A day on the dyno with our tp's FN2

tdi-north · 3rd May 2008, 14:12

A few months back we put our test FN2 on the dyno at an organised RR day. With only 4K on the clock it supried everyone by making 212bhp. This wasn't we believe a fluke reading as it made the same figures on 3 consecutive runs and on that day EP3's were making stock and expected figures with given mods.

6 months on and now with 10K on the clock its time for testing with a few parts that are available.

We started off by testing the car totally stock. This time we made 208bhp/148ft/lb
3 runs confirmed 1bhp either side of the above figure. This was our datum.
We then tested the Hondata Re-flash.

This has been extensively covered in varous press releases and posts before and driving the car it transforms the midrange driving experience.
Results on the dyno with the stock car showed significant midrange gains in power and torque but only 1bhp difference at peak power.
Next the AEM intake was fitted followed by the new HKS twin exit exhaust.

Results as shown below.

The fitting of these 3 basic modifications together resulted in gains of 22bhp & 15ft/lb

All work was carried out with dyno runs within 4 hours of each other.
Significantly also the car was only running Shell 95 Unleaded fuel.

The dip in power/torque at 5K is due to the car running rich at this point. The Hondata ECU is mapped to account for intake, manifold and exhaust. Fitting a race manifold will lean this out and deliver again significant gains right through the powerband.

NEEMSTAR · 3rd May 2008, 14:23

good results

ChillTypeR · 3rd May 2008, 18:32

So it looks like the FN2`s are running 210bhp @ fly. Why didnt honda use this figure, as a major criticism on the current FN2 is the bhp?

lloeki · 8th May 2008, 10:47

various comparative dynos to the FN2 here. What's interesting is the 140kw figure at the wheels. With the usual 15% expected transmission loss, that's 140/0.85=164kw which makes 220 HP at the engine. This is the first page I stumbled upon by googling on the spot to have reference material, but I've seen others giving the same figures in numerous places, ranging from 210 to 225 HP. This is explained in another thread: "It was underrated in the UK due to emissions reasons and registering a car vs carbon neutral debate…" and later on in the dyno thread: "After taking in all this information its very clear in my eyes, and also confirmed by senior people within Honda that the FN2 is underrated due to emissions on paper."

So that makes one more confirming dyno!

cell · 8th May 2008, 14:21

Please explain the term "running rich" for a car-newb like me

lloeki · 8th May 2008, 14:28

ratio air/fuel skewed towards fuel, thus a better intake manifold will help the engine breathe.

-=Stella Artois=- · 8th May 2008, 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by cell

Please explain the term "running rich" for a car-newb like me

Too much fuel and not enough air to maintain optimum fuel/air mixture for combustion.

Lean = opposite.

Rich = Car soots up, excessive fuel consumption, poor power.
Lean = Pinking/detonation - increased temperature rise.

cell · 9th May 2008, 08:06

Thanks for the explanation stella!

So really to benefit from hondata to the fullest you need to get a race-manifold?
installed?
I am planning to run exhaust, intake and hondata soon, does the car take damage from running rich or is it only negative performace in general.

What do these parts usually cost? race-manifold that is.

Thanks for your answers!

-=Stella Artois=- · 9th May 2008, 13:17

There is a manifold on the market at the moment for £822. However I have had no reports of its performance.

Generally, running rich will just coke the engine internals, generating carbon deposits, resulting in deterioration in performance and generate rough running over prolonged periods.

Lean can be far more detrimental, leading to pistons being holed and valves being eaten away by heat and detonation (basically the fuel is ignited whilst the piston is still travelling upwards - The combustion process tries to force the piston back down the same way, rather than as the piston has passed top dead centre, and is on its natural down sweep).

miniturbo · 19th June 2008, 19:44

Any more details on the manifold? that is stupidly over priced!
What prices where the ep3 ones?

Stephen B · 20th June 2008, 08:47

how about a package price for the 3 mods together and estimate on fitting time ?

a trip south may be on the cards

illegalhunter · 21st June 2008, 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen B

how about a package price for the 3 mods together and estimate on fitting time ?

a trip south may be on the cards

yes me to

Stephen B · 28th June 2008, 16:14

Hmm, must be too busy making money to respond !

NEEMSTAR · 28th June 2008, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen B

Hmm, must be too busy making money to respond !

TDI North's last activity on the forum was on the 4th of June mate
Give them a bell if you want a question answered?

