EVO Magazine: 2.2 first drive

Pottsy · 5th November 2011, 16:02

Review: Driven: 2012 Honda Civic i-DTEC review and pictures | evo

Quote:

Well the first thing to say is that – if you’re keen on the idea of a Civic - you should buy the 2.2-litre i-DTEC diesel. That might sound like sacrilege when you have the alternative option of an petrol engine with the letters VTEC in its name, but sadly the thrashy 148bhp 1.8-litre petrol is just too gutless to make driving it enjoyable. The diesel isn’t a corker in terms of refinement, but it will at least get you up a mild incline without multiple downshifts, and throttle response is good.

As you’d expect, a standard chassis Civic is not going to set the performance world on fire. Having said that, the ride is pleasingly supple without feeling wallowy (although it struggles slightly through bigger suspension movements at speed), the steering is engagingly direct and overall it feels nicely judged. The pedals are well spaced too and the manual gearshift is relatively close across the gate, so if you found yourself on a decent bit of road it certainly wouldn’t be horribly frustrating. Most importantly, it should ride well on British roads too.

Munro · 6th November 2011, 08:59

9G. EVO review of 2012 Civic

Driven: 2012 Honda Civic i-DTEC review and pictures | evo

EVO conclusions consistent with Pottsy's review.

I doubt the fluid filled bushes will be enought to deal with the big holes in our roads. They only smooth out the small stuff. IRS and plenty of well controlled suspension travel is needed for the bigger holes.

bodgerx · 6th November 2011, 19:24

For a magazine that is supposed to be aimed at the enthusiast driver, I find it amazing that they have a problem with changing gears. Nailing a four pot petrol to the redline is a great driving experience. Next they'll be recommending slush-box autos.

Pottsy · 6th November 2011, 20:33

Did he have a problem changing gears?

He mentioned "multiple downshifts" which are needed in the 1.8 (tall gearing and lack of low down grunt) and the 1.8 Auto (even taller gearing and it does it for you), and "the manual gearshift is relatively close across the gate" referring to the rather nice nature of the short throw change.

bodgerx · 6th November 2011, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pottsy

Did he have a problem changing gears?

He mentioned "multiple downshifts" which are needed in the 1.8 (tall gearing and lack of low down grunt) and the 1.8 Auto (even taller gearing and it does it for you), and "the manual gearshift is relatively close across the gate" referring to the rather nice nature of the short throw change.

I didn't mean that there was a problem changing gears - I meant that they seemed to have an issue with having to do that at all...

Pottsy · 7th November 2011, 00:15

I think the point with this car is that with the 1.8 you do have to do more downshifting than you expect, because the gearing is so long. It is quite different to the 8g car. The 2.2 doesn't suffer from this.

bodgerx · 7th November 2011, 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pottsy

I think the point with this car is that with the 1.8 you do have to do more downshifting than you expect, because the gearing is so long. It is quite different to the 8g car. The 2.2 doesn't suffer from this.

Isn't this always the case with a petrol manual? Especially a high revving, lower torque, Honda VTEC? It is part of the driving experience. If you don't want changing gear to be part of the experience, I'd have thought an auto would have been Evo's thing. Which kind of goes against the nature of the magazine I think. Maybe I'm high and drunk.

rodenal · 8th November 2011, 10:46

Suppose it depends on what you're comparing it against - The majority of the civics' competitors now have a smaller, turbo petrol engine in the slot where the 1.8 sits. These will provide effortless cruising though ultimately are less rewarding.

I agree it's good fun to have a high revving NA engine for the times when you want to be having a bit of fun but given the ultimate lack of power in the 1.8 or its competitors i'd say that 90% of the time something that can make easy, effortless progress is better in this class.

I'm glad they've retained the 1.8, whilst it's never going to be the engine for me it at least gives people a decent choice in the market. It's also really quite economical especially when compared to the real life mpg of engines like VW's 1.4 tsi - as with everything in life there are trade offs to be made

sjg · 1st December 2011, 11:04

Evo have a video up now too:

2012 Honda Civic- Video Review - YouTube

utecki · 1st December 2011, 16:38

hmmmm, I was a little fed up with noisy 1.8, now it seems it's not better and additionaly you will need to make that lever work a lot. 2.2 was my pick, but they won't sell it here. I do not feel like waiting for the 1.6 diesel.

it's parallel import or getting an accord. what do u think?

Jenga_89 · 1st December 2011, 18:28

"the other thing you should remember is that it’s built in Swindon. "
This made me lol Wonder what the quality will be like ?

