Brakes Brake wear

[ITSRICKSCIVIC]

AH The joys of owning a diesel.
Next time you need pads changing buy some greensfuff ones from your local partco

[valmiki]

bought and picked up my wife's civic last saturday, it's one year old and just had it's first service, got 11k miles on the clock.

i asked to see the work sheet for the service that they just happened to not include with all the ownership paperwork:

front pads 90% worn
rear pads 50% worn

front tyres (oem michelin) 5mm
rear tyres 7mm

after 11k miles I say! really - 11K miles! unbelievable.....wasn't expecting this on the new civics tbh. and this is in the 1.8 EX (with 17" I believe).

out of interest what sort of prices are people paying on here to replace brake pads?

my wife's last car was a previous gen Civic on a Y-plate. The dealer charged £80-ish for pads on those, though I'm loathe to use my local dealer for any more servicing than is necessary - my last run-in was bad enough.

[andy.stryker]

Hi, My Ex-Honda garage charged me £42.55 + VAT per disk and £38.30 + VAT per set of pads and then charged me £93.00 + VAT to fit them.

[czechplastik]

Originally Posted by Kpow99

Here's a funny thing, called my usual stealer as needed new wiper blades, told the guy that I needed wipers for new shape 2006 civic, reply was "Do you just want fronts? I tell you what I nearly PMSL

Thats hilarious! I must make sure to have the pads checked at service tomorrow.

Another thing to the list

[valmiki]

i've bought a set of front & rear pads from Holdcroft for £66, going to get my local neighbourhood mechanic to fit them (shouldn't charge more than £50 or so)

cheers guys

[ScotCiv]

Originally Posted by Kpow99

Thanks for the driving lesson there Funny, they didn't mention that when I did my advanced driving test

They wouldn't. Lots of engine braking is frowned upon by IAM etc. Quite right too.

[Kpow99]

As suspected....just been in for 25k mile service and asked specifically about the pad wear. The first set was 95% worn when I had them changed at 16K miles which was a big surprise to me as most of my driving is motorway and outside of rush hours as I work shifts.

The front pad wear after 9k miles was believe it or not....wait for it.....20% at that rate of wear I should have, give or take a few miles, 40K+ I mentioned this to the assistant service manager and he said "I take your point" well that's no bloody good to me cos the pads cost me £85 to have replaced.

So have they ripped me off on the first set of pads or was there something fundamentally wrong that they have now covered up.

When I collected the car the trip comp was on 157.8 miles, I asked if they had done a road test.."Yes sir, road tests are carried out on that service", did you do a road test to investigate the noise from the brakes..."Yes sir, no noise detected". Paid my money and went down to the car, trip computer was at.......157.9 miles....100 YARDS!!!!!!!!!!

Went back in and complained, you lied to me, sad that you done a road test and it's done 100 yards...."oh, very sorry sir, theres no record of it not being done here?!?"

OMFG what next, every time I go in there I have to go twice for them to find and repair....Front pads, front suspension, HFT, rear pads the list goes on.

Time to name and shame....EWELL HONDA in Ewell Surrey. I'll be back on the phone in a minute speaking to the service manager and a letter in the post to the general manager I think.

[TTDegs]

Mine's in for service 2 today too

front bads - 99% worn...

(service 1 was 30% worn...)

[valmiki]

Originally Posted by valmiki

i asked to see the work sheet for the service that they just happened to not include with all the ownership paperwork:

front pads 90% worn
rear pads 50% worn

front tyres (oem michelin) 5mm
rear tyres 7mm

after 11k miles I say! really - 11K miles! unbelievable.....wasn't expecting this on the new civics tbh. and this is in the 1.8 EX (with 17" I believe).

as I mentioned above, when we went to pick up the car I had a copy made of the worksheet which, I thought, had the above notations.

In the rush, I managed to lose the sheet so I only posted the above from memory. I phoned the dealers later in the week, and asked for a copy of the worksheet, initially the woman on the phone stated that they didn't normally give out sheets for services done while the car is owned by them, but I said that the sales guy had copied it for me, just that I had misplaced it.

Worksheet turns up in the post.

