Suspension Springs Fitted Upside Down At Rear!!

Glepor · 28th April 2008, 16:09

Following on from the previous thread:
Droning/Roaring Noise & Refuelling
I took my car in to Lincoln Honda on Saturday for a once over and they found that the rear springs had been fitted upside down!! The Service Manager says that this is not the first time he's known this and there have been cases of it having happened from the factory. He was very woolly however on what the effects of this would have been and in particular whether it would account for the unusual tyre wear on the rear of my vehicle (probably because I would then be expecting compensation for 2 ruined tyres). Does anyone with mechanical knowledge know what the effects of upside down springs would likely be?

pcr · 28th April 2008, 16:38

My springs were like that. Reversing them made not a scrap of difference to ride comfort or the spurious clunks from the suspension. As for rear tyres, after 14,000 miles, mine are developing a slight feathering on the inside edge. I believe this might be common with this type of suspension + wide tyres.

FWH · 28th April 2008, 18:13

Doubt there would be any major differance unless it somehow effects the camber / caster angles.

How long have you been driving the car like this?

Glepor · 28th April 2008, 22:51

I only bought the car two and a half weeks ago. It was registered in Nov 05, used as a demo by Westgate Honda Grimsby for the 1st 6,000 miles of its life and then bought by the person I purchased it from. She's adamant that no work has ever been done on the suspension, except on a dropped bump-stop.

MisterTee · 28th April 2008, 22:57

Hmmm.. I know this will go down like a lead balloon, but if I knew the Civic was manufactured in the UK when I bought it, I wouldn't have bought it. I like German and Japanese cars because they are generally well designed and made, unfortunately British engineering isn't what it used to be.

Looking at this website, kind of backs me up.

smb09_1999 · 28th April 2008, 23:16

same problem here and like previously mentioned, made not a jot of difference. still get the clunks and creaks!

Moose · 29th April 2008, 07:52

How was upside down spring problem spotted? And is it easy for me to check for myself?

Glepor · 29th April 2008, 11:46

I wouldn't have known what to look for I'm afraid Moose. The mechanics spotted it when I took it in to investigate the unusual tyre wear. I still haven't been able to find someone who can say if the upside down springs may have contributed.

Moose · 29th April 2008, 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glepor

I wouldn't have known what to look for I'm afraid Moose. The mechanics spotted it when I took it in to investigate the unusual tyre wear. I still haven't been able to find someone who can say if the upside down springs may have contributed.

Just mines off in to the Dealers tomorrow for the handbrake. so thought i'd talk to the blokes there and see what they had to say. They might have a look for nothing. Cheers Glepor for reply

pcr · 29th April 2008, 12:20

As I said, my springs were corrected by the dealer. There is a red spot about one coil down from one end. This spot should be at the top, you will probably need a torch and a mirror to see it.

NH Dan · 29th April 2008, 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterTee

Hmmm.. I know this will go down like a lead balloon, but if I knew the Civic was manufactured in the UK when I bought it, I wouldn't have bought it. I like German and Japanese cars because they are generally well designed and made, unfortunately British engineering isn't what it used to be.

Looking at this website, kind of backs me up.

Take a look at this thread (Build Quality) and delve further, quite often 'japanese' and 'German' built cars aren't that. These days cars are assembled all over the globe.

Moose · 29th April 2008, 12:37

Next time my overalls are on then, thanks pcr

3rd Honda · 29th April 2008, 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterTee

Hmmm.. I know this will go down like a lead balloon, but if I knew the Civic was manufactured in the UK when I bought it, I wouldn't have bought it. I like German and Japanese cars because they are generally well designed and made, unfortunately British engineering isn't what it used to be.

Looking at this website, kind of backs me up.

It won't go down like a lead balloon - its 100% correct.

My two previous Hondas were both USA built - and were very well made. The courtesy car Jazzs I have had have all been pretty good. The Civic is under-developed and thrown together using some poor quality parts and materials with no evidence of a decent inspection/quality control system, and indeed now a good deal of evidence on this site that there is no such system .... all backed up by a customer services dept who couldn't care less.

GHGH · 29th April 2008, 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rd Honda

It won't go down like a lead balloon - its 100% correct.

