Head HID installation confusion

[dragonglance]

Hi guys, i have bought for my type s a HID upgrade kit but could not come to a conclusion in the forum as to whether it is legal for me to install them on my car by myself, it is kind of frustrating as i have spent £150 on something that may now proove to be illegal if i use them.

[FWH]

I am not an expert on UK law, but have a look at these posts:

AfterMarket Xenon/HID Kits?

AfterMarket Xenon/HID Kits?

[Dave 8o]]

It's not illegal to convert your headlights to HID, but to do it, you need to install self levelling headlamp assemblies and headlamp washers, just replacing the halogen bulbs with HID bulbs is illegal. Check out the link for further info.

Department for Transport - Aftermarket HID (Xenon) headlamps

[civicfan]

I'm afraid at £150 you cannot expect self-levelling so you can probably
- return or re-sell it
- install and hope no one will notice (and get BIG trouble if it's discovered)

[dragonglance]

i think i will just send them back and get a refund and just by the super bright Phillips ones which have been great on my old civic. Thanks for the info guys

[XCGuard]

I fitted HID lamps to my impreza and it passed its MOT at the main dealers no problem. As long as they are adjusted correctly when the leveling switch in the car is set to 0 and the beam pattern coming out is correct then you should be fine. I checked with 3 different local MOT stations and they all said they would pass it aslong as it was set right and the beam pattern was fine.

The choice is yours.

[TTDegs]

as discussed a few times in here, there is a potential world of difference between having a valid MOT, and having a legal car.
Or indeed, an insured car...

Personally, I wouldn't want to be the poor (in both senses) owner who found out the hard way that I was facing points on the license, and paying for full time care of some other driver who has been hurt in an accident

[dragonglance]

ok guys just to update you and possible add more confusion i have emailied the company that i bought the HID upgrades from and told them concerns and this is the reply i have got back:

Hi Toby

Thanks for your email. UK regulations state that if a NEW car is sold with Xenon lights, it should have leveling lights and headlamp washers fitted. Our main concern is that our kits are installed in vehicles whose headlamp units are of suitable design quality not to cause a wide scattering of light, thereby being a problem to other road users – I’ve seen them installed to ‘70s Volvos with shocking results! We have sold many kits for a wide variety of vehicles, none of which have had problems at MoT time, with the proviso that the headlamps are adjusted correctly (I’ve had them on my A4 for almost 3 years now without problems).

Generally speaking, cars more than 10 years old are unlikely to have suitable lenses, due either to age deterioration or design (although there are exceptions). Cars fitted with projector style lights (sometimes referred to as ‘angel-eyes’) are the most suitable, as the light is focused and directed by a lens/reflector combination. Later model cars with computer designed reflectors and clear lenses also have good beam pattern focusing


So there we go now i am officially confused?!?!?!?

What now do i ebay them or install them and risk it??

[alanwalne]

I would not risk it, and also the Civic does not have projector lights.

If it was that easy, whywould manufacturers goto the expense they do for HID lights.

[TTDegs]

Originally Posted by alanwalne

I would not risk it, and also the Civic does not have projector lights.

If it was that easy, whywould manufacturers goto the expense they do for HID lights.

I'm with Alan on this - personally I wouldn't even consider fitting them - potential risks far outweigh the benefits

[mrh339]

Fact sheet: Aftermarket HID headlamps

December 2006

In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.
The following is the legal rationale:
The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.
However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).
For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.
Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:
1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.
2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).
3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.
In practice this means:
1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.
2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.
Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.
In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.
If you require any further information regarding the regulations covered by this fact sheet, please contact the DfT at the address below:
Transport Technology and Standards 6
Department for Transport
Zone 2/04
Great Minster House
76 Marsham Street
London
SW1P 4DR
Telephone: 020 7944 2078
Fax: 020 7944 2196
Email: TTS.enquiries@dft.gsi.gov.uk

[TTDegs]

Link to the above Fact Sheet -> Department for Transport - Aftermarket HID (Xenon) headlamps

published May 2007

many thanks mrh

[mrh339]

Many thanks for the link.