Jack The Lad. · 1st December 2011, 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodgerx

I didn't mean that there was a problem changing gears - I meant that they seemed to have an issue with having to do that at all...

What would be the point of flooring it through the gears, if the 1.8 is GUTLESS.?

bodgerx · 1st December 2011, 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack The Lad.

What would be the point of flooring it through the gears, if the 1.8 is GUTLESS.?

I don't think they said that. It has 140bhp. Fairly respectible for what it is. You just have to change down. The 0-60 times diesel vs petrol aren't too far away.

Jack The Lad. · 1st December 2011, 20:10

"Well the first thing to say is that – if you’re keen on the idea of a Civic - you should buy the 2.2-litre i-DTEC diesel. That might sound like sacrilege when you have the alternative option of an petrol engine with the letters VTEC in its name, but sadly the thrashy 148bhp 1.8-litre petrol is just too gutless to make driving it enjoyable. The diesel isn’t a corker in terms of refinement, but it will at least get you up a mild incline without multiple downshifts, and throttle response is good."

bodgerx · 1st December 2011, 20:23

Fair enough. Strange how in actual performance they aren't that far away. Thats what torque and the perception of responsiveness gives you.

adsbeau · 1st December 2011, 20:29

I like it looks much better in that colour than that bile green

Jack The Lad. · 1st December 2011, 20:32

Remember that the current 1.8 petrol and the 2.2 diesel Civics, only differed in the 0 -62mph by 0.2 seconds, with the diesel being the faster.

I couldn't stand it in "That Green " either.

Pottsy · 1st December 2011, 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodgerx

Fair enough. Strange how in actual performance they aren't that far away. Thats what torque and the perception of responsiveness gives you.

The diesel is quite different in character. It is much more responsive (it's not a perception - it's real!) at low and mid revs than the 1.8. It's only when at full max rpm thrash that the 2 cars are similar.

The 1.8 encouraged me to drive politely, and it returned a civilised result. The 2.2 encouraged me to be somewhat rude.

J. Derek Riddell · 1st December 2011, 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pottsy

The diesel is quite different in character. It is much more responsive (it's not a perception - it's real!) at low and mid revs than the 1.8. It's only when at full max rpm thrash that the 2 cars are similar. The 1.8 encouraged me to drive politely, and it returned a civilised result. The 2.2 encouraged me to be somewhat rude.

Can't speak about the 9th. Gen. as it's going to be a while before it is seen here ! ...

However, I well understand the "gutless 1.8" comment regarding the 8th. Gen. (ex-works at least) - "gutless" being a subjective viewpoint (oh, all right, crap response at low revs !) ...

However, adding a K&N 57i air filter and a 3-Drive digital throttle controller made the overall response so much 'perkier' - and those who have had Elite Tuning's "ECU-cracking remap" are like dogs with 2 tails - (relatively) cheap mods., with an enormous improvement in driver pleasure ...

Having said that, what in the name of God's Holy Trousers led Honda to think that even taller gearing was "good thing"

...

(Shakes head and various other body parts, and heads for the white wine in the fridge) ...

utecki · 2nd December 2011, 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Derek Riddell

Having said that, what in the name of God's Holy Trousers led Honda to think that even taller gearing was "good thing"

...

it's a challenge for the tuners

6th November 2011, 08:59	#2 (permalink)
Munro Supporter Join Date: 10th August 2007 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,929 Thanks given: 89 Thanked 138 Times in 108 Posts iTrader: (2)	9G. EVO review of 2012 Civic 9G. EVO review of 2012 Civic Driven: 2012 Honda Civic i-DTEC review and pictures \| evo EVO conclusions consistent with Pottsy's review. I doubt the fluid filled bushes will be enought to deal with the big holes in our roads. They only smooth out the small stuff. IRS and plenty of well controlled suspension travel is needed for the bigger holes.

8th November 2011, 10:46	#8 (permalink)
rodenal Join Date: 5th October 2011 Location: Glasgow, UK Posts: 134 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts iTrader: (1)	Suppose it depends on what you're comparing it against - The majority of the civics' competitors now have a smaller, turbo petrol engine in the slot where the 1.8 sits. These will provide effortless cruising though ultimately are less rewarding. I agree it's good fun to have a high revving NA engine for the times when you want to be having a bit of fun but given the ultimate lack of power in the 1.8 or its competitors i'd say that 90% of the time something that can make easy, effortless progress is better in this class. I'm glad they've retained the 1.8, whilst it's never going to be the engine for me it at least gives people a decent choice in the market. It's also really quite economical especially when compared to the real life mpg of engines like VW's 1.4 tsi - as with everything in life there are trade offs to be made Last edited by rodenal; 8th November 2011 at 10:54.