My two previous Hondas were both USA built - and were very well made. The courtesy car Jazzs I have had have all been pretty good. The Civic is under-developed and thrown together using some poor quality parts and materials with no evidence of a decent inspection/quality control system, and indeed now a good deal of evidence on this site that there is no such system .... all backed up by a customer services dept who couldn't care less.

Why then the high score in Auto Express?

Driver Power 2007 | Car Reviews | Auto Express

Glepor · 15th May 2008, 11:02

After 3 and a half weeks of waiting and several calls to Lincoln Honda, the Service Manager finally got back to me today. He's spoken to Honda UK and they are adamant that the upside down springs would not have caused the uneven tyre wear or indeed the pull to the left that the mechanics admit also exists. All they would have expected would be some squeaking. They say that if I have a 4-wheel alignment done at a cost of £65 and they find that the alignment is not "within spec", then they will pay for it. If not then it's on me. I asked what would be causing the pull and wear if it is found to be within spec and was told probably tyres. I wasn't aware that tyres alone (as opposed to balance etc) could cause a pull to the left. I don't like to question the integrity of Lincoln Honda, but if I arrange to have the work done, how do I know that they aren't just going to say that it's within spec and put the charge on me? Also, if I replace the rear tyres and in a few thousand miles time the same thing happens again, where will I stand? The warranty runs out in November and it may take until beyond then to notice a significant change in the tyres, by which time they'll no doubt say "not our problem I'm afraid as it's out of warranty". I hate situations like this. I just want a car that works as it should, but I'm not the sort who can just let it lie if I think I'm being fobbed/ripped off. What would others do in this situation? Thanks in advance.

Glepor · 17th May 2008, 09:13

Nobody has an opinion on this? Or is it a boring thread? If so sorry!

rmh999 · 17th May 2008, 10:14

But if you dont do it then they will do nothing... and it also may save you further excess tyre wear which will certainly cost more than £65 - and i would not buy it from you if the test drive showed it pulling.. i would walk away uncertain of any history or potential undisclosed crash underneath.

If you dont want to be fobbed off then ask for what is "in spec" in advance as there will be specific numbers, then once its done you should ask to see the written report even if its only a one page sheet... if it is outside you should get your money back, the problem resolved AND the tyres replaced in my opinion.

My tyre wear is heavy on the front (Diesel) but even from left to right.
Both fronts were dead after 20k miles (mostly motorway style)

Uneven tyre wear is often down to poor pressure (Over-inflated wears the center and under wears the edges), but also Swindon hits outside edges due to roundaboutspushing the front left tyre if its not rush hour

The thing that would concern most is the pull to one side, especially as it is not you being paranoid i.e. they can feel it too - it could also be failed bushes etc would that show in an alignment test... not sure but sould cause it to be out of spec.

After all this it is possible (but unusual) to get a poor quality tyre, that can cause all sorts of weird issues. The easiest test for this would surely to swap the fronts with the rears as it would be highly unlikely that both tyres on one side would be poor quality.....(AND ITS FREE)...not sure why your dealer could no suggest this ...

Hope thats some help...just me own opinions and previous experience though...someone will almost certainly correct something in there

jimp · 17th May 2008, 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcr

As I said, my springs were corrected by the dealer. There is a red spot about one coil down from one end. This spot should be at the top, you will probably need a torch and a mirror to see it.

My friend,,,I Have schanged rear absorbers with new improved and have again noises from the rear part. I was careful however that in the rear springs the red marks is in the down part. Hence are also my own springs error (rong) placed. In yours car when you put the springs in their regular place the noises stop ????

pcr · 17th May 2008, 20:08

Sorry Jimp, the dealer reversed the rear springs so that the red spot is now at the top. It made no difference to the noises.

paul_b · 17th May 2008, 20:33

My June 06 also had upside down rear shocks.

These weren't noticed in the first service, and neither when I complained about creaking noises from the rear a couple of months after buying the car and them taking it in for investigation.

One year later, and at second service time when I complained again, my dealer acknowledged the rear shocks were upside down. I wonder how the first service and then subsequent investigation didn't pick up the problem.

Anyway, shocks now the right way up, and it has got rid of the creaking I was complaining about. Overall things still don't sound great (not sure if it's exhaust or suspension), but the creaking has thankfully gone.

