Tyre Choice Help me like my Civic (tyre & suspension)

[Katman]

Originally Posted by singlelayer

I think I'm just about happy with my current driving position -just had another quick fiddle with the adjusters after my drive home. The g/f has disc problems with her lower back as well as dodgy hips and I recall her not being comfortable in the cinema the other day so I think it may just be her. I've had a look at that tyre review site too -mixed feelings on the ratings...depends if there's enough feedback on a particular tyre.

Hi Singlelayer
I read your thread and thought of myself.... I bought my Civic a few months ago after owning a BMW 3-Series. A bought the Civic even though I read reviews of the firm suspension etc. My main gripe is in relation to the poor quality plastics used inside the cabin leading to rattles etc which is related to the hard suspension....
Been to the dealer a number of times but have to make do with the car as they cannot seem to do anymore.
Two weeks ago I got two flat tyres and bought Bridgestone Turanza T001's (replacing ER300's) and I must say how impressive this tyres are.... road noise reduced.... softer ride.... mpg improvements by approx 5mpg.... great in wet and dry. Not seen if the they do in R18's as mine are only R16's but I really recommend them!
Blackcircles.com is worth looking at as a start

[singlelayer]

Originally Posted by Katman

Hi Singlelayer
I read your thread and thought of myself.... I bought my Civic a few months ago after owning a BMW 3-Series. A bought the Civic even though I read reviews of the firm suspension etc. My main gripe is in relation to the poor quality plastics used inside the cabin leading to rattles etc which is related to the hard suspension....
Been to the dealer a number of times but have to make do with the car as they cannot seem to do anymore.
Two weeks ago I got two flat tyres and bought Bridgestone Turanza T001's (replacing ER300's) and I must say how impressive this tyres are.... road noise reduced.... softer ride.... mpg improvements by approx 5mpg.... great in wet and dry. Not seen if the they do in R18's as mine are only R16's but I really recommend them!
Blackcircles.com is worth looking at as a start

Thanks for that Katman,

It's nice to know I'm not the only one. People have been asking me over the weekend if I'm starting to like the car and I think I am. What have learnt is how good BMW cars are and how much further the competition has to come, but I am starting to like the Civic. I'm not so impressed with the real world fuel economy though -I was hoping for, although not quite, the 63mpg as quoted, but I'm actually getting just under 40 -to add insult, I could've achieved a 40mpg equivalent by LPG converting the Beemer, but you live and learn! I will at some point be changing the tyres, but am loathed to spend anymore money (at least until the current ones have had it).

[Katman]

Hi Singlelayer

Glad you are starting to like the Civic - all in all it's a very good car apart from the few niggles. I guess nothing in life is 100% and as much as I loved my BMW I had more issues with that e.g. constant juddering at 30mph, electrics playing up, gear stick getting stuck etc than the rattles and clicking clutch I am experiencing with the Civic.

Is you car a petrol?- if so then 40 mpg is about right. A mate of mine had the 1.8L engine and he's also finding it hard to get to 40mpg. He's ususally pleased to average out at 35mpg.

I now have my audio set at volume 15 as a minimum for the creaking to be less apparent Just glad I bough those tyres otherwise I would have had to set the volume dial to 20

[singlelayer]

So...here I am sat in the BMW. I'm taking her to the valeters ready for my dad to use. I really didn't wanna get back in her after I got the Civic as it really has reminded how sound proof they are. Anyway, I'm just about cracking a smile now when I drive the Civic and I now appreciate these cars are worlds apart.

Unfortunately...I have a 2.2 diesel and I drive a lot of motorway, but also quite a bit in town too, even so I expected more than 39.4 mpg average -the whole reason I changed vehicle in the first place (it's still double the mileage but not really enough to warrant the change). Maybe I'll have to bite the bullet and stump up for quieter tyres sooner rather than later.

[coste1l]

i averaged 37mpg in mine but it would hit 50mpg on a run if i stayed at 60.....

[bodgerx]

Originally Posted by singlelayer

I have only owned my 2.2 EX for a handful of days and I'm not really happy I really like the look of the car and perhaps I had too high hopes for it. Over the Jubilee weekend I drove up, down and across the country and firstly can't seem to find a comfortable driving position, no matter how much I fiddle. Speaking of which, my other half (who told me to stop whinging about the car so much) did complain about the comfort or lack of with the front passenger seat. I have a height adjuster on the driver's side, but she seems quite low. Her butt is on the seat all the way to the back and her thighs then rise up and off the seat before her legs head vertically downwards from the knee to the floor which seems to meet with her feet all too soon (if any of that makes any sense) -like the whole set up is too low and as though she's really tall (which she isn't at 5' 5").