[gm1980]

Hi Guys,

I've ordered the new civic 1.8 EX (in Cyprus is identified as Business) which is HID already updated with self leveling headlights. Do you have any idea how the bulbs of this car look like? Do I need any further modifications If I install orsam or philips bulbs? Does anyone know if those bulbs have sufficient lighting so that i won't need any replacement?

[Foggy69]

Originally Posted by gm1980

Hi Guys,

I've ordered the new civic 1.8 EX (in Cyprus is identified as Business) which is HID already updated with self leveling headlights. Do you have any idea how the bulbs of this car look like? Do I need any further modifications If I install orsam or philips bulbs? Does anyone know if those bulbs have sufficient lighting so that i won't need any replacement?

If the car is already fitted with HID, that is the best set-up you can have.

[mrh339]

Originally Posted by gm1980

Hi Guys,

I've ordered the new civic 1.8 EX (in Cyprus is identified as Business) which is HID already updated with self leveling headlights. Do you have any idea how the bulbs of this car look like? Do I need any further modifications If I install orsam or philips bulbs? Does anyone know if those bulbs have sufficient lighting so that i won't need any replacement?

HID is on low beam only, I uprated my high beam lights(h1's) to osram nightbreakers. Cost £15 and took only 5 minutes to do. Easy job and well worth doing as they claim to be 90% brighter than standard bulbs.

[Unknownsoldier]

BMW were going to fit HID's to my car for me, but at 4000 pounds I thought it was a bit pricey, so I went direct ot hella, and bought the exact same kit for 600, I checked with BMW and they said all parts were there, guess what no self levelling no cleaning items, and all still in the opinion of the MOT, BMW & Hella UK 100% legal, now that was in 05', that edict was issued 06', so how come no b*gger knows about these???? (i checked each time it was serviced etc. and tevery time was told nope 100% legal, just not on new cars, older ones can apparently have them though!?? not sure there but thats what I was told) Mine also passed muster from a Traffic cop who I was friendly with, as he said, as long as they don't cause glare and are properly maintained & E marked, I can see no problem with them.

So the choice is yours.......seems no b*gger really understands whats going on with these........

I have also heard that HID on the Civ' is crap compared to those projector units as installed on BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc. Anyone driven both and prepared to comment????

Tom

Tom

[TTDegs]

I would say that the HIDs on my Civ are on a par with the ones I used to have on my TT


And you can bet your bottom dollar (possibly literally if you fit them...) that the insurance companies know whether they are legal or not
Or at very least, you just know that they have that doc above pre-printed along with this letter:

"Dear sir
thank you for your claim.
Unfortunately, our accident assessor has examined your car, and discovered that you have fitted aftermarket HID units.
Because your accident happened at night, and because fitting these units is in contravention of the enclosed DFT statement, I'm afraid that we will be unable to pay you for your claim.

If you wish to persue this further, may we humbly sugest you employ a blinking good (and expensive) lawyer.

We would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your custom.
However, as you had not informed us of this significant change to your vehicle, we have now marked your file as a fraudulent claim, and this information will be shared with other insurance companies, including (but not limited to):
car insurance;
house insurance;
life assurance;
mortgage protection insurance;
credit card repayment insurance.


kind regards
your loving insuance company"



I'll shut up now - think I may have made my thoughts on the matter pretty clear...

[TTDegs]

Originally Posted by gm1980

Hi Guys,

I've ordered the new civic 1.8 EX (in Cyprus is identified as Business) which is HID already updated with self leveling headlights. Do you have any idea how the bulbs of this car look like? Do I need any further modifications If I install orsam or philips bulbs? Does anyone know if those bulbs have sufficient lighting so that i won't need any replacement?

You may want to upgrade the main beam, as suggested by mrh, and the nightbreakers are considered to be very good

You may also want to change the sidelight bulbs - they don't give out any real light to speak of, but are quite 'yellow' as standard, especially next to the HIDs

check out the FAQ links at the to of the page for the right bulb sizes, and have a good read of this section of the forum - quite a few people have put before and after pics up

and welcome aboard!

[dragonglance]

I am going to email that terms and conditions to the company and see what they say i doubt very much i will get a reply. As i want to fight this as they are not offering me a full refund they are wriggling and saying they need to charge a restocking fee etc which is a joke. I am losing about 50 quid by sending these back.