import parts from outside the EU. Whether that be USA, Australia or Japan.

b) Insurance. If we invoice your Toda exhaust system at £50 value, yes we are breaking the law, and yes you won't pay as much customs charges. BUT, what if the parcel was lost or damaged in transit? The item will only be worth £50 (Not £900 like you paid). We don't want to be in this position to have to recover that £50 (some carriers have excess anyway!), and I'm sure you don't want to either.

c) It leaves us open to investigation in Japan. You can’t receive ¥1,000,000 Yen in and only invoice ¥10,000 Yen. Under money laundering laws we’d get closed down and investigated! There are some stiff penalties for this type of crime. Japan spends trillions of Yen a year on trade deals with the West. Small companies can screw these trade relationships up by “grey” exporting and allowing companies overseas to avoid taxation in their native countries.

We know other outfits in Japan are doing this and so far, have got away with it. But one thing this recession has done is damage Japans currency value and therefore reduced its GNP. Small companies looking to benefit unfairly WILL get caught and WILL be punished.

Bottom line is we don’t care that other companies are doing it. We don’t care if they are BIG companies. We don’t care if US companies do it. If they want to risk:

Their customer having goods seized and confiscated
Their customer being fined by their native customs authority
Their customer having a criminal record
Their company fined

..to get the sale that is up to them. It just bring the entire industry down as for anyone to survive (especially in this climate) they are forced to break the law also. All you’ll end up with is no decent companies left and the crooks will still be trading always looking over their shoulder wondering when the next knock at the door is coming from the law. IS that the type of company you want to buy from? Would you buy a Toda header on Oxford street from a guy with a spring up pasting table and a suitcase?

We run as a legal company to ensure we are still here in 2 years and continuing to provide you with the parts and service you want. Not cutting corners, not dodging tax and not putting our customer’s money and goods at risk.

Some food for thought:
This guy got 5 years for having fish imported to the USA as another breed. Thus skipping any duty/VAT: FDA Debars Convicted Virginia Seafood Dealer from Importing Food for 20 Years

From HMRC:
Under international postal agreements the sender must complete a customs declaration (CN22 or CN23) which in most cases should be fixed to the package. The declaration includes a description of the goods, the value and whether they are gifts or commercial items. Any Post Office abroad should be able to give advice to the sender.

You are legally responsible for the information on the declaration ; therefore it is in your own interest to ensure, wherever possible, that the sender abroad makes a complete and accurate declaration. If no declaration is made, or the information is inaccurate, the package may be delayed while we make further enquiries, or in some cases the package and its contents may be seized.
HMRC statement on “gifts”:

Goods sent as a gift that are over £40 in value are liable to import VAT. Customs duty also becomes payable if the value of the goods is over £135 but is waived if the amount of duty calculated is less than £9.
To qualify as a gift:

the customs declaration must be completed correctly
the gift must be sent from a private person outside the EU to a private person(s) in this country
there is no commercial or trade element and the gift has not been paid for either directly or indirectly
the gift is of an occasional nature only, for example, for a birthday or anniversary.

We have spent years building our website, we list more parts than any other parts site for Japanese cars and we have competitive prices.

Here is an example of some of customer’s purchases:

ARC Intake for DC5/EP3:
Price shipped: £435
Going rate in the UK: £550-£650
Js Racing Carbon Intake for EP3:
Price shipped: £822
Going rate in the UK: £1030 - £1400
Kakimoto Regu06R for DC5
Price shipped: £760
Going rate in the UK: £1000-£1200

Even after taxes based there are savings to be had.
Let alone the speed. Nearly all companies in the UK ship items (especially large ones) by sea freight which is a 40-50 day service + lead time in Japan. Many customers on Type R Owners have waited 3-4 months for items that were out of stock in Japan. Bumpers and other aero parts can’t all be stocked here for space reasons. So ordering a Js Racing bumper means you pay a deposit up front and then sit and wait. We can source the item in Japan just as fast but give you flexible shipping options to get the parts to you based on your budget.
The law on duties and tax do change per country. But they are roughly the same. We will not put customers parts and money at risk and us in the firing line to secure a sale. So please, do not ask.