Anyway, I've come from a BMW 5-series M-Sport and therein may lie some of my gripes. The Civic feels a little unrefined and what irks me above all else is the noise inside the cabin. Others have said it's not that bad, but it sounds noisy to me and fatiguing with constant over-powering sound from the road -it feels like I'm in a tin box. Whatever, the car's here to stay and I'm looking for advice on the best/quietest tyres that I can buy (I'm running 18" alloys) and whilst I'm posting, I need some advice on suspension. As I expected before buying, the ride is hard and I'm looking to sort that out, as well as perhaps getting a drop in ride height purely for aesthetics. What set-up do you guys recommend?

Thanks in advance!

I am extremely suprised she finds the seating position too low coming from a BMW. I came from a E91 and with the Civic you feel as though you are sat too high (on the car, rather than in it, compared with the BMW).

Maybe the problem is that she is expecting to see the front of the bonnet, which you can with most BMWs due to the long, non-drop off nature of the bonnet. Unless you sit 6ft off the ground you are never going to see the stubby raked front of the Civic.

As far as refinement is concerned, although I found the noise insulation slightly better on the BMW, the ride quality on the run flats on the BMW was awful. A trade off I was prepared to make. I am suprised you find the ride hard, especially compared to the M-Sport setup on the 5. Did you remove the run flats?

The 18s are an option on the EX I think. You may get better results out of the standard 17s. Or even the 16s on the ES/SE....

The Civic is a cheaper car new, so you are going to get some come downs. Maybe an Accord would have been better...

[bodgerx]

Originally Posted by Katman

Hi Singlelayer
I read your thread and thought of myself.... I bought my Civic a few months ago after owning a BMW 3-Series. A bought the Civic even though I read reviews of the firm suspension etc. My main gripe is in relation to the poor quality plastics used inside the cabin leading to rattles etc which is related to the hard suspension....
Been to the dealer a number of times but have to make do with the car as they cannot seem to do anymore.
Two weeks ago I got two flat tyres and bought Bridgestone Turanza T001's (replacing ER300's) and I must say how impressive this tyres are.... road noise reduced.... softer ride.... mpg improvements by approx 5mpg.... great in wet and dry. Not seen if the they do in R18's as mine are only R16's but I really recommend them!
Blackcircles.com is worth looking at as a start

I recently got the T001s on the front. They do seem a little quieter. Always hard to compare, but they seem decent...

[singlelayer]

Originally Posted by bodgerx

I am extremely suprised she finds the seating position too low coming from a BMW. I came from a E91 and with the Civic you feel as though you are sat too high (on the car, rather than in it, compared with the BMW).

Maybe the problem is that she is expecting to see the front of the bonnet, which you can with most BMWs due to the long, non-drop off nature of the bonnet. Unless you sit 6ft off the ground you are never going to see the stubby raked front of the Civic.

As far as refinement is concerned, although I found the noise insulation slightly better on the BMW, the ride quality on the run flats on the BMW was awful. A trade off I was prepared to make. I am suprised you find the ride hard, especially compared to the M-Sport setup on the 5. Did you remove the run flats?

The 18s are an option on the EX I think. You may get better results out of the standard 17s. Or even the 16s on the ES/SE....

The Civic is a cheaper car new, so you are going to get some come downs. Maybe an Accord would have been better...

I have/had an E60 BMW with 19" but without run flats. Any which way, I'm all good now. Dummy is back in

[M1tch]

I've just had Eibach's fitted with a few other things and a set of Goodyear Asymetric 2's, what a difference, no knocking or harsh crashing when I'm over our poor roads.......

On a side note, I'm 42.8 for round about town driving, not been on a motorway to hit the highers ones but I'd be asking questions of I was only at 37 mpg and not using a heavy foot.....???

[singlelayer]

Originally Posted by M1tch

I've just had Eibach's fitted with a few other things and a set of Goodyear Asymetric 2's, what a difference, no knocking or harsh crashing when I'm over our poor roads.......

On a side note, I'm 42.8 for round about town driving, not been on a motorway to hit the highers ones but I'd be asking questions of I was only at 37 mpg and not using a heavy foot.....???

Hmm...the dealer's coming to pick her up on Thursday and lending me a CRZ whilst they sort some paintwork out, I may bring it up then. I've only done 1,300 miles so far but I reset everything when I got her and only averaged in the low forties for a short time before heading to the high 30s. I do crack on with my travelling, but by no means am I a boy-racer! I was hoping for maybe 50mpg as I had a battered old Carisma that managed almost 60+mpg a few years back!

[Katman]

Originally Posted by M1tch

I've just had Eibach's fitted with a few other things and a set of Goodyear Asymetric 2's, what a difference, no knocking or harsh crashing when I'm over our poor roads.......

On a side note, I'm 42.8 for round about town driving, not been on a motorway to hit the highers ones but I'd be asking questions of I was only at 37 mpg and not using a heavy foot.....???

