type R panned by Clarkson - Page 6

koxy333 · 21st November 2007, 08:44

Just watched the said video on youtube (for those who wish to see it again...YouTube - Top Gear Season 10 Episode 6 Honda Civic Type-R)

I have to agree that is a very very unfair review of the new type r! I got a load of sniggering and jokes when I went to work and mines not even a type r its a ctdi 2.2 es!!

At the end of the day Jeremy Clarkson is all about entertainment, hes very good at it and has a funny way of putting things across (dog cocking its leg up..lol) but the bottom line is that he knows very little about cars other than 'oversteer' and 'understeeer' thats its comparison to everything!

I reackon you guys should challenge him to the track!!! He can have the old type r and you guys race in your new type r... see who actually comes last

minisweeper · 21st November 2007, 09:32

Never slags off fords? Did you see him when the new focus came out? They parked it in a street to see whether anyone cared and when noone did (hardly surprising, really) they had a great old time laughing about it.

What's wrong with calling Skodas VWs for poor people? Skodas have long had a pretty poor reputation. The fact that VAG can buy them out and bring up the build quality to a level where people are actively considering them as alternatives is a compliment to skoda owners I'd say.

CivPilot · 21st November 2007, 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by koxy333

Just watched the said video on youtube (for those who wish to see it again...YouTube - Top Gear Season 10 Episode 6 Honda Civic Type-R)

I have to agree that is a very very unfair review of the new type r! I got a load of sniggering and jokes when I went to work and mines not even a type r its a ctdi 2.2 es!!

At the end of the day Jeremy Clarkson is all about entertainment, hes very good at it and has a funny way of putting things across (dog cocking its leg up..lol) but the bottom line is that he knows very little about cars other than 'oversteer' and 'understeeer' thats its comparison to everything!

I reackon you guys should challenge him to the track!!! He can have the old type r and you guys race in your new type r... see who actually comes last

Completely disagree with the sentence in bold. Sorry.

The guy's career is around cars and whilst he often gets the details slightly foggy for 'comedy value' he knows a hell of a lot more than most, considerably more than most, if not all, on this board. It's been said many, many times in this thread that his review was based on comparing the new car with the old "Type-R". And seeing as most of those who have made the comparrison agree that the new car is soft and doesn't handle as well as the older hardcore cars... does that make Clarkson the only wrong one? Of maybe those with actual experience to compare the two have a valid point?

Clarkson is also a very accomplised driver, despite his claims to the contrary. Has anyone here actually ever driven a big powerfull rear drive car sideways on a track? It is not easy and demands a huge amount of a)guts & b) talent. Yes, it's a totally useless thing in the real world on real roads and is on the show purely for how good it looks on camera, but it doesn't make it any less impressive from a drivers point of view. JC actually received some pretty extensive driver training in all aspects long before the current format of Top gear started and it really shows.

His 10min lap of the 'Ring in the deisel Jag should be proof enough of his ability to control a car. For someone to lap the ring at that pace on their first visit (all be it second day) shows a pretty good ability to control a car. It's a very challenging and extremely unforgiving place indeed.

I would love to see some from here (preferably someone who knows Clarkson is wrong

) get their behind handed to them on track. Prehaps then people would accept that some opinions have a right to be different.

And just in case people read this without going back over the thread (as currently appears to be the case) I will state my opinion again...

I love the new UK car, it's a good drive and looks so much better than it's market rivals.
However, it's not a true "Type-R" no matter what Honda UK's marketing department want us to think and it will always fall down when compared to a TRUE "Type-R".
Honda Japan currently make the real "Type-R" (ie based on a Civic chassis, not that of a Jazz, full modern suspension, lightwieght, VERY fast, drivers car) and I cannot wait until Honda UK make one themselves.

Flame away.. after all, my personal free choice opinion clearly varies from what everyone here tells me it should be

HTH

robbo51 · 21st November 2007, 13:55

Spot on CivPilot!!