'90% worn': turns out that 90% had been written in, but the 'worn' had been crossed out and 'left' added. In my mind I had remembered the 90% figure, and the fact that it should have be 'worn', hence my confusion. I cannot tell whether the 'left' was added after I had had seen the sheet for the first time. Same thing for the rear pads, 'worn' crossed out and 'left' written in. However 50% doesn't make much difference either way.

another quick examination of the pads shows that they could be right, there seems ample pad left (in comparison to the pads I bought off Gareth). So, I have a spare set of pads! No bother I don't mind keeping them until I need them.

It could be that someone (maybe fresh-faced trainees) are writing in the wrong way on the sheet?

kpow I can understand your frustration. I cannot believe that front pads wear down that quick (16k motorway miles). Now if it had been 95% left, that would probably be normal in comparison!

In any case, I think I'll just wait until the pads are low enough for the audible reminder to kick in. Whatever your type of driving (motorway vs. around town) I'm sure you'll have enough mileage to get the pads changed soon enough. Just a shame that you can't trust some dealers.

[Kpow99]

Well since posting I've written my letter, it is still 1st draft but I'm so mad about this it has to be done, first to dealer principal and then on from there, quite long but bear with me on this



Since I have had ownership of the above car I have been a frequent customer of your after sales service department, so much so I now feel I have to write to you to get some explanation of the problems I have had with my car and the service I have received.

I appreciate that my car wasn’t purchased from your showroom, but was however, purchased from your dealer group, which is why I am starting with you as my first point of official contact.

If you care to look up the history of visits my car has had at your service department you might start to see some sort of pattern emerging, I think the best thing to do is list this visits a best I can and hope your staff have kept a detailed record. In no particular order as follows……

1)HFT system was not responding properly to voice commands and frequent complaints from people I was talking to that they couldn’t hear me properly. Visit to service resulted in “no fault found”. After some considerable research from my self with other owners and Honda I found that there was a general fault and fix and got a name of someone in technical at Honda UK that I could quote. Went back and your staff were able to contact Honda UK and got an official fix. 2 visits.

2)Front suspension was making a squeaking noise when going over speed bumps and had to drive very slowly over them. Brought the car in for check and road test. “No fault found”. Again did some research with several other Civic owners and after persistent noise I booked in again. Suspension was missing the bump stops and had to be replaced, booked in and replaced. 3 visits.

3)Front Pad at first service highlighted as needing replacement shortly, surprised at this considering the mileage I do on the motorway outside of normal congestion hours but took advice. Booked in and had replaced at 16k miles or there about. No excessive wear mentioned for rear pads. Note this information for later.

4)Noticed a slight metal on metal noise and booked in for check “No fault found”. Noise got worse very quickly so booked in again, rear pads had worn 100% and damaged the discs after 18k miles. Very surprised at this as rear brakes do about 20% of the work usually. Parts not in stock and had to leave car there, staff ready to take my money for the work. Went away and did some research again and called ***** ***** asking for this problem to be double checked as something is not right. Only 1 pad had worn 100% as it was not seated in the calliper properly, not picked up on the first service either. Had to wait 2 weeks without my car for replacement parts. Steve did a good job in getting hire car for me and Honda UK agreed to pay for all of it as it was a defect and inconvenience to myself. 3 visits.

5)Car due 25k mile service so booked in for today, mentioned when booking about a metal on metal noise coming from the brakes once they had warmed up a bit and was told a note would be made. Dropped car off this morning and mentioned again the noise and checked that a road test would be completed under investigation. Received a call this afternoon to say that the service was complete and that no fault was found. Paid my money and asked if road test was completed, “Yes sir it has and is usually with a 25k mile service” Problem here is that my trip computer had 157.8 miles when I left it off and 157.9 when I picked it up!!!!! 100 yards not much of a road test I think you would agree. Spoke to ***** ***** on service reception and didn’t have any idea that the test wasn’t completed or why it wasn’t. Asked if I’d like to book it in again. 2 Visits.

I think you would agree about a pattern emerging here of the number of times I have to come down in my precious time and wait around for things that should have been done first time.

Now back to point 3, this service highlighted that my front pads had worn 20%, nothing unusual about that, but that was after 9k miles from the first set being replaced. Now simple maths would say that would give me roughly 40k miles, give or take a few thousand, which is considerably more than the first set which had worn at 16k miles and a rear set at 18k miles. So at several visits down the line and £85 worse off for front pads you can now see there was something wrong, so how should I look at this?!?! Was I conned in to buying new pads? Was there mechanical service far below what I’m sure you and Honda UK would expect? Or was there something fundamentally wrong with the pads for them to have worn so quickly?

