Misting condensation in the lights

sco77harris · 26th June 2006, 21:44

ive been getting some condensation in the rear lights.

surely this is a fualt?

regards scott harris

basegreen · 26th June 2006, 21:56

Very common, I also get this.

sco77harris · 26th June 2006, 22:08

thanks but is it a fault?

and should i complain, which i do love doing lol

pugsley633 · 26th June 2006, 22:21

Hi Scott

I have visited the supplier of the rear light lenses with my current job about 2 months ago. When speaking to the technical director he told me there was an early on problem with misting / condensation inside the indicator assembly. This apparently was over come with the addition of a De fogging spray that is applied to the inside surface of the lens before assembly (the quantity and coverage of the De-fogging spray is probable key to condensation or not). He also told me that after the lamp is activated during normal running the heat should be sufficient to burn the water off. The lense is attached to the back bit of the light assembly using ultrasonic’s (melts the two plastics together using vibrations I think). If the two mating surfaces are not clean, or are chipped then the material will not join together (leading to water ingress). I’ve check around my lights and the joins looks quite ruff however this is currently not happing on my car but if it did I would be taking it straight back to the dealers

sco77harris · 26th June 2006, 22:29

well i have to give it to them to do the foglights and change a dash piece, so ill get them to do that too.

i must stress hondas service has been bog standard and they are over hyped in the surveys i tihnk.

basegreen · 26th June 2006, 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by sco77harris

well i have to give it to them to do the foglights and change a dash piece, so ill get them to do that too.

i must stress hondas service has been bog standard and they are over hyped in the surveys i tihnk.

I think it depends on your dealer really. Is there another nearby?

elfa7 · 27th June 2006, 09:24

Its the same with all Franchises. Some are brill, others ........

civicg · 27th June 2006, 09:42

Light condensation is a common problem on all cars to be honest, you will notice it a lot more in winter.

However, always worth complaining and they might just change the light cluster.

elfa7 · 27th June 2006, 10:15

If its a common problem, I don't think they'll change the light cluster !!

I have'nt noticed a problem , but my car is in a garage overnight. Does this help ?.

richierich · 27th June 2006, 12:06

I had small amounts of condensation in mine on the day I collected it, I was advised it was natural to expect some condensation initially as the environment the lights were made in and the dealers forecourt were of course different, it went after a few days, not seen it since.

civicg · 27th June 2006, 12:54

Like I say, you will notice it more in Winter.

If most of the cluster is getting condensation then I would say there is reason enough to complain, however if its just a little area or a number of very small areas then probably not worth arguing over and you wont succeed.

Pottsy · 27th June 2006, 13:39

If one light or one area is badly condensated, then the chances are that the light may be leaking and water is collecting in there. It's normally very obvious as there will be condensation nearly all the time.

Normal air contains water, though (especially so when it's raining), so all lights will on some occasion get condensation on the lens (at dusk commonly when the lens cools faster than the air in the light). Never heard of putting an anti-fog on the inside of lenses. I've got it on the inside of my helmet visor (and it kind of partially works) but that to me sounds a bit odd. If the plastic welding process was at fault, then surely they would bin the faulty bits and start again, rather than bodge it - you would have thought...

basegreen · 27th June 2006, 14:49

Yeah, like the faulty shocks they still used on the production line even though they knew they were noisy.

Copycat · 27th June 2006, 15:00

Seems like they can't allow any set backs in their production lines. Demand is so high that they keep making cars, even when they know that all the parts aren't up to required standards. Let's hope we don't see another case of faulty parts being used.
No recall yet, at least

Pottsy · 27th June 2006, 15:41

You'd hope that as soon as they knew they'd stop using faulty stuff - it would only be more expensive in the long run. But the shocks did seem to take a while...

As for the rear lights (in particular the indicators), you'll know if it's faulty because you'll see a little pool of water at the bottom of the lens (dead easy to see). If they all get a little bit of condensation occasionally, then that's quite normal.

The rear lights in the Civic are totally clear (normal cars are frosted) so you'll see this when normally it's a bit hidden.