Also at second service, it was noticed my front bump stops had dropped. These were replaced. Something went wrong at replacement time, as when I picked the vehicle up it was intermittently making a terrible noise on the driver side. The dealer took the car in again, and established the whole front right strut needed replacing.

28th April 2008, 16:09	#1 (permalink)
Glepor Supporter Wheelnut Join Date: 9th April 2008 Location: Lincoln, England Posts: 57 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Springs Fitted Upside Down At Rear!! Following on from the previous thread: Droning/Roaring Noise & Refuelling I took my car in to Lincoln Honda on Saturday for a once over and they found that the rear springs had been fitted upside down!! The Service Manager says that this is not the first time he's known this and there have been cases of it having happened from the factory. He was very woolly however on what the effects of this would have been and in particular whether it would account for the unusual tyre wear on the rear of my vehicle (probably because I would then be expecting compensation for 2 ruined tyres). Does anyone with mechanical knowledge know what the effects of upside down springs would likely be?

28th April 2008, 16:38	#2 (permalink)
pcr Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 5th September 2006 Location: Shropshire Posts: 832 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My springs were like that. Reversing them made not a scrap of difference to ride comfort or the spurious clunks from the suspension. As for rear tyres, after 14,000 miles, mine are developing a slight feathering on the inside edge. I believe this might be common with this type of suspension + wide tyres. Last edited by pcr; 28th April 2008 at 16:43.

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This thread is about: Springs Fitted Upside Down At Rear!!, it's in Wheels, Tyres, Suspension and Brakes at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; Following on from the previous thread: http://www.civinfo.com/forum/bugs-fa...efuelling.html I took my car in to Lincoln Honda on Saturday for a once over and they found that ...

28th April 2008, 18:13	#3 (permalink)
FWH Super Moderator Civinfo guru Join Date: 3rd June 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 4,744 Thanks: 2 Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts	Doubt there would be any major differance unless it somehow effects the camber / caster angles. How long have you been driving the car like this?

28th April 2008, 22:51	#4 (permalink)
Glepor Supporter Wheelnut Join Date: 9th April 2008 Location: Lincoln, England Posts: 57 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I only bought the car two and a half weeks ago. It was registered in Nov 05, used as a demo by Westgate Honda Grimsby for the 1st 6,000 miles of its life and then bought by the person I purchased it from. She's adamant that no work has ever been done on the suspension, except on a dropped bump-stop.

28th April 2008, 22:57	#5 (permalink)
MisterTee Supporter Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 23rd February 2008 Location: Manchester,UK Posts: 102 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Hmmm.. I know this will go down like a lead balloon, but if I knew the Civic was manufactured in the UK when I bought it, I wouldn't have bought it. I like German and Japanese cars because they are generally well designed and made, unfortunately British engineering isn't what it used to be. Looking at this website, kind of backs me up.

28th April 2008, 23:16	#6 (permalink)
smb09_1999 Nneeaawwwwwwww Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 15th February 2007 Location: Northumberland Posts: 356 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	same problem here and like previously mentioned, made not a jot of difference. still get the clunks and creaks!

29th April 2008, 07:52	#7 (permalink)
Moose Supporter Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 22nd February 2008 Location: Doncaster Posts: 109 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	How was upside down spring problem spotted? And is it easy for me to check for myself?

29th April 2008, 11:46	#8 (permalink)
Glepor Supporter Wheelnut Join Date: 9th April 2008 Location: Lincoln, England Posts: 57 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I wouldn't have known what to look for I'm afraid Moose. The mechanics spotted it when I took it in to investigate the unusual tyre wear. I still haven't been able to find someone who can say if the upside down springs may have contributed.

29th April 2008, 12:20	#10 (permalink)
pcr Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 5th September 2006 Location: Shropshire Posts: 832 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	As I said, my springs were corrected by the dealer. There is a red spot about one coil down from one end. This spot should be at the top, you will probably need a torch and a mirror to see it.