You can see now why I am showing my concern to you at a lack of service far below what I expected from someone holding Honda’s flag and how the “Power of dreams” has turned into a nightmare.

So you can see that I distrust what I have now been told in the past based on the fact that I have been lied to today about the road test on my car and that no fault was found, what else have I not been told the truth about??? More importantly the safety of my family and I as the main visits were related to brakes and suspension.

So what happens now? I’ll give you some time to get some information together to be able to respond to my concerns and see if there is a need to progress this further, also what you are prepared to do to satisfy me that my custom, my car and my family’s safety are safe in your hands.

Looking forward to your quick response.






There you go, did you read it all?

[czechplastik]

Originally Posted by TTDegs

Mine's in for service 2 today too

front bads - 99% worn...

(service 1 was 30% worn...)

I had 80% at first service

[l-noel]

Originally Posted by Kpow99

Well since posting I've written my letter, it is still 1st draft but I'm so mad about this it has to be done, first to dealer principal and then on from there, quite long but bear with me on this



Since I have had ownership of the above car I have been a frequent customer of your after sales service department, so much so I now feel I have to write to you to get some explanation of the problems I have had with my car and the service I have received.

I appreciate that my car wasn’t purchased from your showroom, but was however, purchased from your dealer group, which is why I am starting with you as my first point of official contact.

If you care to look up the history of visits my car has had at your service department you might start to see some sort of pattern emerging, I think the best thing to do is list this visits a best I can and hope your staff have kept a detailed record. In no particular order as follows……

1)HFT system was not responding properly to voice commands and frequent complaints from people I was talking to that they couldn’t hear me properly. Visit to service resulted in “no fault found”. After some considerable research from my self with other owners and Honda I found that there was a general fault and fix and got a name of someone in technical at Honda UK that I could quote. Went back and your staff were able to contact Honda UK and got an official fix. 2 visits.

2)Front suspension was making a squeaking noise when going over speed bumps and had to drive very slowly over them. Brought the car in for check and road test. “No fault found”. Again did some research with several other Civic owners and after persistent noise I booked in again. Suspension was missing the bump stops and had to be replaced, booked in and replaced. 3 visits.

3)Front Pad at first service highlighted as needing replacement shortly, surprised at this considering the mileage I do on the motorway outside of normal congestion hours but took advice. Booked in and had replaced at 16k miles or there about. No excessive wear mentioned for rear pads. Note this information for later.

4)Noticed a slight metal on metal noise and booked in for check “No fault found”. Noise got worse very quickly so booked in again, rear pads had worn 100% and damaged the discs after 18k miles. Very surprised at this as rear brakes do about 20% of the work usually. Parts not in stock and had to leave car there, staff ready to take my money for the work. Went away and did some research again and called ***** ***** asking for this problem to be double checked as something is not right. Only 1 pad had worn 100% as it was not seated in the calliper properly, not picked up on the first service either. Had to wait 2 weeks without my car for replacement parts. Steve did a good job in getting hire car for me and Honda UK agreed to pay for all of it as it was a defect and inconvenience to myself. 3 visits.

5)Car due 25k mile service so booked in for today, mentioned when booking about a metal on metal noise coming from the brakes once they had warmed up a bit and was told a note would be made. Dropped car off this morning and mentioned again the noise and checked that a road test would be completed under investigation. Received a call this afternoon to say that the service was complete and that no fault was found. Paid my money and asked if road test was completed, “Yes sir it has and is usually with a 25k mile service” Problem here is that my trip computer had 157.8 miles when I left it off and 157.9 when I picked it up!!!!! 100 yards not much of a road test I think you would agree. Spoke to ***** ***** on service reception and didn’t have any idea that the test wasn’t completed or why it wasn’t. Asked if I’d like to book it in again. 2 Visits.

I think you would agree about a pattern emerging here of the number of times I have to come down in my precious time and wait around for things that should have been done first time.