One thing that is a bit confusing - the plastic weld is quite rough, and can look like a watery join. But it's not, it's just a rough join. A fault would be the entire lens of one light only covered in condensation.

Charlie · 27th June 2006, 19:39

Some of you may find this interesting, or it may send you to sleep (sorry), but I thought a quick physics lesson may help this particular discussion.

The amount of water vapour that can be held in the air is dependant on the temperature of the air. For example, air at 30ºC can hold 30 grams of water per cubic meter of air, where as air at 0ºC can only hold 5 grams per cubic meter of air. When the air is holding as much water vapour as is theoretically possible for that temperature, the relative humidity is 100%. So air at 30ºC and 50% relative humidity has 15 grams of water vapour in it. Why is this important I hear you ask? If you have a sealed container with air in it at 30ºC and you cool it to 0ºC, the excess water (25 grams for each cubic meter of air) will have to go somewhere - it collects on the sides of the container as condensation or dew.

This is why bathroom mirrors become steam up when you have a shower. The air in the room is warmed by the hot water from the shower and can hold lots of water, but the mirror is cold. The air near the mirror is cooled by the cold mirror and the water collects on the nearest available object - the mirror.

Also, when water vapour in the atmosphere reaches 100% humidity and is then cooled, the excess water falls out of the air and becomes rain.

This is also the same theory that explains why it is a good idea to use the air conditioning on winter mornings to clear a misted front screen. The air in the car's heater unit is cooled to reduce the amount of water it can hold (this can sometimes be seen to drip from under the car on a hot day). It is then heated (in the absence of water so it can't become more humid) before being blown onto the screen. The result is warm dry air which is great for absorbing moisture – clearing your windscreen.

The condensation forms in the lights for exactly the same reason. The air inside the light is always being heated (by the sun or the bulbs) and cooled by the air around it. As a result, sometimes condensation will be visible on the inside of the lens. This has always been the case, but recently manufacturers have moved towards clear lenses that don't hide the condensation as well as frosted or coloured lenses. There is nothing that can be done to stop it, the air inside the light has to be allowed to escape (otherwise the light could explode) when it heated up and by the same token air is sucked into the light when you turn off your lights or overnight as it cools down.

You can make up your own mind if this is a problem or not. In my opinion, I understand why it happens and that is enough. Sure enough, some times of year are worse due to the weather, but it's not going to stop the lights working and it's a small price to pay for one of the best looking set of lights on any car on the road.

Sorry if that was a little heavy going. Time to wake up now. The next lesson is French with Miss Evans.

elfa7 · 27th June 2006, 19:47

Roll on Miss Evans, if you'll excuse the pun !!.

sco77harris · 27th June 2006, 21:49

im using crown honda in bushey.

they said they will look atthe lights when i have my extras added.

Charlie · 29th June 2006, 21:00

va va vooom

MC Hammer · 29th June 2006, 22:53

I had a few 'Foggy' lamps last winter and despite having new parts fitted, it didn't improve much.
They weren't at goldfish level, just looked bad. They cleared up with the finer weather of course so unless they're really bad best leave alone until they have a 'fix' I'd register the complaint with the dealer anyway so they can't blame you for it later

26th June 2006, 21:44	#1 (permalink)
sco77harris Supporter Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 5th June 2006 Location: stanmore london Posts: 978 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	condensation in the lights ive been getting some condensation in the rear lights. surely this is a fualt? regards scott harris

26th June 2006, 22:21	#4 (permalink)
pugsley633 Valve Cap Join Date: 6th June 2006 Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Condensation in the lights Hi Scott I have visited the supplier of the rear light lenses with my current job about 2 months ago. When speaking to the technical director he told me there was an early on problem with misting / condensation inside the indicator assembly. This apparently was over come with the addition of a De fogging spray that is applied to the inside surface of the lens before assembly (the quantity and coverage of the De-fogging spray is probable key to condensation or not). He also told me that after the lamp is activated during normal running the heat should be sufficient to burn the water off. The lense is attached to the back bit of the light assembly using ultrasonic’s (melts the two plastics together using vibrations I think). If the two mating surfaces are not clean, or are chipped then the material will not join together (leading to water ingress). I’ve check around my lights and the joins looks quite ruff however this is currently not happing on my car but if it did I would be taking it straight back to the dealers

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This thread is about: condensation in the lights, it's in Lights at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; ive been getting some condensation in the rear lights. surely this is a fualt? regards scott harris...

