Brakes Brake wear

[valmiki]

Originally Posted by TTDegs

PS - you heading for Newport on the 7th?

sorry feller can't make it would have loved to though, just to see all the civs in one place!

[l-noel]

Originally Posted by Kpow99

Thanks Jayt43, you are right, still a bit hot headed...lies are a bit strong

I dont Agree... for me it's better to call a cat a cat

[HappyMan]

Originally Posted by Kpow99

Well since posting I've written my letter, it is still 1st draft but I'm so mad about this it has to be done, first to dealer principal and then on from there, quite long but bear with me on this



Since I have had ownership of the above car I have been a frequent customer of your after sales service department, so much so I now feel I have to write to you to get some explanation of the problems I have had with my car and the service I have received.

I appreciate that my car wasn’t purchased from your showroom, but was however, purchased from your dealer group, which is why I am starting with you as my first point of official contact.

If you care to look up the history of visits my car has had at your service department you might start to see some sort of pattern emerging, I think the best thing to do is list this visits a best I can and hope your staff have kept a detailed record. In no particular order as follows……

1)HFT system was not responding properly to voice commands and frequent complaints from people I was talking to that they couldn’t hear me properly. Visit to service resulted in “no fault found”. After some considerable research from my self with other owners and Honda I found that there was a general fault and fix and got a name of someone in technical at Honda UK that I could quote. Went back and your staff were able to contact Honda UK and got an official fix. 2 visits.

2)Front suspension was making a squeaking noise when going over speed bumps and had to drive very slowly over them. Brought the car in for check and road test. “No fault found”. Again did some research with several other Civic owners and after persistent noise I booked in again. Suspension was missing the bump stops and had to be replaced, booked in and replaced. 3 visits.

3)Front Pad at first service highlighted as needing replacement shortly, surprised at this considering the mileage I do on the motorway outside of normal congestion hours but took advice. Booked in and had replaced at 16k miles or there about. No excessive wear mentioned for rear pads. Note this information for later.

4)Noticed a slight metal on metal noise and booked in for check “No fault found”. Noise got worse very quickly so booked in again, rear pads had worn 100% and damaged the discs after 18k miles. Very surprised at this as rear brakes do about 20% of the work usually. Parts not in stock and had to leave car there, staff ready to take my money for the work. Went away and did some research again and called ***** ***** asking for this problem to be double checked as something is not right. Only 1 pad had worn 100% as it was not seated in the calliper properly, not picked up on the first service either. Had to wait 2 weeks without my car for replacement parts. Steve did a good job in getting hire car for me and Honda UK agreed to pay for all of it as it was a defect and inconvenience to myself. 3 visits.

5)Car due 25k mile service so booked in for today, mentioned when booking about a metal on metal noise coming from the brakes once they had warmed up a bit and was told a note would be made. Dropped car off this morning and mentioned again the noise and checked that a road test would be completed under investigation. Received a call this afternoon to say that the service was complete and that no fault was found. Paid my money and asked if road test was completed, “Yes sir it has and is usually with a 25k mile service” Problem here is that my trip computer had 157.8 miles when I left it off and 157.9 when I picked it up!!!!! 100 yards not much of a road test I think you would agree. Spoke to ***** ***** on service reception and didn’t have any idea that the test wasn’t completed or why it wasn’t. Asked if I’d like to book it in again. 2 Visits.

I think you would agree about a pattern emerging here of the number of times I have to come down in my precious time and wait around for things that should have been done first time.

Now back to point 3, this service highlighted that my front pads had worn 20%, nothing unusual about that, but that was after 9k miles from the first set being replaced. Now simple maths would say that would give me roughly 40k miles, give or take a few thousand, which is considerably more than the first set which had worn at 16k miles and a rear set at 18k miles. So at several visits down the line and £85 worse off for front pads you can now see there was something wrong, so how should I look at this?!?! Was I conned in to buying new pads? Was there mechanical service far below what I’m sure you and Honda UK would expect? Or was there something fundamentally wrong with the pads for them to have worn so quickly?

You can see now why I am showing my concern to you at a lack of service far below what I expected from someone holding Honda’s flag and how the “Power of dreams” has turned into a nightmare.

So you can see that I distrust what I have now been told in the past based on the fact that I have been lied to today about the road test on my car and that no fault was found, what else have I not been told the truth about??? More importantly the safety of my family and I as the main visits were related to brakes and suspension.

So what happens now? I’ll give you some time to get some information together to be able to respond to my concerns and see if there is a need to progress this further, also what you are prepared to do to satisfy me that my custom, my car and my family’s safety are safe in your hands.

Looking forward to your quick response.






There you go, did you read it all?