Now back to point 3, this service highlighted that my front pads had worn 20%, nothing unusual about that, but that was after 9k miles from the first set being replaced. Now simple maths would say that would give me roughly 40k miles, give or take a few thousand, which is considerably more than the first set which had worn at 16k miles and a rear set at 18k miles. So at several visits down the line and £85 worse off for front pads you can now see there was something wrong, so how should I look at this?!?! Was I conned in to buying new pads? Was there mechanical service far below what I’m sure you and Honda UK would expect? Or was there something fundamentally wrong with the pads for them to have worn so quickly?

You can see now why I am showing my concern to you at a lack of service far below what I expected from someone holding Honda’s flag and how the “Power of dreams” has turned into a nightmare.

So you can see that I distrust what I have now been told in the past based on the fact that I have been lied to today about the road test on my car and that no fault was found, what else have I not been told the truth about??? More importantly the safety of my family and I as the main visits were related to brakes and suspension.

So what happens now? I’ll give you some time to get some information together to be able to respond to my concerns and see if there is a need to progress this further, also what you are prepared to do to satisfy me that my custom, my car and my family’s safety are safe in your hands.

Looking forward to your quick response.






There you go, did you read it all?

Yes I do


That's the kind of letter I'm kind to write : Fact, date and name, point !

If I where the manager I would prefer this type of letter where I can check thing with my staff than a mourning letter without substance.

Go for it !

[andy.stryker]

Be careful, the audible warning is a high pitched squeel, just before you have no pads left to brake the car that is currently travelling at high speed!!!

[jayt43]

Kpow99,

Not sure about your closing paragraphs (last two). As upset as you rightly are, it's preferable to refrain from using terms such as "lied to" and "what else have I not been told the truth about?".

Instead, you should draw together all of the information given to request a point by point reply, starting with today's episode which shows a "worrying discrepancy" between the advice given i.e. "yes, a road test was carried out" and the mileage given on your trip counter.

Essentially, many of your complaints appear down to:

i) a lack of communication/awareness of the current state of play regarding a fault;
ii) misdiagnosis or excessive part wear (in the case of the brakes), or worst still, opportunism by the dealer to charge for replacement parts when not needed.

You then need to tie this up to basically say that your experience of Honda ownership to date falls far short of your expectations, particularly as you've been inconvenienced both in terms of time and money.

You might also wish to have a look at something I posted a little while back (which failed to capture anyone's imagination ). However, it refers to the Three Joys of Honda (written by the company's founder) and outlines what is expected of Honda and its dealers.

Perhaps, you could close by asking if, in their opinion, the problems encountered and the service you've received to date meet the Three Joys criteria?

I'd also copy the letter to Honda UK for information (at present).

[Kpow99]

Thanks Jayt43, you are right, still a bit hot headed...lies are a bit strong

[valmiki]

Originally Posted by andy.stryker

Be careful, the audible warning is a high pitched squeel, just before you have no pads left to brake the car that is currently travelling at high speed!!!

i thought the audible warning would start by only sounding when you used the brakes, and as it got more worn down would then sound all the time

[DeanFYoung]

Should've said yes, just to see how long they spent looking up the part number on their system!!

[Kpow99]

Originally Posted by andy.stryker

Be careful, the audible warning is a high pitched squeel, just before you have no pads left to brake the car that is currently travelling at high speed!!!

I know that, that's what I told them about the rear and it was 100% worn, but shouldn't have happened at 18k miles.

But they tell me the front 20% and rear 15%, that's a surprise about the rear considering they only do between 20-30% of the braking that they have worn nearly as much as the front in about the same mileage.

[TTDegs]

Originally Posted by valmiki

i thought the audible warning would start by only sounding when you used the brakes, and as it got more worn down would then sound all the time

Valmiki - mine first started with the odd squeal a few weeks back. To the point where I thought I'd just got a bit of rust on the discs.
Then it went through a stage of squealing more often than not.
Then it pretty much stopped squealing.

moral - as soon as they start, check them out


PS - you heading for Newport on the 7th?

(sorry, quick foray into off topic there)

[Doubtingthomas]

Originally Posted by Kpow99

Thanks Jayt43, you are right, still a bit hot headed...lies are a bit strong

I am saddened to hear of the situation you find yourself in but I would echo jayt43's advice. I've run Hondas for many, many years and touch wood, I have not as yet experienced such service from a honda dealership. My local dealership is a family owned concern, maybe this helps, and the Service staff have been there for a long time. I hope the matter is resolved to your satisfaction quite quickly.