26th June 2006, 21:56	#2 (permalink)
basegreen Super Moderator Civinfo guru Join Date: 15th April 2006 Location: noitacoL Posts: 2,896 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader: (0)	Very common, I also get this.

26th June 2006, 22:08	#3 (permalink)
sco77harris Supporter Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 5th June 2006 Location: stanmore london Posts: 978 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	thanks but is it a fault? and should i complain, which i do love doing lol

26th June 2006, 22:29	#5 (permalink)
sco77harris Supporter Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 5th June 2006 Location: stanmore london Posts: 978 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	well i have to give it to them to do the foglights and change a dash piece, so ill get them to do that too. i must stress hondas service has been bog standard and they are over hyped in the surveys i tihnk.

27th June 2006, 09:24	#7 (permalink)
elfa7 Supporter Rocketship door handle Join Date: 8th May 2006 Location: Cheshire Posts: 1,703 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Its the same with all Franchises. Some are brill, others ........

27th June 2006, 09:42	#8 (permalink)
civicg Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 3rd May 2006 Location: Leeds Posts: 130 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Light condensation is a common problem on all cars to be honest, you will notice it a lot more in winter. However, always worth complaining and they might just change the light cluster.

27th June 2006, 10:15	#9 (permalink)
elfa7 Supporter Rocketship door handle Join Date: 8th May 2006 Location: Cheshire Posts: 1,703 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	If its a common problem, I don't think they'll change the light cluster !! I have'nt noticed a problem , but my car is in a garage overnight. Does this help ?.

27th June 2006, 12:06	#10 (permalink)
richierich Smell My Cheese! Rocketship door handle Join Date: 17th May 2006 Location: Bicester, Oxfordshire Posts: 1,847 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	I had small amounts of condensation in mine on the day I collected it, I was advised it was natural to expect some condensation initially as the environment the lights were made in and the dealers forecourt were of course different, it went after a few days, not seen it since.

27th June 2006, 12:54	#11 (permalink)
civicg Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 3rd May 2006 Location: Leeds Posts: 130 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Like I say, you will notice it more in Winter. If most of the cluster is getting condensation then I would say there is reason enough to complain, however if its just a little area or a number of very small areas then probably not worth arguing over and you wont succeed.

27th June 2006, 13:39	#12 (permalink)
Pottsy Administrator Civinfo master Join Date: 10th April 2006 Location: Leics Posts: 5,466 Thanks: 22 Thanked 163 Times in 97 Posts iTrader: (0)	If one light or one area is badly condensated, then the chances are that the light may be leaking and water is collecting in there. It's normally very obvious as there will be condensation nearly all the time. Normal air contains water, though (especially so when it's raining), so all lights will on some occasion get condensation on the lens (at dusk commonly when the lens cools faster than the air in the light). Never heard of putting an anti-fog on the inside of lenses. I've got it on the inside of my helmet visor (and it kind of partially works) but that to me sounds a bit odd. If the plastic welding process was at fault, then surely they would bin the faulty bits and start again, rather than bodge it - you would have thought...

27th June 2006, 14:49	#13 (permalink)
basegreen Super Moderator Civinfo guru Join Date: 15th April 2006 Location: noitacoL Posts: 2,896 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader: (0)	Yeah, like the faulty shocks they still used on the production line even though they knew they were noisy.