FWH · 23rd January 2010, 19:49

Just in case anyone is wondering, as someone with extensive experience in international logistics, I can confirm that this post is accurate.

Davek · 24th January 2010, 13:33

Got to admit though even when the currency conversion rates arent as great as they used to be the savings are still great.

For a example I have managed to buy the Mugen Grill & Mugen oil cap (which is about £50ish) and it still costs less than what just the grill would be over here.....even with the taxes Im gonna save about £50 and thats getting 2 Mugen items!

I for one am glad to use Touge, I would rather know that im dealing with a company who isnt risking my money, products & there reputation.

Once again James has always kept me updated with my orders and helped out with everything I have needed from simple site use to tech advice about the K20 engine.

stuk20a2 · 24th January 2010, 21:10

Well put together thread james totally agree with what you are saying. I to occasionally have people through my business asking me similar questions with regards to importing items and such like i give them one simple answer NO! as its my name and reputatuion on the line.

Members take note of what James has said and dont put him in the position where he or the business would have to break the law!

R555 · 24th January 2010, 21:55

Just a quick question on this matter...

Do you end up paying local VAT and then UK VAT?

James@Touge · 25th January 2010, 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by R555

Just a quick question on this matter...

Do you end up paying local VAT and then UK VAT?

No, the parts we export from Japan aren't subject to their 5% tax.

fat4y · 25th January 2010, 14:16

Thanks james..hope i did all right?lol

besides..whatever is ordered here will still be cheaper at retail

R555 · 10th February 2010, 19:51

Hi James,

Just wanted to let you know the Mugen parts arrived, thanks! Nothing was attached to the package regarding customs charge, or will I get an invoice to pay the customs charge?

Regarding the Mugen bits I just wanted to say WOW! The quality is awesome! I'll be ordering the grill and intake soon!

Thanks again for a great service.

James@Touge · 10th February 2010, 19:53

Hi mate,

If you have them now, it means no customs charges at all.....

Quality!

Enjoy!

James@Touge.

R555 · 10th February 2010, 20:01

Excellent! That makes the parts even cheaper as I was prepared to pay whatever the customs charge happened to be....

James@Touge · 10th February 2010, 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by R555

Excellent! That makes the parts even cheaper as I was prepared to pay whatever the customs charge happened to be....

Bonus! Get pics up of the parts

Josh1987 · 10th February 2010, 22:44

Hope fully wont get much of a Charge on my Mugen Oil Cap and Seeker Rad Cap

James@Touge · 10th February 2010, 22:45

Fingers crossed Josh!

Josh1987 · 10th February 2010, 22:47

I have to say James im really like the new Layout of the site find it much easier to find parts and the Currency Converter that is Automatic is great

Will end up buying all parts from them in Future apart from things you don't have of course

James@Touge · 10th February 2010, 22:49

Thanks Josh, if there's anything which isn't listed, but you know comes from Japan, please let me know..! (It just means we haven't got round to adding it to the store yet!)

James.

J. Derek Riddell · 10th February 2010, 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by James@Touge

Hi mate, If you have them now, it means no customs charges at all.....

Quality! Enjoy! James@Touge.

Happens to me, now and then ...

I buy a lot over the Internet, and every so often (unfathomably - given the innate avariciousness of the Norwegian Customs Service) a package from overseas will sail through untouched ...

And I'm talking about about a flat £15 per package Import Fee, plus 25% VAT ! ...

James@Touge · 10th February 2010, 23:03

Yep, happens here too. It's the luck of the drawer!

s_zigmond · 11th February 2010, 12:20

Hi James,

Just out of interest do you always use the same courier? If not this may explain some people getting charged and some not. Having dealt with importing things from china, I found that some couriers always seemed to get charged and others never did.

It may have just been conincidence, but I would be interested in your thoughts.