Seirrah · 21st November 2007, 14:09

Civpilot - Didn't Stig have good things to say about the TypeR? He's a considerably better race-track driver than Clarkson, otherwise Clarkson would be doing the top gear power-laps.

CivPilot · 21st November 2007, 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seirrah

Civpilot - Didn't Stig have good things to say about the TypeR? He's a considerably better race-track driver than Clarkson, otherwise Clarkson would be doing the top gear power-laps.

As far as I have been informed "Stig" who wrote the motoring article in the magazine was not the main* "Stig" from the TV show.

Besides, again, totally missing the point. The opinion of "The Stig" is just that.. his opinion. Clarksons opinion is just that "his opinion". Who are you to say which one is wrong?

I, and many others, actually agree with Clarkson in his critic of the car. It's good, but it's nowhere near "great", and certainly NOT a true "Type-R". And that is the direction his critic is coming from.

There is also a very good quote about the Top Gear magazine/TV show connection....

Quote:

"The difference between Top Gear Magazine and the Top Gear TV show is that only one of them has Clarkson and the other is famous for kissing manufacturer butt"

That originally came from someone very in the know within the "road testing" industry (very well known name too), so read into that what you will. Most other highly rated independent "drivers" magazines, including evo, totally agree with Clarkson's TV report findings. 5th Gear also agreed if I recall correctly and even showed just how fast and hard a real Type-R should be (JDM version). Funny that.

At the end of the day there are two camps, the "Glad someones finally telling the truth, hope Honda UK listen" camp & the "La la la not listening, Clarksons wrong and nasty. evil little hobbitses. My precious. Mine" camp

I personally prefer the truth

*I say "main Stig" for a reason. On the TV show there is one main "Stig" (B.C.) whose legal job description is as "High performance driving consultant". If he is unavailable due to racing commitments then there are a couple of other very skillfull pilots they can call on. The renault F1 car for example was actually dirven by their own test driver, not B.C. in the magazine... well, you don't have to see him performing, so in theory, anyone can do that job

ps. thanks Robbo

Seirrah · 21st November 2007, 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by CivPilot

Besides, again, totally missing the point. The opinion of "The Stig" is just that.. his opinion. Clarksons opinion is just that "his opinion". Who are you to say which one is wrong?

That was my point really, it's all opinions.

However, he lost a little credibility with me when he referred to the car as being slow (a few comments during the power-lap), as he never really referred to cars the CTR was faster than as slow.

Conrad'67 · 21st November 2007, 19:22

My only problem with Clarkson is that he is a jackass. He does nothing but recite jokes that are pre-scripted by the top gear writing team. He only likes ultra-expensive cars, i.e. the ones he can afford thanks to the millions he gets from tv licence payers who watch this garbage.

Woette · 21st November 2007, 21:36

Top gear is only entertainment, i dont care what they think of a car because they just give us their own opinion. JC even bashed that new murcielago...the only thing they want is good television. I have been watching their show for 4 seasons now and i just cant stop getting the feeling they just dont know what to say anymore.
Just JC saying the new type-R understeers a lot and then showing us how he takes a corner way too fast is a good example of that. I can understeer an f1 car like that...
And since the car IS faster on their track proves to me it IS a better car.
Dont think i hate the show but its just entertainment to me, i only wanna see the cool cars go fast or 'the boys' crashing something. Those guys are not going to convince me what car to buy

Dimplyred · 21st November 2007, 21:50

I was a bit, frustrated on Sunday night when I watched the show, but now I couldn't care less about JC's opinion. He is entitled to it like anyone else and if he doesn't like the car he doesn't like it, simple really. Personally I love it. I knew what he thought about the car before I bought one, so no suprises on Sunday really, now I've thought about it. Despite reading his review back in March (I think) I also read plenty more reviews that said it was a great car. No manufacturer will please everyone everytime. So if YOU like it, enjoy it.

craggyislander · 21st November 2007, 22:07

Well said Dimply - it's an individual's opinion after all. Thing is Jezza seems to slate a lot of cars apart from the Veyron or that A6 he took to Edinburgh and back on one tank of diesel.