3rd May 2008, 14:12	#1 (permalink)
tdi-north Commercial user Wheelnut Join Date: 3rd May 2008 Location: Warrington Posts: 70 Thanks: 1 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts iTrader: (0)	A day on the dyno with our tp's FN2 A few months back we put our test FN2 on the dyno at an organised RR day. With only 4K on the clock it supried everyone by making 212bhp. This wasn't we believe a fluke reading as it made the same figures on 3 consecutive runs and on that day EP3's were making stock and expected figures with given mods. 6 months on and now with 10K on the clock its time for testing with a few parts that are available. We started off by testing the car totally stock. This time we made 208bhp/148ft/lb 3 runs confirmed 1bhp either side of the above figure. This was our datum. We then tested the Hondata Re-flash. This has been extensively covered in varous press releases and posts before and driving the car it transforms the midrange driving experience. Results on the dyno with the stock car showed significant midrange gains in power and torque but only 1bhp difference at peak power. Next the AEM intake was fitted followed by the new HKS twin exit exhaust. Results as shown below. The fitting of these 3 basic modifications together resulted in gains of 22bhp & 15ft/lb All work was carried out with dyno runs within 4 hours of each other. Significantly also the car was only running Shell 95 Unleaded fuel. The dip in power/torque at 5K is due to the car running rich at this point. The Hondata ECU is mapped to account for intake, manifold and exhaust. Fitting a race manifold will lean this out and deliver again significant gains right through the powerband.

9th May 2008, 13:17	#9 (permalink)
-=Stella Artois=- Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 8th June 2007 Location: Peterborough Posts: 360 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader: (0)	There is a manifold on the market at the moment for £822. However I have had no reports of its performance. Generally, running rich will just coke the engine internals, generating carbon deposits, resulting in deterioration in performance and generate rough running over prolonged periods. Lean can be far more detrimental, leading to pistons being holed and valves being eaten away by heat and detonation (basically the fuel is ignited whilst the piston is still travelling upwards - The combustion process tries to force the piston back down the same way, rather than as the piston has passed top dead centre, and is on its natural down sweep). Last edited by -=Stella Artois=-; 9th May 2008 at 13:22.

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This thread is about: A day on the dyno with our tp's FN2, it's in TDI North at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; A few months back we put our test FN2 on the dyno at an organised RR day. With only 4K on the clock it supried ...

3rd May 2008, 14:23	#2 (permalink)
NEEMSTAR Nobody gets out alive Rocketship door handle Join Date: 7th October 2007 Location: In your mind Posts: 1,393 Thanks: 30 Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts iTrader: (0)	good results

3rd May 2008, 18:32	#3 (permalink)
ChillTypeR Supporter Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 17th March 2008 Location: Middlesbrough & Grantham Posts: 392 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 7 Posts iTrader: (0)	So it looks like the FN2`s are running 210bhp @ fly. Why didnt honda use this figure, as a major criticism on the current FN2 is the bhp?

8th May 2008, 10:47	#4 (permalink)
lloeki Wheelnut Join Date: 17th September 2007 Location: France Posts: 50 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	various comparative dynos to the FN2 here. What's interesting is the 140kw figure at the wheels. With the usual 15% expected transmission loss, that's 140/0.85=164kw which makes 220 HP at the engine. This is the first page I stumbled upon by googling on the spot to have reference material, but I've seen others giving the same figures in numerous places, ranging from 210 to 225 HP. This is explained in another thread: "It was underrated in the UK due to emissions reasons and registering a car vs carbon neutral debate…" and later on in the dyno thread: "After taking in all this information its very clear in my eyes, and also confirmed by senior people within Honda that the FN2 is underrated due to emissions on paper." So that makes one more confirming dyno!

8th May 2008, 14:21	#5 (permalink)
cell Valve Cap Join Date: 5th March 2008 Location: Sweden Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Please explain the term "running rich" for a car-newb like me

8th May 2008, 14:28	#6 (permalink)
lloeki Wheelnut Join Date: 17th September 2007 Location: France Posts: 50 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	ratio air/fuel skewed towards fuel, thus a better intake manifold will help the engine breathe.

9th May 2008, 08:06	#8 (permalink)
cell Valve Cap Join Date: 5th March 2008 Location: Sweden Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Thanks for the explanation stella! So really to benefit from hondata to the fullest you need to get a race-manifold? installed? I am planning to run exhaust, intake and hondata soon, does the car take damage from running rich or is it only negative performace in general. What do these parts usually cost? race-manifold that is. Thanks for your answers!

19th June 2008, 19:44	#10 (permalink)
miniturbo Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 13th August 2007 Location: Hassocks nr Brighton Posts: 108 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Any more details on the manifold? that is stupidly over priced! What prices where the ep3 ones?

20th June 2008, 08:47	#11 (permalink)
Stephen B Supporter Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 10th May 2007 Location: Caledonia Posts: 161 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	how about a package price for the 3 mods together and estimate on fitting time ? a trip south may be on the cards

28th June 2008, 16:14	#13 (permalink)
Stephen B Supporter Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 10th May 2007 Location: Caledonia Posts: 161 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Hmm, must be too busy making money to respond !