Stephen

James@Touge · 11th February 2010, 12:25

Yes we always use the same EMS/SAL service. From which Parcelforce deals with in this country.

RickHondaR · 11th February 2010, 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by s_zigmond

Hi James,

Just out of interest do you always use the same courier? If not this may explain some people getting charged and some not. Having dealt with importing things from china, I found that some couriers always seemed to get charged and others never did.

It may have just been conincidence, but I would be interested in your thoughts.

Stephen

I have found the charge various with the courier for example DHL charge a £1.50 admin fee on top of the import tax but Royal Mail charge £8 admin fee on top

23rd January 2010, 18:31	#1 (permalink)
James@Touge PM Matt@Touge - not me! Car: 2005 Premier EP3 Join Date: 27th November 2009 Location: Wilts, UK Posts: 1,059 Thanks given: 77 Thanked 76 Times in 69 Posts iTrader: (1)	A polite request - Re: Customs Charging. Guys, I've tried to educate as much as I can about customs/import charges. It's now come to the time where I'm going to have to ask you to stop asking us to "mark as gift", or "put lower value on invoice". For the following reasons; a) It's illegal. You're asking us to break the law. We are not going to break the law to secure the order. We understand in some countries you might have to pay 20% extra on the invoice amount. This is what happens when you import parts from outside the EU. Whether that be USA, Australia or Japan. b) Insurance. If we invoice your Toda exhaust system at £50 value, yes we are breaking the law, and yes you won't pay as much customs charges. BUT, what if the parcel was lost or damaged in transit? The item will only be worth £50 (Not £900 like you paid). We don't want to be in this position to have to recover that £50 (some carriers have excess anyway!), and I'm sure you don't want to either. c) It leaves us open to investigation in Japan. You can’t receive ¥1,000,000 Yen in and only invoice ¥10,000 Yen. Under money laundering laws we’d get closed down and investigated! There are some stiff penalties for this type of crime. Japan spends trillions of Yen a year on trade deals with the West. Small companies can screw these trade relationships up by “grey” exporting and allowing companies overseas to avoid taxation in their native countries. We know other outfits in Japan are doing this and so far, have got away with it. But one thing this recession has done is damage Japans currency value and therefore reduced its GNP. Small companies looking to benefit unfairly WILL get caught and WILL be punished. Bottom line is we don’t care that other companies are doing it. We don’t care if they are BIG companies. We don’t care if US companies do it. If they want to risk: Their customer having goods seized and confiscated Their customer being fined by their native customs authority Their customer having a criminal record Their company fined ..to get the sale that is up to them. It just bring the entire industry down as for anyone to survive (especially in this climate) they are forced to break the law also. All you’ll end up with is no decent companies left and the crooks will still be trading always looking over their shoulder wondering when the next knock at the door is coming from the law. IS that the type of company you want to buy from? Would you buy a Toda header on Oxford street from a guy with a spring up pasting table and a suitcase? We run as a legal company to ensure we are still here in 2 years and continuing to provide you with the parts and service you want. Not cutting corners, not dodging tax and not putting our customer’s money and goods at risk. Some food for thought: This guy got 5 years for having fish imported to the USA as another breed. Thus skipping any duty/VAT: FDA Debars Convicted Virginia Seafood Dealer from Importing Food for 20 Years From HMRC: Under international postal agreements the sender must complete a customs declaration (CN22 or CN23) which in most cases should be fixed to the package. The declaration includes a description of the goods, the value and whether they are gifts or commercial items. Any Post Office abroad should be able to give advice to the sender. You are legally responsible for the information on the declaration ; therefore it is in your own interest to ensure, wherever possible, that the sender abroad makes a complete and accurate declaration. If no declaration is made, or the information is inaccurate, the package may be delayed while we make further enquiries, or in some cases the package and its contents may be seized. HMRC statement on “gifts”: Goods sent as a gift that are over £40 in value are liable to import VAT. Customs duty also becomes payable if the value of the goods is over £135 but is waived if the amount of duty calculated is less than £9. To qualify as a gift: the customs declaration must be completed correctly the gift must be sent from a private person outside the EU to a private person(s) in this country there is no commercial or trade element and the gift has not been paid for either directly or indirectly the gift is of an occasional nature only, for example, for a birthday or anniversary. We have spent years building our website, we list more parts than any other parts site for Japanese cars and we have competitive prices. Here is an example of some of customer’s purchases: ARC Intake for DC5/EP3: Price shipped: £435 Going rate in the UK: £550-£650 Js Racing Carbon Intake for EP3: Price shipped: £822 Going rate in the UK: £1030 - £1400 Kakimoto Regu06R for DC5 Price shipped: £760 Going rate in the UK: £1000-£1200 Even after taxes based there are savings to be had. Let alone the speed. Nearly all companies in the UK ship items (especially large ones) by sea freight which is a 40-50 day service + lead time in Japan. Many customers on Type R Owners have waited 3-4 months for items that were out of stock in Japan. Bumpers and other aero parts can’t all be stocked here for space reasons. So ordering a Js Racing bumper means you pay a deposit up front and then sit and wait. We can source the item in Japan just as fast but give you flexible shipping options to get the parts to you based on your budget. The law on duties and tax do change per country. But they are roughly the same. We will not put customers parts and money at risk and us in the firing line to secure a sale. So please, do not ask.