Very good letter and fair I think. I would agree with Jayt43 about changing the last couple of paragraphs but I think you are justified in your points and clearly make your thoughts known.

I hope the general manager reads it and acts upon it as it is a balanced, fair letter of complaint.

Good luck

[Kpow99]

Re-jigged the last couple of paragraphs and put in a better ending I think you'll agree....


Now back to point 3, this service highlighted that my front pads had worn 20%, nothing unusual about that, but that was after 9k miles from the first set being replaced. Now simple maths would say that would give me roughly 40k miles, give or take a few thousand, which is considerably more than the first set which had worn at 16k miles and a rear set at 18k miles. So at several visits down the line and £85 worse off for front pads you can now see there was something wrong, so how should I look at this?!?! Was I charged for replacement parts when not needed? Was there mechanical service below what I’m sure you and Honda UK would expect? Or was there something fundamentally wrong with the pads for them to have worn so quickly?

My experience of Honda ownership to date falls far short of my expectations, particularly as I’ve been inconvenienced both in terms of time and money, the “Power of dreams” has turned into a nightmare.

Finally I would like to point out that the service reception staff have always been polite and courteous, especially ***** *****, who went beyond when dealing with the rear brakes issue.




Think I'll get a better response if I end on a "it's not all bad" with a bit of praise

Well I need to go in today to get the service book stamped, as they forgot that so I'll drop off the letter then and wait and see. Oh and thx to Jayt43 for the line I used

[TTDegs]

goog re-jig

best of luck!

[TTDegs]

@ valmiki - no worries - catch ya next time

[Kpow99]

Got a call today from the General Manager, most apologetic about the issues, most important wanted to get my car back in ASAP to investigate, will pick my car up and leave off a car for me to use at my convenience. He said he will speak to all involved about the other issues and report back to me as soon as he can.

At least he's taken it seriously but to be honest after this I don't know whether I could go back to using them or not. On the one hand there is me the moaning customer and on the other will they always bend over backwards for me now??? Can I trust them do what what is required, I mean we have all heard stories about main dealers "Servicing" cars and charging for the lot but not changing sparks or filters. On that note my Dad got his car serviced last week, charged a couple of quid for screen wash, used the wipers on the way home and the washer bottle was empty

Further news will be posted soon

[Doubtingthomas]

Originally Posted by Kpow99

Got a call today from the General Manager, most apologetic about the issues, most important wanted to get my car back in ASAP to investigate, will pick my car up and leave off a car for me to use at my convenience. He said he will speak to all involved about the other issues and report back to me as soon as he can.

At least he's taken it seriously but to be honest after this I don't know whether I could go back to using them or not.
Further news will be posted soon

I feel you have got to allow the General Manager time to fully investigate your complaint. I, personally, would wish to discuss the whole matter with him in person following his investigation. You may wish to reflect on what he says prior to making a final decision. Only you, unfortunately, can make the decision as to your future intentions, but my gut feeling is that you will probably be treated with a little more respect by all, particularly if you see the GM personally. I sympathise with you. You should not be in this position but that is by the way. Stay calm, be courteous but stick to your guns. Good luck.

[Kpow99]

Originally Posted by Doubtingthomas

I feel you have got to allow the General Manager time to fully investigate your complaint. I, personally, would wish to discuss the whole matter with him in person following his investigation. You may wish to reflect on what he says prior to making a final decision. Only you, unfortunately, can make the decision as to your future intentions, but my gut feeling is that you will probably be treated with a little more respect by all, particularly if you see the GM personally. I sympathise with you. You should not be in this position but that is by the way. Stay calm, be courteous but stick to your guns. Good luck.

I didn't expect the GM to reply to all my concerns right away, that would be completely un-reasonable, I am a patient man and in my job very used to negotiating for a lot more than the price of a car....or a house for that matter

I'm a wolf in sheep's clothing really I called him today, picking the car up on Monday so have to wait til then to find out what's wrong.

[Kpow99]

Dealer had my car in today and the GM took it for a test drive himself, unfortunately as it was wet the noise probably won't show and it didn't. They stripped down the brakes front and rear and checked and re-fitted all OK no noise but no problem either.

As regards to the other issues, very apologetic at all the inconvenience caused and assured that I will see a difference in the future. Technical info not always available, he said they often get from un-official sources before they do from Honda. (here maybe?!?! think not)

As a gesture of goodwill he is refunding the cost of my 25k service (£320) and obviously any problems in the future his door will be open.

On a personal note, after these assurances I will go back and monitor the service I receive in the future, as far as my other concerns go he as no answers as excuses can't be made only that they have let me down.

Overall a happy bunny but.......I will be watching

[TTDegs]

sounds like a fair outcome kpow - nice one

[Doubtingthomas]

As a gesture of goodwill he is refunding the cost of my 25k service (£320) and obviously any problems in the future his door will be open.

