Suspension Honda dealer claims damaged suspension - NOT convinced

[lewist123]

Well I took my car in today for its 25k service and for some new pads.

It was also supposed to have the CVs changed and the front suspention clunking looked at.

I went to collect it and was told that they didn't do the CVs or look at the clunking shocks because my nearside front suspention and wishbone was damaged as well as the undertray being 'creased'. they then said that i would have to take it to a body shop, have it put on a jig and checked for square etc.

Well, i have not had any form of incident that would cause such damage.

I managed to rest the front plastic valance on a curb when parking face on, i acidently parked over some garden clipings (like small twigs and sticks in a pile). i am sure that neither of those would have caused ANY damage at all, let alone substantial damage to the suspention. The only other thing that could be to blame is i have a set of bricks set into my drive entrance (leading onto gravel) and one day as i drove in one of those bricks lifted and caught against the back of the front wheel arch/floor pan/sill. It made quite a bump, but that was at about 8k, it has been in for a service, and in about 4 times for front end noises and not once was this mentioned before.

So, i thought this is a bit odd. When i got back from the garage i jacked it up, pulled the wheel off and had a good look around and apart from a slightly ripped undertray (maybe as a result of the twig incident) i can't see anything at all wrong.

they mentioned that my wishbone had been 'pushed up and was touching the chassis' and that could be the cause of the clunking. Well i can't see that either.

here are a load of pics, please look and see if you can see anything....





that is what was written on the sheet

here is the car













and the undertray




so what do you think/see??

[cylon2007]

Did you not ask them to put it back on the ramps to show you why they thought it was damaged? It's very hard the see unless you can get under the car the pics you have there look OK.

I'd go back and ask the to actually show you the damage

[lewist123]

yeah i picked that car up at 5.20 and all the techs had gone. I will be back on monday afternoon and get them to throw it back up on the ramps and show me.

This garage has fobbed me off with stupid solutions to problems in the past so i am very wary of anything they tell me.

[Unknownsoldier]

Take it to another garage and ask them to investigate, but don't tell them anything, then recveal what the other garage has said and ask for their opinion, if they tell you (as is my opinion) it's total BS to get out of doing a hard days graft.... then report them to honda and send a copy of both reports, and if necessary a third one.

Tom

[lewist123]

good advice... thanks!

[Unknownsoldier]

As it's under warranty just ask another 2/3 garages their opinion of what the noise is.... it won't cost you anything except your time.

ATB,
Tom

[lewist123]

On a side note, if anyone can guess what the white car is that is just vissible in the last picture, they win a prize

[civicfan]

No damage visible, perhaps they swapped the papers?
The front end noises may have many reasons, on mine it was a loose power steering module (!)
If you have noises when trying to quickly "judder" the steering wheel with the engine off, that may be it

[Unknownsoldier]

Just had another look at the paperwork, does that not look like a last minute alteration/addition, possibly to get out of having to finish it and clock off.......

Tom

[NH Dan]

Just as an aside, If they were being petty, they could have refused to test drive it anyway with your front tyre depth being on/below the legal minimum.

[lewist123]

Civic fan - funily enough i do have a little noise when doing that (like a very quiet clunk) but that is not this particular issue

HN Dan - Well they were going to be changing the front tyres for me at the service (i new they were very low) but they quoted me £316 for a pair of tyres, which is a bit too much. So i told them to leave it. Off to get a pair of Vikings today for 75 each fitted.

[Palindrome]

It's difficult to tell from the photo's but I can't see and substantial impact issues, obviously the underside is exposed to minor impacts.

I would get a second opinion from another dealer not mentioning the report and just mention that you have a knocking from the front end.

Just a side not but I'm guessing they filled out the report after replacing your pads ( this inspection is usually carried out before any work is undertaken) as the report stated both front and rear pads are fine.

[Bacchus]

Not sure if this is relevant but I had to get the geometry fixed on my Civic too. In 2000 miles it ate a tyre to illegal. The only warning I had was on some country roads it felt like I was driving along ripples.

As it is a second hand car I expected the Honda Guarantee to cover it. Nope. It only cost £125 but that's not the point.