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23rd January 2010, 19:49	#2 (permalink)
FWH Super Moderator Car: MX-5 & V70 Join Date: 3rd June 2007 Location: Where Polar Bears roam the streets Posts: 22,076 Thanks given: 506 Thanked 955 Times in 724 Posts iTrader: (0)	Just in case anyone is wondering, as someone with extensive experience in international logistics, I can confirm that this post is accurate.

24th January 2010, 13:33	#3 (permalink)
Davek Supporter Car: 2007 CTR GT in Milano Join Date: 15th March 2009 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 1,031 Thanks given: 32 Thanked 100 Times in 94 Posts iTrader: (11)	Got to admit though even when the currency conversion rates arent as great as they used to be the savings are still great. For a example I have managed to buy the Mugen Grill & Mugen oil cap (which is about £50ish) and it still costs less than what just the grill would be over here.....even with the taxes Im gonna save about £50 and thats getting 2 Mugen items! I for one am glad to use Touge, I would rather know that im dealing with a company who isnt risking my money, products & there reputation. Once again James has always kept me updated with my orders and helped out with everything I have needed from simple site use to tech advice about the K20 engine.

24th January 2010, 21:10	#4 (permalink)
stuk20a2 Born Fighter Car: CTR GT SAT NAV+ HFT Join Date: 9th July 2009 Location: Cheshire/Staffs Posts: 447 Thanks given: 43 Thanked 29 Times in 29 Posts iTrader: (0)	Well put together thread james totally agree with what you are saying. I to occasionally have people through my business asking me similar questions with regards to importing items and such like i give them one simple answer NO! as its my name and reputatuion on the line. Members take note of what James has said and dont put him in the position where he or the business would have to break the law!

24th January 2010, 21:55	#5 (permalink)
R555 Supporter Car: 2007 CTR, Milano Red Join Date: 17th November 2009 Location: North Yorks Posts: 5,142 Thanks given: 819 Thanked 403 Times in 376 Posts iTrader: (6)	Just a quick question on this matter... Do you end up paying local VAT and then UK VAT?

25th January 2010, 14:16	#7 (permalink)
fat4y The Property Man Car: 2007 VW Beetle 1.6 Join Date: 7th November 2008 Location: Glasgow Posts: 6,046 Thanks given: 24 Thanked 371 Times in 365 Posts iTrader: (6)	Thanks james..hope i did all right?lol besides..whatever is ordered here will still be cheaper at retail

10th February 2010, 19:51	#8 (permalink)
R555 Supporter Car: 2007 CTR, Milano Red Join Date: 17th November 2009 Location: North Yorks Posts: 5,142 Thanks given: 819 Thanked 403 Times in 376 Posts iTrader: (6)	Hi James, Just wanted to let you know the Mugen parts arrived, thanks! Nothing was attached to the package regarding customs charge, or will I get an invoice to pay the customs charge? Regarding the Mugen bits I just wanted to say WOW! The quality is awesome! I'll be ordering the grill and intake soon! Thanks again for a great service.

