Tyre Choice I choose 16" instead of 17"

[allan40alt]

I think 'winter' tyres generally have a tread width of 195, but the tread is designed much 'chunkier' to deal with snowy conditions better.

Not really necessary in England I would have thought.

[Honcho]

Originally Posted by Courant

Interesting. Just visited the swiss Honda site (me being half swiss!), and they have 16" tyres listed as an official Honda accessory for the Type-S (page 5):

http://www.honda.ch/hondashop/html/p...71708_9_07.pdf

Same with Honda Germany:

Honda | Automobile | Zubehör

Same car from swindon. Honda UK, go figure! I'll be fitting 16" wheels next winter, come what may.

Courant

Interesting indeed, though they refer to the S Type rather than the EX.

Will you be checking with Honda about the warranty before you fit them?

What about the insurance?

Civicfan suggests it might be related to steel wheels somehow.

I don't think it's engine size. The SE has the same engines as the EX as far as I know, and there are 16'' wheels fitted as standard to that.

Does ANYONE know?

[Courant]

Originally Posted by allan40alt

I think 'winter' tyres generally have a tread width of 195, but the tread is designed much 'chunkier' to deal with snowy conditions better.

Not really necessary in England I would have thought.

No, you can get winter tyres in all widths, however narrow tyres give you a natural advantage in both snow and aquaplaning situations. Winter tyres are far more than just a chunkier tread... the compound is designed for cooler weather (you get a performance improvement below about 5-7 degrees Centigrade), consequently their biggest advantage on UK roads is the nasty wet & cold driving conditions you get quite often, there's a distinct improvement in grip. Plus, it goes without saying, that performance on ice/snow/slush is a radical step up from summer tyres.

I've fitted them for the past 3 winters and would now never consider not fitting them in the future, such is the safety margin they give you for just a small investment in extra wheels/rubber.

Courant

[Courant]

Originally Posted by Honcho

Will you be checking with Honda about the warranty before you fit them?

What about the insurance?

No, I would personally just fit them. If there is a warranty issue, Honda have a lot of arguing to do! However, you may feel differently. There's possibly a case for a few people to get together and get some sense out of Honda, and a definitive answer so people don't get messed around.

Courant

[Honcho]

Getting messed around by Honda seems to happen quite a lot, if this site is anything to go by.

A group enquiry is a good idea. Perhaps addressed to the Director of Engineering, though previous experience of high level correspondence by members doesn't provide much optimism.

Anyway, I don't feel we have any convincing, technically literate rebuttal, if they simply decide to stick to the same line.

How about it you engineers?

We're probably depressing/confusing Nico terribly with all this. Sorry!

[alanwalne]

Originally Posted by Honcho

Unfortunately Honda are still adamant that the 17'' on EX models must not be swapped for 16'', despite the clear improvement in ride. This, they say, is due to steering and braking problems, and would no doubt affect any warranty claim.

I know some have done it. But who's prepared to risk it?

Funny if it affects the speedo (which is miles out anyway!!) they will sell you (for more money of course) 17" wheels for an SE & ES!!! Does that not cause these problems (the other ways round) as well???

Oh, sorry it is OK then because Honda are getting more money from you and there is no sizable market for 2nd hand 16" wheels as most cars have std alloys.

However if you sell 17" wheels you are reducing Honda's own (luctrative) market for selling aftermarket wheels.

The only problem I can think of is the disc finishers fitted to cars with factory 17" wheels.

Honda's answer holds no water unless they can explain why it is OK to increse wheel size without adjusting the suspension settings, yet not decrease it.

[pcr]

Well, the manual says 16" are OK.
My minority view is that the car is best suited to 16". Could it be that 17" have to be offered because that is what the competitors offer, which might suit their cars better than the Civic. Fine, put them on the Sport model, but I expect the EX (Executive ???) model to be the most comfortable, cetainly not worse than the other models.

[civicfan]

Originally Posted by allan40alt

I think 'winter' tyres generally have a tread width of 195, but the tread is designed much 'chunkier' to deal with snowy conditions better.

Not really necessary in England I would have thought.

Mine are 205

[allan40alt]

Originally Posted by civicfan

Mine are 205

Yes, I was mis-informed on that point.

205 is the standard tyre width for the 16" as well. The 17" wheel has the 225 as a standard width.

[Honcho]

Mystery wrapped in enigma, mired in confusion. Honda is prevaricating, but I just can't see why.

We're only seeking ways to make their premium model ride better.

Wasn't there someone on this site who worked for Honda?

Perhaps....?

[Unknownsoldier]

Where would one buy steel wheels (and winter tyres from) from? Never having had to do it, I wouldn't know where to start. Also are they any storage problems, like flat spots, rubber deterioration etc. etc.???

ATB,
Tom

[civicfan]

Originally Posted by Unknownsoldier

Where would one buy steel wheels (and winter tyres from) from? Never having had to do it, I wouldn't know where to start. Also are they any storage problems, like flat spots, rubber deterioration etc. etc.???

ATB,
Tom

Well, as mentioned, I got mine from the dealer's - I might have gone for alloys in 17" size but for the winter I prefer 16" on steels (if I catch a pothole, chances are better that my wheel isn't smashed and in most cases the steel wheel can be repaired if it's smashed). Nice side effect: the price per set is 30-50% lower. Why the rubber deterioration should coincede with the wheel size I don't quite understand ?

[Courant]

Originally Posted by Unknownsoldier

Where would one buy steel wheels (and winter tyres from) from? Never having had to do it, I wouldn't know where to start. Also are they any storage problems, like flat spots, rubber deterioration etc. etc.???