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6th November 2011, 19:24	#3 (permalink)
bodgerx Car: 2008 ES 1.8 i-VTEC i-Shift Join Date: 25th December 2010 Location: UK Posts: 1,220 Thanks given: 21 Thanked 83 Times in 80 Posts iTrader: (1)	For a magazine that is supposed to be aimed at the enthusiast driver, I find it amazing that they have a problem with changing gears. Nailing a four pot petrol to the redline is a great driving experience. Next they'll be recommending slush-box autos.

6th November 2011, 20:33	#4 (permalink)
Pottsy Administrator Thread starter Car: Jag XF 3.0 Join Date: 10th April 2006 Location: Leics Posts: 12,359 Thanks given: 127 Thanked 2,283 Times in 780 Posts iTrader: (0)	Did he have a problem changing gears? He mentioned "multiple downshifts" which are needed in the 1.8 (tall gearing and lack of low down grunt) and the 1.8 Auto (even taller gearing and it does it for you), and "the manual gearshift is relatively close across the gate" referring to the rather nice nature of the short throw change.

7th November 2011, 00:15	#6 (permalink)
Pottsy Administrator Thread starter Car: Jag XF 3.0 Join Date: 10th April 2006 Location: Leics Posts: 12,359 Thanks given: 127 Thanked 2,283 Times in 780 Posts iTrader: (0)	I think the point with this car is that with the 1.8 you do have to do more downshifting than you expect, because the gearing is so long. It is quite different to the 8g car. The 2.2 doesn't suffer from this.

1st December 2011, 16:38	#10 (permalink)
utecki Join Date: 15th December 2008 Location: Warsaw Posts: 311 Thanks given: 6 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts iTrader: (0)	hmmmm, I was a little fed up with noisy 1.8, now it seems it's not better and additionaly you will need to make that lever work a lot. 2.2 was my pick, but they won't sell it here. I do not feel like waiting for the 1.6 diesel. it's parallel import or getting an accord. what do u think?

1st December 2011, 18:28	#11 (permalink)
Jenga_89 Car: 2008 Milano CTR Join Date: 5th October 2010 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 371 Thanks given: 96 Thanked 25 Times in 25 Posts iTrader: (3)	"the other thing you should remember is that it’s built in Swindon. " This made me lol Wonder what the quality will be like ?

1st December 2011, 20:10	#14 (permalink)
Jack The Lad. Supporter Join Date: 28th August 2007 Location: ENGLAND Posts: 4,397 Thanks given: 20 Thanked 263 Times in 256 Posts iTrader: (0)	"Well the first thing to say is that – if you’re keen on the idea of a Civic - you should buy the 2.2-litre i-DTEC diesel. That might sound like sacrilege when you have the alternative option of an petrol engine with the letters VTEC in its name, but sadly the thrashy 148bhp 1.8-litre petrol is just too gutless to make driving it enjoyable. The diesel isn’t a corker in terms of refinement, but it will at least get you up a mild incline without multiple downshifts, and throttle response is good."

1st December 2011, 20:23	#15 (permalink)
bodgerx Car: 2008 ES 1.8 i-VTEC i-Shift Join Date: 25th December 2010 Location: UK Posts: 1,220 Thanks given: 21 Thanked 83 Times in 80 Posts iTrader: (1)	Fair enough. Strange how in actual performance they aren't that far away. Thats what torque and the perception of responsiveness gives you.

1st December 2011, 20:29	#16 (permalink)
adsbeau Twisted by the Dark side Car: 2006 2.2 sport, silver Join Date: 18th July 2010 Location: chorley, lancs Uk Posts: 1,122 Thanks given: 61 Thanked 139 Times in 127 Posts iTrader: (2)	I like it looks much better in that colour than that bile green

1st December 2011, 20:32	#17 (permalink)
Jack The Lad. Supporter Join Date: 28th August 2007 Location: ENGLAND Posts: 4,397 Thanks given: 20 Thanked 263 Times in 256 Posts iTrader: (0)	Remember that the current 1.8 petrol and the 2.2 diesel Civics, only differed in the 0 -62mph by 0.2 seconds, with the diesel being the faster. I couldn't stand it in "That Green " either.