HID AfterMarket Xenon/HID Kits? - Page 3

Dream Weaver · 6th February 2007, 16:26

Well i'll still be fitting mine to the 205, its a roadside swap/plug and play back to Halogens if needs be

czechplastik · 6th February 2007, 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dream Weaver

Well i'll still be fitting mine to the 205, its a roadside swap/plug and play back to Halogens if needs be

You obviously fancy being prosecuted...

Dream Weaver · 6th February 2007, 19:55

Not at all, but of all the people I know with aftermarket HID kits fitted, none of them have had problems with the law or at MOT time.

Plus its a weekend car that does 1k miles a year, mostly at day time so they wont be used much, just fitting them cos they were free

TTDegs · 6th February 2007, 23:58

it's one of those 'take your chances' choices...

On the plus side: (in no order!)
better visibility
cool looks

On the down side: (also in no order)
good chance they are illegal. Which means that if you crash at night, good chance your insurance will be void.
it's as good an excuse as a bored copper will need to pull you over.
potential to blind drivers coming in opposite direction as no washers fitted. see point 1.

Dream Weaver · 7th February 2007, 10:14

Good point on the insurance, will have to check with them before fitting.

Bungle · 8th February 2007, 20:52

There is a good article in this issie of ADI NEWS, regardign the alarming trend of illegally fitted HID bulbs in headlamp units not designed for it.

The bottom line is that it is illegel to retro-fit the lamps. As the housing/reflector is not designed for that kind of lamp, it scatters the beam so it no longer falls within the guidlines.

Then there's the whole problem of no washers, and no leveling system.

Worryingly, a whole goup of suppliers were questioned by as if from a potential buyer, and all of the advice given was just plain wrong and illegal.

The moral of the story? Don't try it, it will fail an MOT and is dangerous.

If anybody is interested in reading it, I will scan it and post it up here.

Foggy69 · 8th February 2007, 21:14

ADI???

When I bought my HID kit, I had to sign a disclaimer saying they were for off road use only, so at least one company is being honest.

As to fitting HID to see better in the dark, buy some Philips 50% brighter bulbs. A lot cheaper, and make a surprising amount of difference.

czechplastik · 8th February 2007, 22:32

I'm glad most people are agreeing with me on this. Really is dangerous.

Dream Weaver · 8th February 2007, 23:04

The thing is they don't fail the MOT, so something is wrong somewhere?

czechplastik · 8th February 2007, 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dream Weaver

The thing is they don't fail the MOT, so something is wrong somewhere?

They will fail an MOT.

Dream Weaver · 8th February 2007, 23:23

But they don't

I have 4 or 5 friends dotted around the UK with HIDs fitted to various older cars, Pugs, Rovers etc. In some cases they've had them fitted for 4 years or more and none of them have ever failed the MOT on them.

czechplastik · 9th February 2007, 00:20

My concern is that they blind other motorists and could potentially cause an accident. If thats not off-putting enough I don't know what is!

TTDegs · 9th February 2007, 00:39

I'm guessing that the point is that they should fail the MOT, as being not legal.
(that's should as in fact, not opinion

)

But, at the end of the day, how many times have we seen Auto Express et al run 'shock' exposures of cars that should be scrapped getting an MOT pass.

For me, as I mentioned above, I'd be less concerned about failing an MOT, and rather more concerned with being involved in a crash at night.

Note thats 'involved in' not 'causing'...

Say you are happily driving down the road, perfectly legally (except HIDs

), at night.
Car in opposite direction, driver is arguing with his girlfriend, looses concentration, and drives into you.
Air bags pop all over the place in the Civic, both cars a write off, you are ok, but other driver is in a knackered old Ford and ends up paralysed from the waist down.

Police arrive on scene.

Sharp eyed copper notices your HIDs.
Which go into the police report.
Which is given to each insurance company.
Which the other driver gets hold of.

Or his girlfriend overhears the copper / notices your HIDs / whatever.

His story of events now reads:
I was driving along, when I was suddenly blinded by the car coming in the opposite direction.
I attempted to stop, but as I could not see anything, I must have swerved into his path.

Do you really believe that at this stage your insurance co is going to fight tooth and nail for you in the hope that they win the case? When the chances are that you will loose, and they will have a huge payout?
Or are they going to drop you like a lead ballon and walk away with zero costs - and you with no insurance?

Now.

At this point, your £200 HID conversion has cost you:
£200 for the kit
£16,000 for a written off Civic
£20,000 (?) per year for life for the other driver
£gawd knows how much fine for driving with no insurance
£gawd knows how much fine for driving without due care - or worse, dangerous driving.

Would I fit them?

TTDegs · 9th February 2007, 00:40

Can you tell how many times I re-wrote that last post?

