Why don't you support the site???? (merged)

[NoNumpty]

Robbo51 :

I think bodgerx has made this clear why he doesn't want or need to become a supporter to support this site.

He obviously is very focused on the revenues side, stating a number of times that this site gets enough money from advertising revenues that by him paying to become a supporter doesn't add to that.

What he doesn't know, and never will whilst he is not a supporter, is the benefits of being a supporter.

Can we just drop it now - and accept if he doesn't want to become a supporter he doesn't have to be - I, for one, will still be grateful for any advise he can offer

[bodgerx]

For the reasons previously stated

I understand your reasons - my main point of complaint was being guilt tripped into it.

If that doesn't happen, I have no beef.

[Syx]

<insert guilt tripping here>

*Heads off to Supporter's forum to say nasty things about bodgerx*

[Pottsy]

The site costs quite a lot to host. My goal has always been to cover the site costs, I love Civinfo but I'd rather not pay for that love.

Revenue come from lots of different places, all in high quantity and small amounts. The best revenue comes from bounce ads - where someone is searching for something in Google, lands on a page here, realises it's not quite what they were looking for, but sees and clicks on an ad that is what they are looking for. This is a great way to earn for me, because I plaster the site with ads only visible to those non-members. It also encourages people to register.

Some companies pay a small annual amount to have a forum subsection here. This is good, I like them here, you like them here and they like to have a presence where there are lots of customers.

Some people want to support a site by making a small contribution. I have done this once before with a website - and I have also done this with donation-ware software. I really like the idea (with software) where the donation itself and the amount is completely optional. That way I can decide exactly how much, if at all, the software was worth to me. In the last couple of years with the arrival of mobile phone apps, software value has dropped enormously (you see people complaining that a complex app is "far too expensive at £5"), but if enough people do it then the developer will keep going and make it better. On the other hand, there are many websites that I go to, some quite regularly, where I don't feel the urge to donate. At all. So, buying a sticker, or donating, is totally optional. That is why there is no recurring subscription, and that is why the site is fully usable for all non-supporters. Furthermore, I think it's wrong to try and encourage someone to donate if they don't want to. Just like those irritating morally superior tits on the high street who try to make you donate to their charity. If I want to donate, I'll go home, think about it and then do it myself.

When I add all those revenue streams up (and there are a couple of affiliate schemes which earn pennies too), despite the fact that individually they all look quite small, the total is exceeding the costs. I keep the small surplus to one side, so that in the event of a hosting price hike or some other unexpected nasty, I can go to that surplus and not my own pocket. If the revenue stream ever starts to get less than the costs, then I will think again - but right now all is fine, and that's why the sticker/supporter charges have remained the same for 6 years, despite all the associated costs going up.

The site is a service, for all. Please can anyone, however well intentioned, who thinks that it's a good idea to try to persuade others to pay kindly refrain from doing so. If someone wants to contribute, then they will. If they don't, then that's absolutely fine and perfectly acceptable too.

[Syx]

Putting aside the fact that I'm suddenly compelled to give you all my money for a moment, I do have a question or two;

Are the adverts that are shown to registered but non-supporter members on a per-impression basis (and if not then what), and how does this compare to the revenue generated by people signing up to become supporters?

Just interested to know as the previous discussion does mention both methods.

Of course you can tell me to naff off if I'm poking my nose where it doesn't belong.

[Pottsy]

Google ads are per-click. So I can show as many as I like and if there are no clicks then the advertiser pays nothing, Google takes no commission and I earn nothing.

The amount that is paid/earned varies too - according to many factors, but mostly a "bid" that the advertiser makes, the quality of the website and the key words detected.

The profit from the stickers (about £2.50 each) is about half the profit from the ads. Nearly all the ad profit comes from unregistered users, which is perfect.

The target is to come up with a system that covers the costs and keeps the site good and the users happy.

[Yassian]

IMO very good system!

[Syx]

That helps me clarify things in my head - I wasn't aware they were Google ads!

The additional info is much appreciated as means I understand what's going on, even though I don't need to... which is why I'm grateful for your explanation.

[Pottsy]

Google ads:

81% comes from Guest-only pages.
15% comes from the footer, which could be Guests or registered members.
4% comes from the top-right ad, which could be Guests or registered members.

[FWH]

Pottsy, is there a difference in number and type of ads shown to Supporters and Non-Supporters?

[Syx]

I think Supporters only receive the "sponsor" ads for each sub forum.

Interesting that the supporter donations are only half of the total ad revenue, of which 81%+ are guests! Would not have expected guests to be generating so much money

Edit:
With a quick bit of maths I get
Supporters 33%
Guests 54%
Guests + Registered users 13%.

Not the breakdown I would have guessed TBH.

[Grayfox]

I do not find the premium benefits useful but that is cause i have not use for them, but i got it anyway because this forum and its users have helped me out a fair bit, worth the payment in my mind.

[Wiganjon]

The price of the sticker is a bargain for all the help and info on this site...and I like spotting other members even though my wife thinks I'm sad when I point out a civinfo sticker


Sent from my iPhone6 using Tapatalk

[The Vision]

Originally Posted by bodgerx

Let me guess...you haven't read the thread?

Post 183 and 199. Have a look, come back, and try again...

OK i will try again...

Yes i have read the whole thread including when i first posted in it (109)

since then i've read all the posts as they appear in my "user cp"

if you had bothered to look, then you might have found a post were i quoted you! your post number was 178 iirc...and therefore proves i have read it

so lets cut to the chase eh?

i have paid £6 to become a supporter and would happily pay that every year!
you claim to support this site by paying £0

your turn to try again

[bodgerx]

I'm not claiming to support anything.

All I'm saying is the revenue generated by the adverts is significant proportion of the total (as has now been proved). It is more than the revenue generated from one off supporter fees.

My point is, if you paid this some time ago, and the adverts are toned down for you, it could be argued that current unregistered or non-supporting members are bringing in more cash than supporters.

It doesn't give anyone the right to have a warm fuzzy feeling about it.

Again - It is up to the site owner to decide how to monetise the site.

[Yassian]

Can this all be tuned down if bodgerx promises to click on a google add once everyday?

[Hullcivic1986]

Originally Posted by bodgerx

Again - It is up to the site owner to decide how to monetise the site.

Exactly so why not draw a line under the subject and move on rather than this becoming one of 'those' threads

[The Vision]

each to there own then

but some of us will continue to advertise the purchase of a sticker in order to support and promote this site wth the extra benefits (even if i don't use the chat box) that this entails...

[Syx]

Originally Posted by bodgerx

I'm not claiming to support anything.

All I'm saying is the revenue generated by the adverts is significant proportion of the total (as has now been proved). It is more than the revenue generated from one off supporter fees.

I think I showed above that it was less than 13% of the total if you are a registered member.

It seems that if we really want to support the site we should browse as unregistered guests wherever possible!

[The Vision]

Originally Posted by Syx

I think I showed above that it was less than 13% of the total if you are a registered member.

It seems that if we really want to support the site we should browse as unregistered guests wherever possible!

+1
would be strange tho.....maybe all supporters can log on as guests maybe twice a day!

might offer this advice in the other thread