I must admit I am biased because I have landed a Type-R and come to this from driving a 56 plate Yaris 1.0 (bought before my company decided to put me on the car scheme). So yes almost any car will seem better than the Yaris but at the end of the day I am crazy about my Honda - its mine for only two years before I have to hand it back but boy I am looking forward to keeping it till then!

Even though I have come from driving a hamster powered Toyota, I have been driving since 1990 and I have NEVER driven a car like this - it's incredible and basically just wants to fly.

This is why I love it despite what Jezza said - its mine till Nov 09 so will treat it like my baby till the sad day it has to go back (sniff)

fn2good · 21st November 2007, 23:26

did anyone note that in the middle of the test drive clarkson said " its not that the old car is faster just more fun to drive " on a track probably id agree but for everday running im sure the fn2 is a better compromise.

and anyway is 0.7 of a sec slower on the tg track a bad result ?
as the fn2 is heavier to start with as a standard car and even heavier as a gt model , would be interested to see how quick the standard car is against the ep3 which probably was a base car without air con.

anyway enjoy wot ever you drive!!

SHADEMASTER · 21st November 2007, 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by fn2good

did anyone note that in the middle of the test drive clarkson said " its not that the old car is faster just more fun to drive " on a track probably id agree but for everday running im sure the fn2 is a better compromise.

and anyway is 0.7 of a sec slower on the tg track a bad result ?
as the fn2 is heavier to start with as a standard car and even heavier as a gt model , would be interested to see how quick the standard car is against the ep3 which probably was a base car without air con.

anyway enjoy wot ever you drive!!

Where did you here the new R was 0.7 seconds slower than the old one

The new R is 3 seconds faster than the old one round the top gear track

check out my third post on page one of this subject
LOL

fn2good · 22nd November 2007, 00:15

1.36 on a very wet track and the later ep3 with a lighter flywheel did it in 1.32.8 on a dry track !!

SHADEMASTER · 22nd November 2007, 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by fn2good

1.36 on a very wet track and the later ep3 with a lighter flywheel did it in 1.32.8 on a dry track !!

The 1:32.8 is not on the top gear board?
BBC - Top Gear - Power Laps

They are two times on the board 1:33.5 (new R) and 1:36.5(old R)

I am not sure where you got the 1:32.8 time,
If that car has a lighter flywheel surly if the new R had the same modification it would be faster than the 1:33.5 time of the standard R

LOL

fn2good · 22nd November 2007, 00:33

yeah i no it isnt on the board because im sure it was tested and not on t.v
cant remember where i read it though lol!!
and yeah i totally agree with you thats wot i was trying to say if it was a standard fn2 ( non gt ) it would be easily as quick

THX1138 · 22nd November 2007, 01:00

Ok I'm convinced. I don't have a "true" Type-R. I should rename my car because half way around the globe there's a sedan that seems to be better. And Honda UK should've done a better job. So I will go outside and strip all the Type-R logo's from my car. Good thing I didn't get the extra logo's.

The next time I get in, I will not have as much fun as I used too, because now I don't have a Type-R anymore. It's now a Civic 2.0 Something. Great, means less speeding tickets and excellent MPG.

I will let everyone know if that is really the case. Because frankly, I suspect it won't make a difference whatsoever. If Honda would've called it the Civic Hello Kitty, I still would've gotten one. The name means nothing to me, and there is no well defined written list or book that dictates when a car is "allowed" to wear the Type-R badge. I bet even Honda doesn't know that. You could come close to such a list, but it will never be complete. Just like a car that is also never finished or complete.

Simply because a car bears a certain name, people start judging and creating mental images of what it should be like based on that name.
"It shows Ferarri on the back, so it will probably go fast and be very luxurious"
"Look, a Fiat Panda with a Sport logo. Must be a fast car."

Why don't we judge things for what they are ? Not for what we think they should be based on the name ? Or based on something there used to be with that same name.