CP's wasn't there when I started to reply!

czechplastik · 9th February 2007, 00:51

Thats a pretty good example of my thinking TT, just fleshed out a little and made more understandable! Thanks! Being able to dodge an MOT or skip a fine really isn't the issue, It doesn't matter how many people you know that have them fitted, lots of people deal drugs and its still illegal.

There's nothing more annoying than being blinded by oncoming vehicles on back roads, you flash them to remind them to dip their beams only to realise later (and after redfocusing your eyes!) that they were dipped the whole time and just incorrectly and illegally fitted.

Sorry to rant on everyone and not having a go at you weaver, but poorly adjusted lights and fog lights frustrate me like nothing else!

Dream Weaver · 9th February 2007, 09:00

That is the big worry, and i'm glad that the insurance think has been mentioned, as its the main thing stopping me fitting them now.

The MOT rules should be changed if the kits are illegal.

The main problem is the cheap kits that are out there. My kit was £300, although I got it FOC from a customer.

The bulbs in mine are completely shielded with a metal shield, and have a solenoid that operates between hi and lo beam - the beam pattern is an exact copy of the std H4 beam pattern, with no dispersal or dazzling. They also operate at 20w LESS than halogen bulbs, so the part about running hot bulbs within std headlights is wrong, as they don't actually get as hot as a halogen.

So the kit I have doesnt dazzle anyone, doesnt disperse the beam pattern, operates at less wattage than std halogens. The advantage is it gets rid of the dreadful "yellowness" of the std 205 lights, and provides a brighter, whiter light.

Maybe the MOT laws should be changed to offer HID testing, of someone could offer an approved HID test for retro fit kits? I would happily pay £25-50 to have the kit tested when fitted and receive a certificate for insurance etc

I smell a business opportunity there

Foggy69 · 9th February 2007, 11:19

Wow TT, great post. It made me really think about the issue.
As I have already said, I did have a HID kit fitted to my previous car, but it had the projector type (I think this is the proper name) headlamp which focus's the light very clearly. With the kit fitted, I don't remember being flashed once.
DW, I think the problem with the older reflector style of headlamp is not that the light from the bulb is directly dazzling oncoming cars, but it is the intensity of the light as it is reflected on the back of the headlight unit. The HID fills the reflector with a very bright light in a way that halogen bulbs can't

As for the general use of HID, even cars fitted with them from the factory, that comply with all the regulations and have self levelling and washers, STILL blind you. Should they be banned altogether

Dream Weaver · 9th February 2007, 12:09

I'll do some more digging before fitting mine.

In general I like HID lights, and have never been dazzled by them. They do that colour change thing when coming towards you, but i've never had to squint at them, no more than std headlights.

TTDegs · 9th February 2007, 16:19

Don't get me wrong - I love HID lights - they were a significant reason for me going for the EX

And I'm sure that there are companies out there who's products are non-dazzling (until you get 3 ton of stuff in your boot, and the non-existent self leveling system means they are focusing upwards not downwards).

But for me, until Dream Weaver gets his business off the ground (

), the risk outweighs the benefit of a retro fit

damianscott71 · 12th February 2007, 00:14

Interestingly (or not as the case may be), Autoexpress had a video report on their website regarding retro fitted HID/Xenon headlights. The upshot being the they could well become illegal and will most probably fail MOT tests in the UK.

Apparently, the reflector behind the lamp is shaped differently for HID, than standard headlight bulbs. And by fitting an HID into a reflector designed for your common or garden headlight bulb, the headlight pattern suffers from "leakage" which can dazzle oncoming motorists, etc.

I can't find the link to the footage now, if I find it, I'll add it to my post.

Or, you can try to find it at www.autoexpress.co.uk

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This thread is about: AfterMarket Xenon/HID Kits?, it's in Lights at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; Well i'll still be fitting mine to the 205, its a roadside swap/plug and play back to Halogens if needs be...

6th February 2007, 16:26	#41 (permalink)
Dream Weaver Valve Cap Join Date: 29th January 2007 Location: Lancs Posts: 44 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Well i'll still be fitting mine to the 205, its a roadside swap/plug and play back to Halogens if needs be

6th February 2007, 19:55	#43 (permalink)
Dream Weaver Valve Cap Join Date: 29th January 2007 Location: Lancs Posts: 44 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Not at all, but of all the people I know with aftermarket HID kits fitted, none of them have had problems with the law or at MOT time. Plus its a weekend car that does 1k miles a year, mostly at day time so they wont be used much, just fitting them cos they were free

6th February 2007, 23:58	#44 (permalink)
TTDegs Super Moderator Civinfo master Join Date: 4th August 2006 Location: Cardiff Posts: 5,638 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	it's one of those 'take your chances' choices... On the plus side: (in no order!) better visibility cool looks On the down side: (also in no order) good chance they are illegal. Which means that if you crash at night, good chance your insurance will be void. it's as good an excuse as a bored copper will need to pull you over. potential to blind drivers coming in opposite direction as no washers fitted. see point 1.