29th April 2008, 12:37	#12 (permalink)
Moose Supporter Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 22nd February 2008 Location: Doncaster Posts: 109 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Next time my overalls are on then, thanks pcr

15th May 2008, 11:02	#15 (permalink)
Glepor Supporter Wheelnut Join Date: 9th April 2008 Location: Lincoln, England Posts: 57 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	After 3 and a half weeks of waiting and several calls to Lincoln Honda, the Service Manager finally got back to me today. He's spoken to Honda UK and they are adamant that the upside down springs would not have caused the uneven tyre wear or indeed the pull to the left that the mechanics admit also exists. All they would have expected would be some squeaking. They say that if I have a 4-wheel alignment done at a cost of £65 and they find that the alignment is not "within spec", then they will pay for it. If not then it's on me. I asked what would be causing the pull and wear if it is found to be within spec and was told probably tyres. I wasn't aware that tyres alone (as opposed to balance etc) could cause a pull to the left. I don't like to question the integrity of Lincoln Honda, but if I arrange to have the work done, how do I know that they aren't just going to say that it's within spec and put the charge on me? Also, if I replace the rear tyres and in a few thousand miles time the same thing happens again, where will I stand? The warranty runs out in November and it may take until beyond then to notice a significant change in the tyres, by which time they'll no doubt say "not our problem I'm afraid as it's out of warranty". I hate situations like this. I just want a car that works as it should, but I'm not the sort who can just let it lie if I think I'm being fobbed/ripped off. What would others do in this situation? Thanks in advance.

17th May 2008, 09:13	#16 (permalink)
Glepor Supporter Wheelnut Join Date: 9th April 2008 Location: Lincoln, England Posts: 57 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Nobody has an opinion on this? Or is it a boring thread? If so sorry!

17th May 2008, 10:14	#17 (permalink)
rmh999 Supporter Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 3rd August 2006 Location: Swindon, UK Posts: 153 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	But if you dont do it then they will do nothing... and it also may save you further excess tyre wear which will certainly cost more than £65 - and i would not buy it from you if the test drive showed it pulling.. i would walk away uncertain of any history or potential undisclosed crash underneath. If you dont want to be fobbed off then ask for what is "in spec" in advance as there will be specific numbers, then once its done you should ask to see the written report even if its only a one page sheet... if it is outside you should get your money back, the problem resolved AND the tyres replaced in my opinion. My tyre wear is heavy on the front (Diesel) but even from left to right. Both fronts were dead after 20k miles (mostly motorway style) Uneven tyre wear is often down to poor pressure (Over-inflated wears the center and under wears the edges), but also Swindon hits outside edges due to roundaboutspushing the front left tyre if its not rush hour The thing that would concern most is the pull to one side, especially as it is not you being paranoid i.e. they can feel it too - it could also be failed bushes etc would that show in an alignment test... not sure but sould cause it to be out of spec. After all this it is possible (but unusual) to get a poor quality tyre, that can cause all sorts of weird issues. The easiest test for this would surely to swap the fronts with the rears as it would be highly unlikely that both tyres on one side would be poor quality.....(AND ITS FREE)...not sure why your dealer could no suggest this ... Hope thats some help...just me own opinions and previous experience though...someone will almost certainly correct something in there

17th May 2008, 20:08	#19 (permalink)
pcr Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 5th September 2006 Location: Shropshire Posts: 832 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sorry Jimp, the dealer reversed the rear springs so that the red spot is now at the top. It made no difference to the noises.

17th May 2008, 20:33	#20 (permalink)
paul_b Supporter Wheelnut Join Date: 6th April 2007 Location: London/Herts Posts: 65 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	My June 06 also had upside down rear shocks. These weren't noticed in the first service, and neither when I complained about creaking noises from the rear a couple of months after buying the car and them taking it in for investigation. One year later, and at second service time when I complained again, my dealer acknowledged the rear shocks were upside down. I wonder how the first service and then subsequent investigation didn't pick up the problem. Anyway, shocks now the right way up, and it has got rid of the creaking I was complaining about. Overall things still don't sound great (not sure if it's exhaust or suspension), but the creaking has thankfully gone. Also at second service, it was noticed my front bump stops had dropped. These were replaced. Something went wrong at replacement time, as when I picked the vehicle up it was intermittently making a terrible noise on the driver side. The dealer took the car in again, and established the whole front right strut needed replacing.