10th February 2010, 19:53	#9 (permalink)
James@Touge PM Matt@Touge - not me! Thread starter Car: 2005 Premier EP3 Join Date: 27th November 2009 Location: Wilts, UK Posts: 1,059 Thanks given: 77 Thanked 76 Times in 69 Posts iTrader: (1)	Hi mate, If you have them now, it means no customs charges at all..... Quality! Enjoy! James@Touge.

10th February 2010, 20:01	#10 (permalink)
R555 Supporter Car: 2007 CTR, Milano Red Join Date: 17th November 2009 Location: North Yorks Posts: 5,142 Thanks given: 819 Thanked 403 Times in 376 Posts iTrader: (6)	Excellent! That makes the parts even cheaper as I was prepared to pay whatever the customs charge happened to be....

10th February 2010, 22:44	#12 (permalink)
Josh1987 The White Knight Car: 2009 CTR CW Join Date: 4th May 2009 Location: Pickering Posts: 1,471 Thanks given: 14 Thanked 71 Times in 66 Posts iTrader: (3)	Hope fully wont get much of a Charge on my Mugen Oil Cap and Seeker Rad Cap

10th February 2010, 22:45	#13 (permalink)
James@Touge PM Matt@Touge - not me! Thread starter Car: 2005 Premier EP3 Join Date: 27th November 2009 Location: Wilts, UK Posts: 1,059 Thanks given: 77 Thanked 76 Times in 69 Posts iTrader: (1)	Fingers crossed Josh!

10th February 2010, 22:47	#14 (permalink)
Josh1987 The White Knight Car: 2009 CTR CW Join Date: 4th May 2009 Location: Pickering Posts: 1,471 Thanks given: 14 Thanked 71 Times in 66 Posts iTrader: (3)	I have to say James im really like the new Layout of the site find it much easier to find parts and the Currency Converter that is Automatic is great Will end up buying all parts from them in Future apart from things you don't have of course

10th February 2010, 22:49	#15 (permalink)
James@Touge PM Matt@Touge - not me! Thread starter Car: 2005 Premier EP3 Join Date: 27th November 2009 Location: Wilts, UK Posts: 1,059 Thanks given: 77 Thanked 76 Times in 69 Posts iTrader: (1)	Thanks Josh, if there's anything which isn't listed, but you know comes from Japan, please let me know..! (It just means we haven't got round to adding it to the store yet!) James.

10th February 2010, 23:03	#17 (permalink)
James@Touge PM Matt@Touge - not me! Thread starter Car: 2005 Premier EP3 Join Date: 27th November 2009 Location: Wilts, UK Posts: 1,059 Thanks given: 77 Thanked 76 Times in 69 Posts iTrader: (1)	Yep, happens here too. It's the luck of the drawer!

11th February 2010, 12:20	#18 (permalink)
s_zigmond Supporter Car: 2008 2.2 Type S (now gone) Join Date: 11th September 2008 Location: Leeds Posts: 693 Thanks given: 8 Thanked 19 Times in 19 Posts iTrader: (4)	Hi James, Just out of interest do you always use the same courier? If not this may explain some people getting charged and some not. Having dealt with importing things from china, I found that some couriers always seemed to get charged and others never did. It may have just been conincidence, but I would be interested in your thoughts. Stephen

11th February 2010, 12:25	#19 (permalink)
James@Touge PM Matt@Touge - not me! Thread starter Car: 2005 Premier EP3 Join Date: 27th November 2009 Location: Wilts, UK Posts: 1,059 Thanks given: 77 Thanked 76 Times in 69 Posts iTrader: (1)	Yes we always use the same EMS/SAL service. From which Parcelforce deals with in this country.