7th February 2007, 10:14	#45 (permalink)
Dream Weaver Valve Cap Join Date: 29th January 2007 Location: Lancs Posts: 44 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Good point on the insurance, will have to check with them before fitting.

8th February 2007, 20:52	#46 (permalink)
Bungle Rocketship door handle Join Date: 3rd July 2006 Location: SE London/Kent Posts: 1,220 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	There is a good article in this issie of ADI NEWS, regardign the alarming trend of illegally fitted HID bulbs in headlamp units not designed for it. The bottom line is that it is illegel to retro-fit the lamps. As the housing/reflector is not designed for that kind of lamp, it scatters the beam so it no longer falls within the guidlines. Then there's the whole problem of no washers, and no leveling system. Worryingly, a whole goup of suppliers were questioned by as if from a potential buyer, and all of the advice given was just plain wrong and illegal. The moral of the story? Don't try it, it will fail an MOT and is dangerous. If anybody is interested in reading it, I will scan it and post it up here.

8th February 2007, 21:14	#47 (permalink)
Foggy69 Vivid Blue Rocks!!! Rocketship door handle Join Date: 5th December 2006 Location: Westerham Posts: 1,080 Thanks: 2 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts iTrader: (0)	ADI??? When I bought my HID kit, I had to sign a disclaimer saying they were for off road use only, so at least one company is being honest. As to fitting HID to see better in the dark, buy some Philips 50% brighter bulbs. A lot cheaper, and make a surprising amount of difference.

8th February 2007, 22:32	#48 (permalink)
czechplastik King of the rodeo Civinfo guru Join Date: 24th October 2006 Location: Belfast Posts: 4,672 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	I'm glad most people are agreeing with me on this. Really is dangerous.

8th February 2007, 23:04	#49 (permalink)
Dream Weaver Valve Cap Join Date: 29th January 2007 Location: Lancs Posts: 44 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	The thing is they don't fail the MOT, so something is wrong somewhere?

8th February 2007, 23:23	#51 (permalink)
Dream Weaver Valve Cap Join Date: 29th January 2007 Location: Lancs Posts: 44 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	But they don't I have 4 or 5 friends dotted around the UK with HIDs fitted to various older cars, Pugs, Rovers etc. In some cases they've had them fitted for 4 years or more and none of them have ever failed the MOT on them.

9th February 2007, 00:20	#52 (permalink)
czechplastik King of the rodeo Civinfo guru Join Date: 24th October 2006 Location: Belfast Posts: 4,672 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	My concern is that they blind other motorists and could potentially cause an accident. If thats not off-putting enough I don't know what is!

9th February 2007, 00:39	#53 (permalink)
TTDegs Super Moderator Civinfo master Join Date: 4th August 2006 Location: Cardiff Posts: 5,638 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	I'm guessing that the point is that they should fail the MOT, as being not legal. (that's should as in fact, not opinion ) But, at the end of the day, how many times have we seen Auto Express et al run 'shock' exposures of cars that should be scrapped getting an MOT pass. For me, as I mentioned above, I'd be less concerned about failing an MOT, and rather more concerned with being involved in a crash at night. Note thats 'involved in' not 'causing'... Say you are happily driving down the road, perfectly legally (except HIDs ), at night. Car in opposite direction, driver is arguing with his girlfriend, looses concentration, and drives into you. Air bags pop all over the place in the Civic, both cars a write off, you are ok, but other driver is in a knackered old Ford and ends up paralysed from the waist down. Police arrive on scene. Sharp eyed copper notices your HIDs. Which go into the police report. Which is given to each insurance company. Which the other driver gets hold of. Or his girlfriend overhears the copper / notices your HIDs / whatever. His story of events now reads: I was driving along, when I was suddenly blinded by the car coming in the opposite direction. I attempted to stop, but as I could not see anything, I must have swerved into his path. Do you really believe that at this stage your insurance co is going to fight tooth and nail for you in the hope that they win the case? When the chances are that you will loose, and they will have a huge payout? Or are they going to drop you like a lead ballon and walk away with zero costs - and you with no insurance? Now. At this point, your £200 HID conversion has cost you: £200 for the kit £16,000 for a written off Civic £20,000 (?) per year for life for the other driver £gawd knows how much fine for driving with no insurance £gawd knows how much fine for driving without due care - or worse, dangerous driving. Would I fit them?