If Clarkson would've approached it that way, some of his points would still be valid. Yes, it's a total mistery why Honda still can't figure out seat-memory, but they do know how the make variable valve timing.
Yes, the rear suspension is the car's weakest point.

But look at the package as a whole. Take the positives and the negatives and base your judgement on that. Leave the luggage marked "expectation" at home. Nobody's forcing you to expect anything.

If you still don't like the car after that, your opinion stands and is as valid as the next persons.

Jedi71 · 22nd November 2007, 08:15

At the end of the day i love my new r handles well goes well, did you all notice the Type R on top gear had barely 700 miles on the clock therefore not even run in properly and clarkson deliberately getting as muc understeer as possible for example out of corner where he skims the grass - conveniently panned out by camera at the time. still if it had cost in excess of 50k he probaly would love it lol you should se the 70 odd pages of rubbish on the type r owners club not a site i care to much for

LNT · 22nd November 2007, 19:08

I've only just seen this weeks TG because I was working so I Sky+d it and I haven't looked at Civinfo either so expected some comments on the programme here.

At the end of the day, millions of different cars are sold everyday, and not everyone buys a car which JC thinks is the DBs. If everyone did, there'd only be about 3 different cars on the road!

People buy their cars because they like them, they like the looks, or something else about it which suits them. For me it was about combining really low running costs with something that was really comfortable, nice to drive and had all the toys I needed. Looks weren't that important, but I still like the look of it, and you don't see many about, so I also like the exclusivity. You don't have to defend your car because you have one so best not to get too hung up about what the likes of JC or any other reviewer says. I love TG but you can't tell me that whatever he says, anyone with an old Type R will probably want a new one because it's newer and looks nicer so is therefore better! Perhaps this is more to do with Honda taking advantage of their customers loyalty and if there are any failings or shortcuts taken on the new car, then Honda should look at themselves and their conscience by taking advantage of that brand loyalty.

Griffard · 22nd November 2007, 20:37

At the end of the day he gave an opinion, but personally, and after test driving a GTi etc, I know I bought the best hot hatch out there on the market at the moment. Also, is it such a bad thing that a curly-topped, balding old fart like Clarkson didn't like the car?

21st November 2007, 23:26	#112 (permalink)
fn2good Valve Cap Join Date: 3rd April 2007 Location: northeast england Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	fn2 vs ep3 - again lol !! did anyone note that in the middle of the test drive clarkson said " its not that the old car is faster just more fun to drive " on a track probably id agree but for everday running im sure the fn2 is a better compromise. and anyway is 0.7 of a sec slower on the tg track a bad result ? as the fn2 is heavier to start with as a standard car and even heavier as a gt model , would be interested to see how quick the standard car is against the ep3 which probably was a base car without air con. anyway enjoy wot ever you drive!!

22nd November 2007, 00:15	#114 (permalink)
fn2good Valve Cap Join Date: 3rd April 2007 Location: northeast england Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	ep3 track times 1.36 on a very wet track and the later ep3 with a lighter flywheel did it in 1.32.8 on a dry track !!

22nd November 2007, 00:33	#116 (permalink)
fn2good Valve Cap Join Date: 3rd April 2007 Location: northeast england Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	:)) yeah i no it isnt on the board because im sure it was tested and not on t.v cant remember where i read it though lol!! and yeah i totally agree with you thats wot i was trying to say if it was a standard fn2 ( non gt ) it would be easily as quick

22nd November 2007, 08:15	#118 (permalink)
Jedi71 Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 23rd October 2006 Location: Surrey Posts: 113 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Type r At the end of the day i love my new r handles well goes well, did you all notice the Type R on top gear had barely 700 miles on the clock therefore not even run in properly and clarkson deliberately getting as muc understeer as possible for example out of corner where he skims the grass - conveniently panned out by camera at the time. still if it had cost in excess of 50k he probaly would love it lol you should se the 70 odd pages of rubbish on the type r owners club not a site i care to much for

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode


This thread is about: type R panned by Clarkson, it's in Type-R at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; Just watched the said video on youtube (for those who wish to see it again... YouTube - Top Gear Season 10 Episode 6 Honda Civic ...

