3 gear, 83 miles...type r

Juff · 30th May 2008, 09:21

Hello dearest civicowners

Today i succeded in changing to 3rd gear instead of 5th while driving about 133 km/h or 83 miles....

Only for a split second, but i still not like the idea about it...
As far as i remember the type r runs about 130 km/h or 81 miles i 3th...

Ive heard that the rev limited only works when accelerating "normaly"....
Its not like i hit 3rd while driving 111 miles ( then the engine can die when running 10.000 rpm´s ), but i would still like to heat your opinion about this.

Is it possible to damage the engine in my case ?

have a nice weekend

illegalhunter · 30th May 2008, 09:25

Well if the engine is fecked you wont have long to wait to see. Warrenty will cover it. I wouldnt be worried the Ivtec is the most reliable engine in the world.

angie4m · 30th May 2008, 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by illegalhunter

Well if the engine is fecked you wont have long to wait to see. Warrenty will cover it. I wouldnt be worried the Ivtec is the most reliable engine in the world.

If you over revv the engine then it records it, the RPM & The Speed! And if this cases an engine failure then Honda WONT cover it under warranty!

I wouldn't worry, I think nearly everyone with a Type R has hit the limiter. Its not something you should be doing all the time, but every now and again isn't going to do any harm and blow the engine, but doing it all the time could.

Juff · 30th May 2008, 10:04

Ive hit the limiter a few times, but if you change to a "to low gear" the rew limiter wont kick in. This way you can force it to over rew...........at least so ive heard

..........

angie4m · 30th May 2008, 12:15

When it the revv limiter is hit and it starts bouncing then your over revving, easily caused by down shifting to the wrong gear.

-=Stella Artois=- · 30th May 2008, 12:34

There is no Rev limiter for downshifting. The rev limiter is an electronic control method used when the car is being accelerated. If you physically overspeed the engine by selecting a wrong gear, you are mechanically rotating the engine via the drive chain. No car has a method to alleviate this as its physics. To give you some idea, at 70mph, selecting 2nd gear will cause the engine to rev at 22,000 rpm. Needless to say they wont survive. Honda have reported a 21,000 rpm survival, but this was a unique occurance.

If you hit the clutch as soon as you made the error - which I suspect you would have, natural instinct, you may have slightly oversped the engine circa 10 - 11k. Not wise, but certainly not in the instant damage area, you will have caught the worst of it.

Juff · 30th May 2008, 12:34

Anyone knows where the revs would start to damage the engine ? I suppose that honda has make sure that the rev limiter kicks rather "early"

9000-10000 maybe ? <<=------ answered by stella a meanwhile....

..thx

Well my little stunt this morning is nothing compared to what can happend

...... i guess i was not above 8000-8300 rpm´s... about 83 miles is the max speed in 3rd before rev limiter kicks in, and that was about my downshifting speed

...

-=Stella Artois=- · 30th May 2008, 12:53

This may alleviate some of your fears.

Stock internals, slight modifications. Rev limiter removed (electronic). Some of the K20 engines are reported to be high revving on the track circa 13.5 - 14k at valve bounce. (Valve bounce is nasty, don't go there), so I'd say you are well within the safety zone - unless its a diesel!

Juff · 30th May 2008, 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by -=Stella Artois=-

This may alleviate some of your fears.

Stock internals, slight modifications. Rev limiter removed (electronic). Some of the K20 engines are reported to be high revving on the track circa 13.5 - 14k at valve bounce. (Valve bounce is nasty, don't go there), so I'd say you are well within the safety zone - unless its a diesel!

He he... Well thank you Mr. Stella Artois

.....
Thats good news

Bungle · 30th May 2008, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by -=Stella Artois=-

This may alleviate some of your fears.

Stock internals, slight modifications. Rev limiter removed (electronic). Some of the K20 engines are reported to be high revving on the track circa 13.5 - 14k at valve bounce. (Valve bounce is nasty, don't go there), so I'd say you are well within the safety zone - unless its a diesel!

I take it valve bounce in something along the lines of the cam shaft rotating so fast the valves don't open/close normally? Not hear of it before, to be honest.

I will also add, my diesel learner car (1.3 Corsa) has had a few nasty downshifts. 25-30mph and into 1st instead of 3rd. Not pleasent. Happened more times than I car to think of. Of course I dual control the clutch to disengage it immediately, but it still happens!

-=Stella Artois=- · 30th May 2008, 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bungle

I take it valve bounce in something along the lines of the cam shaft rotating so fast the valves don't open/close normally? Not hear of it before, to be honest.

Valve bounce is where the valve cannot close quick enough before the camshaft lobe is acting upon it again. This is down to the strength of the valve springs. A weak spring will close the valve, but allow it to bounce within the seat. A stronger valve spring is required to snap it, and retain it closed.

What will eventually happen is that the valve will cease to follow the lobe duration on the cam and bounce on the seat, then strike the cam lobe, out of sync. This puts immense stress on the camshaft and can lead to failure of the camshaft and valve itself. the most common failure is the valve dislocates from the collets holding it in place and falls into the combustion chamber taking out the pistons and head.

Nexxo · 30th May 2008, 20:58

If it's a consolation, pull up from stand-still in anything but first gear in a Ferrari F40, and you bugger a £25.000,-- gearbox.