27th June 2006, 15:00	#14 (permalink)
Copycat Galaxy class starship Rocketship door handle Join Date: 5th May 2006 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 1,050 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Seems like they can't allow any set backs in their production lines. Demand is so high that they keep making cars, even when they know that all the parts aren't up to required standards. Let's hope we don't see another case of faulty parts being used. No recall yet, at least

27th June 2006, 15:41	#15 (permalink)
Pottsy Administrator Civinfo master Join Date: 10th April 2006 Location: Leics Posts: 5,466 Thanks: 22 Thanked 163 Times in 97 Posts iTrader: (0)	You'd hope that as soon as they knew they'd stop using faulty stuff - it would only be more expensive in the long run. But the shocks did seem to take a while... As for the rear lights (in particular the indicators), you'll know if it's faulty because you'll see a little pool of water at the bottom of the lens (dead easy to see). If they all get a little bit of condensation occasionally, then that's quite normal. The rear lights in the Civic are totally clear (normal cars are frosted) so you'll see this when normally it's a bit hidden. One thing that is a bit confusing - the plastic weld is quite rough, and can look like a watery join. But it's not, it's just a rough join. A fault would be the entire lens of one light only covered in condensation.

27th June 2006, 19:39	#16 (permalink)
Charlie Valve Cap Join Date: 9th May 2006 Location: Behind the wheel Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Some of you may find this interesting, or it may send you to sleep (sorry), but I thought a quick physics lesson may help this particular discussion. The amount of water vapour that can be held in the air is dependant on the temperature of the air. For example, air at 30ºC can hold 30 grams of water per cubic meter of air, where as air at 0ºC can only hold 5 grams per cubic meter of air. When the air is holding as much water vapour as is theoretically possible for that temperature, the relative humidity is 100%. So air at 30ºC and 50% relative humidity has 15 grams of water vapour in it. Why is this important I hear you ask? If you have a sealed container with air in it at 30ºC and you cool it to 0ºC, the excess water (25 grams for each cubic meter of air) will have to go somewhere - it collects on the sides of the container as condensation or dew. This is why bathroom mirrors become steam up when you have a shower. The air in the room is warmed by the hot water from the shower and can hold lots of water, but the mirror is cold. The air near the mirror is cooled by the cold mirror and the water collects on the nearest available object - the mirror. Also, when water vapour in the atmosphere reaches 100% humidity and is then cooled, the excess water falls out of the air and becomes rain. This is also the same theory that explains why it is a good idea to use the air conditioning on winter mornings to clear a misted front screen. The air in the car's heater unit is cooled to reduce the amount of water it can hold (this can sometimes be seen to drip from under the car on a hot day). It is then heated (in the absence of water so it can't become more humid) before being blown onto the screen. The result is warm dry air which is great for absorbing moisture – clearing your windscreen. The condensation forms in the lights for exactly the same reason. The air inside the light is always being heated (by the sun or the bulbs) and cooled by the air around it. As a result, sometimes condensation will be visible on the inside of the lens. This has always been the case, but recently manufacturers have moved towards clear lenses that don't hide the condensation as well as frosted or coloured lenses. There is nothing that can be done to stop it, the air inside the light has to be allowed to escape (otherwise the light could explode) when it heated up and by the same token air is sucked into the light when you turn off your lights or overnight as it cools down. You can make up your own mind if this is a problem or not. In my opinion, I understand why it happens and that is enough. Sure enough, some times of year are worse due to the weather, but it's not going to stop the lights working and it's a small price to pay for one of the best looking set of lights on any car on the road. Sorry if that was a little heavy going. Time to wake up now. The next lesson is French with Miss Evans.

27th June 2006, 19:47	#17 (permalink)
elfa7 Supporter Rocketship door handle Join Date: 8th May 2006 Location: Cheshire Posts: 1,703 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Roll on Miss Evans, if you'll excuse the pun !!.

27th June 2006, 21:49	#18 (permalink)
sco77harris Supporter Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 5th June 2006 Location: stanmore london Posts: 978 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	im using crown honda in bushey. they said they will look atthe lights when i have my extras added.

29th June 2006, 21:00	#19 (permalink)
Charlie Valve Cap Join Date: 9th May 2006 Location: Behind the wheel Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	va va vooom

29th June 2006, 22:53	#20 (permalink)
MC Hammer Kids use a lot of space Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 16th June 2006 Location: UK Posts: 618 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	I had a few 'Foggy' lamps last winter and despite having new parts fitted, it didn't improve much. They weren't at goldfish level, just looked bad. They cleared up with the finer weather of course so unless they're really bad best leave alone until they have a 'fix' I'd register the complaint with the dealer anyway so they can't blame you for it later