21st November 2007, 08:44	#101 (permalink)
koxy333 Supporter Valve Cap Join Date: 14th October 2007 Location: Manchester Posts: 41 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Just watched the said video on youtube (for those who wish to see it again...YouTube - Top Gear Season 10 Episode 6 Honda Civic Type-R) I have to agree that is a very very unfair review of the new type r! I got a load of sniggering and jokes when I went to work and mines not even a type r its a ctdi 2.2 es!! At the end of the day Jeremy Clarkson is all about entertainment, hes very good at it and has a funny way of putting things across (dog cocking its leg up..lol) but the bottom line is that he knows very little about cars other than 'oversteer' and 'understeeer' thats its comparison to everything! I reackon you guys should challenge him to the track!!! He can have the old type r and you guys race in your new type r... see who actually comes last

21st November 2007, 09:32	#102 (permalink)
minisweeper Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 23rd June 2007 Posts: 209 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Never slags off fords? Did you see him when the new focus came out? They parked it in a street to see whether anyone cared and when noone did (hardly surprising, really) they had a great old time laughing about it. What's wrong with calling Skodas VWs for poor people? Skodas have long had a pretty poor reputation. The fact that VAG can buy them out and bring up the build quality to a level where people are actively considering them as alternatives is a compliment to skoda owners I'd say.

21st November 2007, 13:55	#104 (permalink)
robbo51 It's my fault! Civinfo guru Join Date: 1st July 2007 Location: Bingley, W.Yorks Posts: 3,892 Thanks: 66 Thanked 75 Times in 72 Posts iTrader: (0)	Spot on CivPilot!!

21st November 2007, 14:09	#105 (permalink)
Seirrah Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 12th August 2007 Location: Cardiff Posts: 126 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Civpilot - Didn't Stig have good things to say about the TypeR? He's a considerably better race-track driver than Clarkson, otherwise Clarkson would be doing the top gear power-laps.

21st November 2007, 19:22	#108 (permalink)
Conrad'67 Supporter Wheelnut Join Date: 18th July 2007 Location: Bonny Scotland Posts: 88 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	My only problem with Clarkson is that he is a jackass. He does nothing but recite jokes that are pre-scripted by the top gear writing team. He only likes ultra-expensive cars, i.e. the ones he can afford thanks to the millions he gets from tv licence payers who watch this garbage.

21st November 2007, 21:36	#109 (permalink)
Woette Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 7th October 2007 Location: Leuven, Belgium Posts: 399 Thanks: 8 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts iTrader: (0)	Top gear is only entertainment, i dont care what they think of a car because they just give us their own opinion. JC even bashed that new murcielago...the only thing they want is good television. I have been watching their show for 4 seasons now and i just cant stop getting the feeling they just dont know what to say anymore. Just JC saying the new type-R understeers a lot and then showing us how he takes a corner way too fast is a good example of that. I can understeer an f1 car like that... And since the car IS faster on their track proves to me it IS a better car. Dont think i hate the show but its just entertainment to me, i only wanna see the cool cars go fast or 'the boys' crashing something. Those guys are not going to convince me what car to buy

21st November 2007, 21:50	#110 (permalink)
Dimplyred Super Moderator Civinfo master Join Date: 24th August 2007 Location: Staffordshire Posts: 5,734 Thanks: 21 Thanked 217 Times in 210 Posts iTrader: (0)	I was a bit, frustrated on Sunday night when I watched the show, but now I couldn't care less about JC's opinion. He is entitled to it like anyone else and if he doesn't like the car he doesn't like it, simple really. Personally I love it. I knew what he thought about the car before I bought one, so no suprises on Sunday really, now I've thought about it. Despite reading his review back in March (I think) I also read plenty more reviews that said it was a great car. No manufacturer will please everyone everytime. So if YOU like it, enjoy it.