Steel or alloy, doesn't really matter. I'll probably just pick up a set of 16" standard alloys secondhand from someone who's looking to upgrade. Seems to be an active market!

Winter tyres you can get through most tyre places, though their choice is limited. I got my last set sent by post from Tyres at mytyres.co.uk: car tyres, 4x4 tyres and van tyres at low prices and got them fitted at the local tyre place for £10 a corner (Dunlop Winter Sport M3, excellent and highly recommended. Actually there is are a range of tyres available, from out-and-out snow-munchers with very aggressive treads to cold weather clear-road performance tyres. The Dunlops fall into the latter category). When you store them, just stack them horizontally in the corner of the garage. No issues if you keep the pumped up and out of the sun.

A further point is that treadwear on winter tyres is lower than summer tyres in cold conditions (this situation is reversed in the summer!). So, by fitting winter tyres, you burn less rubber over the course of a year.

Courant

[Unknownsoldier]

Cool, thanks, I'll keep my eyes out then

ATB,
Tom

[knd]

" The wider the tyre the better for safety, especially in the wet."
This is in fact is not completly true.
Your chances to get aquaplanning/hydroplaning in a wider tire are bigger.
A tire need to push the water from the middle of the tire to the exterior without lifting the car/tire of the road. A narrow tire has less contact surface so it's less likely to lift.
In dry,larger tires = more grip = more friction.

"Narrow tyre = less grip. That's probably why the 'space saver' spare has a recommended top speed of 50mph"
It's really thinner, it has a lower speed rating, it's not supposed to use them in long distances....it's only to get you to a tire shop.
and it's a "space saver" because it need less space than a normal spare.

and for the main topic question...you can put 16" inch wheels...it's more confortable.Offers you a smoother and confortable ride.
It's a matter of taste (maybe when i get old i'll think different...for now, little hard ride it's no bad :P)

[allan40alt]

Originally Posted by knd

" The wider the tyre the better for safety, especially in the wet."
This is in fact is not completly true.
Your chances to get aquaplanning/hydroplaning in a wider tire are bigger.
A tire need to push the water from the middle of the tire to the exterior without lifting the car/tire of the road. A narrow tire has less contact surface so it's less likely to lift.
In dry,larger tires = more grip = more friction.

"Narrow tyre = less grip. That's probably why the 'space saver' spare has a recommended top speed of 50mph"
It's really thinner, it has a lower speed rating, it's not supposed to use them in long distances....it's only to get you to a tire shop.
and it's a "space saver" because it need less space than a normal spare.

and for the main topic question...you can put 16" inch wheels...it's more confortable.Offers you a smoother and confortable ride.
It's a matter of taste (maybe when i get old i'll think different...for now, little hard ride it's no bad :P)

Sorry I spoke!

PS: Well lets have a look at that again..

i: You should always drive at a speed suitable for prevailing conditions.

ii: Narrower tyres usually go on lighter, less powered vehicles. The lighter the vehicle the more prone it will be to aquaplaning.

iii: Space savers: How do you know how far you will have to drive? If it's 11pm and you still have 150 miles to drive to get home then the nearest tyre depot won't be open.

iv: 16" wheels mean the tyre side wall will be deeper making it less stable on cornering in the dry; add this to the narrower tread and you have a potentially dangerous combination.

v: As a 'seasoned' driver with almost 50 years of experience in driving all types of vehicles from double-deck busses to high performance cars, and with only one accident in all that time (when a front tyre blew at speed) and in all types of weather, then I stand by what I said in that it is dangerous to put 16" wheels on a car that manufacturers deem necessary to fit 17" as standard and do not recommend downsizing.

[Honcho]

Originally Posted by allan40alt

v: As a 'seasoned' driver with almost 50 years of experience in driving all types of vehicles from double-deck busses to high performance cars, and with only one accident in all that time (when a front tyre blew at speed) and in all types of weather, then I stand by what I said in that it is dangerous to put 16" wheels on a car that manufacturers deem necessary to fit 17" as standard and do not recommend downsizing.

Can't get within a mile of your driving record, that's for sure!

But why should the SE model Civic, to all intents and purposes identical to the EX, be supplied with 16'' wheels as standard?

And why should Honda make contradictory statements about it in different media?

[allan40alt]

Originally Posted by Honcho

But why should the SE model Civic, to all intents and purposes identical to the EX, be supplied with 16'' wheels as standard?

And why should Honda make contradictory statements about it in different media?

I agree, it doesn't make sense, unless they feel that with the extra equipment on the EX it makes it 'borderline' regarding weight ratio, but then again you could be riding on your own, or with 4 passengers; unless they base the calculations on the maximum passengers anyway?

...well I guess that's a question that only the Honda technical can answer. Maybe Honda are just protecting themselves in case of any subsequent litigation.

For 'general' everyday driving it probably is OK to downsize, but you never know when that moment of excitement may happen and you feel the need to push it a bit... and that happens quite often in the Civic, even at my age, I'm pleased to say.

[FWH]

Originally Posted by Unknownsoldier

Also are they any storage problems, like flat spots, rubber deterioration etc. etc.???

You should store them lying down in a cool dark space.
Not in the plastic bags they sometimes are delivered in.

[GHGH]

My iVTEC Sport was delivered with one set of summer wheels on 17" alloys, and one set of winter tyres on 16" alloys (all standard honda). I cannot say that 16" winter wheels are standard here - many choose 17"s on both, but my dealer RECOMMENDED 16" winter alloys, and many follow this advice from the dealer.
The wheels have almost identical circumference - 225/45-17 and 205/55-16.
It sounds very strange that Honda UK don't accept 16".