On a personal note, after these assurances I will go back and monitor the service I receive in the future, as far as my other concerns go he as no answers as excuses can't be made only that they have let me down.

Overall a happy bunny but.......I will be watching[/quote]

Well done. Pleased for you.

[elisgriffiths]

Sorry to get an old post back up and running. Just had my third service. Third set of pads in as many services. Plus disks on the front. Also i have had to replace the front tires four times. That puts my average service at nigh on £750 a service...

I have changed dealers and have had fantastic service with the new ones. However the last set of front only did 6000 miles. I got the tracking checked at the last two services. I have also now had to have the front subframe replaced...

So having finally had enough and having the opportunity, i had a 70 mile plus trip down the M5 (from alton towers... which was ace). I stuck to 75mph on the cruise, got 50Mpg and did not have to brake until a service station, at which i used the gears and the handbrake to finally stop. The front drivers wheel was almost to hot to touch ( i am not joking) the passenger wheel was Very Warm.

Unless i am very much mistaken, this excessive heat would help the tires rid themselves of tread this quick, also if the pads are never fully clear the disk it would explain why they are wareing so quick...

I have always noticed a metallic rubbing sound from the fronts when coasting at low speed (even tried it engine off!).

The new dealer is very kindly looking into it but... even though the dealer noticed the front drivers side was binding slightly at the last service.

As said earlier i am no saint behind the wheel, but the car is just proving to expensive to run. Considering i am getting 50mpg i am not caning it either...

Any advice?...

[Doubtingthomas]

I am not a mechanic but I would have thought you should be able to get a lot more than 6000 miles out of a set of front tyres. There must be a reason why the tyres are wearing out prematurely. As a matter of interest, why was the front sub frame replaced?

[elisgriffiths]

same problem as some of the guys on here... plus no bump stops...

Please Any Ideas? Knock/Creak/Tap from Front!

at least thats fixed...

[elisgriffiths]

tyre history so far is as follows... (miles rounded because of memory (or lack of therin...)

Premacy for 11,500 miles on the front,
Mich SP2's for 10,000 miles
2 x Goodyear F1's 9,500 miles and then 6,000 miles
just put a set of Goodyear F1 Assymetric at 38,000 miles which incedently is the point at which the rear premacy's needed replacing (from factory)...

[andy.stryker]

One thing I did notice about Civic brakes is the very short amount of time before corrosion starts to appear on the disks. My brother in his Civic and me in an Avensis did the same journey, when we arrived at our destination I noticed that corrosion was already showing on my brothers back disks and the fronts started to show within an hour and a half, it was two days later before the Avensis showed anything.

The only thing that I can put this down to is the materials used in the Civic disks, they must contain a very poor soft metal content.

[christine]

I was informed at 12000 miles that my 1.8i needed new discs on the front and pads all round at a cost of £400, I was dismayed at this as not only do I drive like a granny, I am a granny, six times over.
My cynical other half wondered if the fact that I had paid just £500 for five years servicing had anything to do with the situation,he contacted Honda and they paid for the discs and fitting.
I have also had the wheels replaced once and these are being eaten and need replacing again before the warranty runs out in January.
I really like the car but I am a little disappointed in the quality of the brakes and the wheels. I have never had anything like this on the numerous other makes I have owned in my forty years of driving.

[Doubtingthomas]

Originally Posted by christine

I was informed at 12000 miles that my 1.8i needed new discs on the front and pads all round at a cost of £400, I was dismayed at this as not only do I drive like a granny, I am a granny, six times over.
My cynical other half wondered if the fact that I had paid just £500 for five years servicing had anything to do with the situation,he contacted Honda and they paid for the discs and fitting.
I have also had the wheels replaced once and these are being eaten and need replacing again before the warranty runs out in January.
I really like the car but I am a little disappointed in the quality of the brakes and the wheels. I have never had anything like this on the numerous other makes I have owned in my forty years of driving.

Welcome to the forum Well done your cynical other half! I am in the same position as you re the Honda Happiness Service scheme but I don't think there is any connection between having the scheme and the fact your discs needed replacing. I don't think you are the first Civic owner to have the front discs replaced at a seemingly early age or for the pads to be replaced all round.
I concede the alloys do need careful attention and they appear to be not as resilient to wear and tear as some other alloys. I hope you are able to resolve the matter to your satisfaction.

[Kremmen]

Not being at all critical to anyone here with premature wear but....I often follow cars, even on free flowing motorways, who are displaying a virtual constant display of brake lights because they are too close to the car in front.

I often whisper to myself "I bet those pads don't last long".

Town driving with the constant stop/start is also probably a pad eater.