21st November 2007, 22:07	#111 (permalink)
craggyislander Valve Cap Join Date: 7th November 2006 Location: West Weybridge,Surrey Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Well said Dimply - it's an individual's opinion after all. Thing is Jezza seems to slate a lot of cars apart from the Veyron or that A6 he took to Edinburgh and back on one tank of diesel. I must admit I am biased because I have landed a Type-R and come to this from driving a 56 plate Yaris 1.0 (bought before my company decided to put me on the car scheme). So yes almost any car will seem better than the Yaris but at the end of the day I am crazy about my Honda - its mine for only two years before I have to hand it back but boy I am looking forward to keeping it till then! Even though I have come from driving a hamster powered Toyota, I have been driving since 1990 and I have NEVER driven a car like this - it's incredible and basically just wants to fly. This is why I love it despite what Jezza said - its mine till Nov 09 so will treat it like my baby till the sad day it has to go back (sniff)

22nd November 2007, 01:00	#117 (permalink)
THX1138 Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 2nd March 2007 Location: Den Haag, The Netherlands Posts: 386 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Ok I'm convinced. I don't have a "true" Type-R. I should rename my car because half way around the globe there's a sedan that seems to be better. And Honda UK should've done a better job. So I will go outside and strip all the Type-R logo's from my car. Good thing I didn't get the extra logo's. The next time I get in, I will not have as much fun as I used too, because now I don't have a Type-R anymore. It's now a Civic 2.0 Something. Great, means less speeding tickets and excellent MPG. I will let everyone know if that is really the case. Because frankly, I suspect it won't make a difference whatsoever. If Honda would've called it the Civic Hello Kitty, I still would've gotten one. The name means nothing to me, and there is no well defined written list or book that dictates when a car is "allowed" to wear the Type-R badge. I bet even Honda doesn't know that. You could come close to such a list, but it will never be complete. Just like a car that is also never finished or complete. Simply because a car bears a certain name, people start judging and creating mental images of what it should be like based on that name. "It shows Ferarri on the back, so it will probably go fast and be very luxurious" "Look, a Fiat Panda with a Sport logo. Must be a fast car." Why don't we judge things for what they are ? Not for what we think they should be based on the name ? Or based on something there used to be with that same name. If Clarkson would've approached it that way, some of his points would still be valid. Yes, it's a total mistery why Honda still can't figure out seat-memory, but they do know how the make variable valve timing. Yes, the rear suspension is the car's weakest point. But look at the package as a whole. Take the positives and the negatives and base your judgement on that. Leave the luggage marked "expectation" at home. Nobody's forcing you to expect anything. If you still don't like the car after that, your opinion stands and is as valid as the next persons.

22nd November 2007, 19:08	#119 (permalink)
LNT Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 25th March 2007 Location: England Posts: 249 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	I've only just seen this weeks TG because I was working so I Sky+d it and I haven't looked at Civinfo either so expected some comments on the programme here. At the end of the day, millions of different cars are sold everyday, and not everyone buys a car which JC thinks is the DBs. If everyone did, there'd only be about 3 different cars on the road! People buy their cars because they like them, they like the looks, or something else about it which suits them. For me it was about combining really low running costs with something that was really comfortable, nice to drive and had all the toys I needed. Looks weren't that important, but I still like the look of it, and you don't see many about, so I also like the exclusivity. You don't have to defend your car because you have one so best not to get too hung up about what the likes of JC or any other reviewer says. I love TG but you can't tell me that whatever he says, anyone with an old Type R will probably want a new one because it's newer and looks nicer so is therefore better! Perhaps this is more to do with Honda taking advantage of their customers loyalty and if there are any failings or shortcuts taken on the new car, then Honda should look at themselves and their conscience by taking advantage of that brand loyalty.

22nd November 2007, 20:37	#120 (permalink)
Griffard Valve Cap Join Date: 23rd June 2007 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	At the end of the day he gave an opinion, but personally, and after test driving a GTi etc, I know I bought the best hot hatch out there on the market at the moment. Also, is it such a bad thing that a curly-topped, balding old fart like Clarkson didn't like the car?