9th February 2007, 00:40	#54 (permalink)
TTDegs Super Moderator Civinfo master Join Date: 4th August 2006 Location: Cardiff Posts: 5,638 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	Can you tell how many times I re-wrote that last post? CP's wasn't there when I started to reply!

9th February 2007, 00:51	#55 (permalink)
czechplastik King of the rodeo Civinfo guru Join Date: 24th October 2006 Location: Belfast Posts: 4,672 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	Thats a pretty good example of my thinking TT, just fleshed out a little and made more understandable! Thanks! Being able to dodge an MOT or skip a fine really isn't the issue, It doesn't matter how many people you know that have them fitted, lots of people deal drugs and its still illegal. There's nothing more annoying than being blinded by oncoming vehicles on back roads, you flash them to remind them to dip their beams only to realise later (and after redfocusing your eyes!) that they were dipped the whole time and just incorrectly and illegally fitted. Sorry to rant on everyone and not having a go at you weaver, but poorly adjusted lights and fog lights frustrate me like nothing else!

9th February 2007, 09:00	#56 (permalink)
Dream Weaver Valve Cap Join Date: 29th January 2007 Location: Lancs Posts: 44 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	That is the big worry, and i'm glad that the insurance think has been mentioned, as its the main thing stopping me fitting them now. The MOT rules should be changed if the kits are illegal. The main problem is the cheap kits that are out there. My kit was £300, although I got it FOC from a customer. The bulbs in mine are completely shielded with a metal shield, and have a solenoid that operates between hi and lo beam - the beam pattern is an exact copy of the std H4 beam pattern, with no dispersal or dazzling. They also operate at 20w LESS than halogen bulbs, so the part about running hot bulbs within std headlights is wrong, as they don't actually get as hot as a halogen. So the kit I have doesnt dazzle anyone, doesnt disperse the beam pattern, operates at less wattage than std halogens. The advantage is it gets rid of the dreadful "yellowness" of the std 205 lights, and provides a brighter, whiter light. Maybe the MOT laws should be changed to offer HID testing, of someone could offer an approved HID test for retro fit kits? I would happily pay £25-50 to have the kit tested when fitted and receive a certificate for insurance etc I smell a business opportunity there

9th February 2007, 11:19	#57 (permalink)
Foggy69 Vivid Blue Rocks!!! Rocketship door handle Join Date: 5th December 2006 Location: Westerham Posts: 1,080 Thanks: 2 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts iTrader: (0)	Wow TT, great post. It made me really think about the issue. As I have already said, I did have a HID kit fitted to my previous car, but it had the projector type (I think this is the proper name) headlamp which focus's the light very clearly. With the kit fitted, I don't remember being flashed once. DW, I think the problem with the older reflector style of headlamp is not that the light from the bulb is directly dazzling oncoming cars, but it is the intensity of the light as it is reflected on the back of the headlight unit. The HID fills the reflector with a very bright light in a way that halogen bulbs can't As for the general use of HID, even cars fitted with them from the factory, that comply with all the regulations and have self levelling and washers, STILL blind you. Should they be banned altogether

9th February 2007, 12:09	#58 (permalink)
Dream Weaver Valve Cap Join Date: 29th January 2007 Location: Lancs Posts: 44 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	I'll do some more digging before fitting mine. In general I like HID lights, and have never been dazzled by them. They do that colour change thing when coming towards you, but i've never had to squint at them, no more than std headlights.

9th February 2007, 16:19	#59 (permalink)
TTDegs Super Moderator Civinfo master Join Date: 4th August 2006 Location: Cardiff Posts: 5,638 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	Don't get me wrong - I love HID lights - they were a significant reason for me going for the EX And I'm sure that there are companies out there who's products are non-dazzling (until you get 3 ton of stuff in your boot, and the non-existent self leveling system means they are focusing upwards not downwards). But for me, until Dream Weaver gets his business off the ground ( ), the risk outweighs the benefit of a retro fit

12th February 2007, 00:14	#60 (permalink)
damianscott71 Diesel Demon Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 1st July 2006 Location: Kempston, Bedfordshire Posts: 470 Thanks: 2 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader: (0)	Interestingly (or not as the case may be), Autoexpress had a video report on their website regarding retro fitted HID/Xenon headlights. The upshot being the they could well become illegal and will most probably fail MOT tests in the UK. Apparently, the reflector behind the lamp is shaped differently for HID, than standard headlight bulbs. And by fitting an HID into a reflector designed for your common or garden headlight bulb, the headlight pattern suffers from "leakage" which can dazzle oncoming motorists, etc. I can't find the link to the footage now, if I find it, I'll add it to my post. Or, you can try to find it at www.autoexpress.co.uk