Oops.

fordy · 30th May 2008, 21:56

I would not worry if the engine is still sounding fine and revving freely!

Its not good to over rev but any damage, if a disaster, it would likely be immediate, any failure further on and you may have some guilt but thats life, enjoy without spending thousands on a rebuild that still may fail

Gearbox blown or broken con rod etc is the real title, no one here can tell you anymore than you already know,you done wrong and if damaged its irreversable (without costly rebuild), if not, hey keep on vtecing

30th May 2008, 09:21	#1 (permalink)
Juff Wheelnut Join Date: 23rd April 2008 Location: Malmö/Copenhagen Posts: 55 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	3 gear, 83 miles...type r Hello dearest civicowners Today i succeded in changing to 3rd gear instead of 5th while driving about 133 km/h or 83 miles.... Only for a split second, but i still not like the idea about it... As far as i remember the type r runs about 130 km/h or 81 miles i 3th... Ive heard that the rev limited only works when accelerating "normaly".... Its not like i hit 3rd while driving 111 miles ( then the engine can die when running 10.000 rpm´s ), but i would still like to heat your opinion about this. Is it possible to damage the engine in my case ? have a nice weekend

30th May 2008, 12:34	#7 (permalink)
Juff Wheelnut Join Date: 23rd April 2008 Location: Malmö/Copenhagen Posts: 55 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Anyone knows where the revs would start to damage the engine ? I suppose that honda has make sure that the rev limiter kicks rather "early" 9000-10000 maybe ? <<=------ answered by stella a meanwhile.... ..thx Well my little stunt this morning is nothing compared to what can happend ...... i guess i was not above 8000-8300 rpm´s... about 83 miles is the max speed in 3rd before rev limiter kicks in, and that was about my downshifting speed ... Last edited by Juff; 30th May 2008 at 12:43.

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This thread is about: 3 gear, 83 miles...type r, it's in Type-R at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; Hello dearest civicowners Today i succeded in changing to 3rd gear instead of 5th while driving about 133 km/h or 83 miles.... Only for a ...

30th May 2008, 09:25	#2 (permalink)
illegalhunter HACKIN & SLAYIN Civinfo guru Join Date: 10th May 2007 Location: In the woods armed to the teeth Posts: 2,893 Thanks: 6 Thanked 35 Times in 34 Posts iTrader: (0)	Well if the engine is fecked you wont have long to wait to see. Warrenty will cover it. I wouldnt be worried the Ivtec is the most reliable engine in the world.

30th May 2008, 10:04	#4 (permalink)
Juff Wheelnut Join Date: 23rd April 2008 Location: Malmö/Copenhagen Posts: 55 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Ive hit the limiter a few times, but if you change to a "to low gear" the rew limiter wont kick in. This way you can force it to over rew...........at least so ive heard ..........

30th May 2008, 12:15	#5 (permalink)
angie4m Moved on Civinfo guru Join Date: 28th September 2007 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 2,772 Thanks: 17 Thanked 32 Times in 32 Posts iTrader: (0)	When it the revv limiter is hit and it starts bouncing then your over revving, easily caused by down shifting to the wrong gear.

30th May 2008, 12:34	#6 (permalink)
-=Stella Artois=- Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 8th June 2007 Location: Peterborough Posts: 360 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader: (0)	There is no Rev limiter for downshifting. The rev limiter is an electronic control method used when the car is being accelerated. If you physically overspeed the engine by selecting a wrong gear, you are mechanically rotating the engine via the drive chain. No car has a method to alleviate this as its physics. To give you some idea, at 70mph, selecting 2nd gear will cause the engine to rev at 22,000 rpm. Needless to say they wont survive. Honda have reported a 21,000 rpm survival, but this was a unique occurance. If you hit the clutch as soon as you made the error - which I suspect you would have, natural instinct, you may have slightly oversped the engine circa 10 - 11k. Not wise, but certainly not in the instant damage area, you will have caught the worst of it.

30th May 2008, 12:53	#8 (permalink)
-=Stella Artois=- Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 8th June 2007 Location: Peterborough Posts: 360 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader: (0)	This may alleviate some of your fears. Stock internals, slight modifications. Rev limiter removed (electronic). Some of the K20 engines are reported to be high revving on the track circa 13.5 - 14k at valve bounce. (Valve bounce is nasty, don't go there), so I'd say you are well within the safety zone - unless its a diesel!

30th May 2008, 20:58	#12 (permalink)
Nexxo Wheelnut Join Date: 21st April 2008 Location: Birmingham, UK Posts: 73 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	If it's a consolation, pull up from stand-still in anything but first gear in a Ferrari F40, and you bugger a £25.000,-- gearbox. Oops.

30th May 2008, 21:56	#13 (permalink)
fordy Valve Cap Join Date: 20th April 2008 Location: UK Posts: 40 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	I would not worry if the engine is still sounding fine and revving freely! Its not good to over rev but any damage, if a disaster, it would likely be immediate, any failure further on and you may have some guilt but thats life, enjoy without spending thousands on a rebuild that still may fail Gearbox blown or broken con rod etc is the real title, no one here can tell you anymore than you already know,you done wrong and if damaged its irreversable (without costly rebuild), if not, hey keep on vtecing