Anyway, could this geometry problem be a new Honda phenomena?

[Palindrome]

Originally Posted by Bacchus

Not sure if this is relevant but I had to get the geometry fixed on my Civic too. In 2000 miles it ate a tyre to illegal. The only warning I had was on some country roads it felt like I was driving along ripples.

As it is a second hand car I expected the Honda Guarantee to cover it. Nope. It only cost £125 but that's not the point.

Anyway, could this geometry problem be a new Honda phenomena?

No, all vehicle suspension systems are open to impacts and sadly this is not the fault of the manufacturer!

[lewist123]

Well the plot thickens.... perhaps....

I have been trying to compair the two sides of the car to see if i can see any difference...... and i have found something... well two things actaully!

Firstly.... play the game of spot the difference

Offside (undamaged side)



Nearside (supposedly damaged side)



Can you see it

It is there... honestly...

have you spotted it yet?

Here is the other thing i noticed..

The pics aren't very good due to me not taking the wheel off this time... but there looks like fresh grease around the CV gator. That means that it is either leaking (should have been bloody obvious to the guy servicing it) OR what i think is that they have pulled the gators off and repacked the gator with grease.







the grease is next to the CV gator retention clip thing on the CV cup at the back of the front hub.

The reason i thought that is because since it has come back from servicing the CVs are not clicking quite as badly... my guess is that they new they were failing (due to last time) and have just packed them with grease and fobbed me off.

Comments?

thanks

Lewis

Edit - Palindrome - The fronts have been in for about 5 - 6k ish, and the rears were replaced at that service.

[Bacchus]

Originally Posted by Palindrome

No, all vehicle suspension systems are open to impacts and sadly this is not the fault of the manufacturer!

Ah but!

The Honda garage I bought it from (Lindfield Honda) inspected (ha!) the car and said it was perfect. That was with the rear springs fitted upside down, the tyres at less than 20 psi on the rear and over 45 psi on the front (with one being illegal) and the aforementioned geometry out of alignment.

The day after I bought the car another Honda dealer inspected it and fixed (for free) many of the faults and the recalls not done and wrote a report for me. Both the selling garage and Honda UK are refusing to acknowledge their responsibilities.

It's all such a tedious bore that I think this will be my last Honda. Toyota next probably.

[lewist123]

the difference that i can see on the suspention in the above photos is that there is little offshoot of metal with a hole in at that is clearly vissible in the two above photos. on the 'undamaged' side there is 5 + mm gap between it and chassis, and on the other side the 'damaged' side, that is in fact just touching the chassis.

what this meens i don't know, but as far as i can see, that bit of metal serves no purpose, its not part of the wishbone, its part of the mount, and it doesn't move with the suspention.

I also noted that above the CV joint there is part of the macphearson (sp?) strut, and it is caked in grease... there must have been a split CV boot at some point, or the gator had fallen off!

any more comments?

[pcr]

I'd say that the CV gator has been split next to the Jubilee clip, there seems to be grease everywhere. Also, in second CV picture, is that grease on the gator or silicone sealant.

As for the suspension, the picture seems to show that in the area of interest, the underseal and body panel are in a strange condition. I can't convince myself that both sides are the same contour.

Looked at the spacing on my car, same both sides, as in your first picture.

[lewist123]

interesting.. well the chassis appears to be a different profile on each side. one side, the 'damaged' side as an extra lump or two, but they look like factory floor pan moulds. also they are pointing out, not in (as i would perhaps expect with chassis/floor damage).

I might get it back up the air tomorrow, get both wheels off and see if i can see why that little tab part is bent. If the suspention geometry and angles etc are the same, and it is only that little 'tab' then perhaps it is only that which is bent, and the rest is fine!

as for the CV gator, yeah, i think that either last time or this time, it has split. The circlip/gator clip thing looks to be new, compaired to the smaller one at the driveshaft end, so i think that they had the gators off when it went into the garage for the service.



I can't see or feel any splits at the moment, but i will have a better look tomorrow.

[lewist123]

anyone know what that little tab actually does?