I'm getting 47 mpg since changing to the T001's (on the fronts) - will match the back ones too once the remaining tread wears down in a month or two I should imagine. The only slight drawback I've notice today is when the temperature outside drops then some of the road noise through the tyre is heard but still a heck of a lot better than the previous ER300's

M1tch, how much does it cost to get the eibach's fitted? when I mentioned to the dealer about eibachs (as my knowledge is limited!) and whether they would help with my frustrations on the firm suspension I was told that it would make is even more firm as would give it a 'sport suspension feeling' and lowers the car..... now i am confused!!!
Is there a particular type of eibach springs that you can suggest?

[Fr0d]

Originally Posted by singlelayer

I have only owned my 2.2 EX for a handful of days and I'm not really happy I really like the look of the car and perhaps I had too high hopes for it. Over the Jubilee weekend I drove up, down and across the country and firstly can't seem to find a comfortable driving position, no matter how much I fiddle. Speaking of which, my other half (who told me to stop whinging about the car so much) did complain about the comfort or lack of with the front passenger seat. I have a height adjuster on the driver's side, but she seems quite low. Her butt is on the seat all the way to the back and her thighs then rise up and off the seat before her legs head vertically downwards from the knee to the floor which seems to meet with her feet all too soon (if any of that makes any sense) -like the whole set up is too low and as though she's really tall (which she isn't at 5' 5").

Anyway, I've come from a BMW 5-series M-Sport and therein may lie some of my gripes. The Civic feels a little unrefined and what irks me above all else is the noise inside the cabin. Others have said it's not that bad, but it sounds noisy to me and fatiguing with constant over-powering sound from the road -it feels like I'm in a tin box. Whatever, the car's here to stay and I'm looking for advice on the best/quietest tyres that I can buy (I'm running 18" alloys) and whilst I'm posting, I need some advice on suspension. As I expected before buying, the ride is hard and I'm looking to sort that out, as well as perhaps getting a drop in ride height purely for aesthetics. What set-up do you guys recommend?

Thanks in advance!

If anything, I'd say the driving position is too high for my liking (compared to my last car), even on the lowest settings. This may be due to the fuel tanks under the seats.

If you're serious about wanting to reduce NVH levels, read here: Sound isolation.

It may seem daunting, but the results are certainly worth the effort. I've done the whole car (including the bonnet, doors, floor, boot, wheel arches and all suspension turrets) with £40 worth of sound deadening and a free weekend. You'll end up removing pretty much all of the interior of the car.

I thought I did a thread somewhere on this, but I can't seem to find it

[Coordinator]

Same story for me in my 1.8i 5door Executive. The car is growing on me now but i would never ever buy this car new. I bought it in Germany with a lot of discount on it. I came out of a Lexus LS400 into this.

I like:
The looks, the dash, seats, spacy, big double boot, steering, panaramic roof, music system, all the extras and the tangerine colour.

I do not like:
Economy for such a light car with a 6 speed gearbox, noise inside cabin, rattles, suspension way to hard, overall building quality is very poor compared to a Golf.

The car was on rock-hard Michelin Pilot tyres, took them off and now on Viking Protech-2. The ride is much better, smooth and not crashy anymore on bad roads. Not as sharp as on the Michelins but so be it. I was in for Eibach too but i do not want to lower the car. Plus Eibach is not taking away the hard ride. The noise in the cabin is too high with normal driving. Above 125 km/hr its getting a bit tiring on the long run. 150 km/hr is ok above 4000 rpm but too many camera's in Holland. The new generation turbo engines are doing better. A Golf 1400 makes 2500 rpm at 135 km/hr, no noise at all. But a Golf is boring. The new Civic seems to be better but i cannot like it because of its looks. Too expensive compared to other cars in Holland. So hopefully things will get better in the future, maybe a 1600 turbo in the Civic for economy. My Civic will stay in the family anyway but my next will probably be the new Kia Cee'd in full spec and 1600 diesel. For 28000 euro all in plus 7 years warranty. The same specs on a Civic will get me up to 43000 euro, too much. (in Holland were you are a criminal if you buy a car)

I did solve the seating on my Civic: bought longer bolts and placed 2.0 cm spacers underneath the front of the seatingframes. The front of the seat is giving more support now. My wife is small, she moves the seat forward so her feet will not be on top of the fueltank. The average seat adjustment will get the rear of the seat up the front goes down. Stupid system on 99 % of all cars, only Volvo know how to do it.

[singlelayer]

Originally Posted by Coordinator

Same story for me in my 1.8i 5door Executive. The car is growing on me now but i would never ever buy this car new. I bought it in Germany with a lot of discount on it. I came out of a Lexus LS400 into this.

I like:
The looks, the dash, seats, spacy, big double boot, steering, panaramic roof, music system, all the extras and the tangerine colour.

I do not like:
Economy for such a light car with a 6 speed gearbox, noise inside cabin, rattles, suspension way to hard, overall building quality is very poor compared to a Golf.

The car was on rock-hard Michelin Pilot tyres, took them off and now on Viking Protech-2. The ride is much better, smooth and not crashy anymore on bad roads. Not as sharp as on the Michelins but so be it. I was in for Eibach too but i do not want to lower the car. Plus Eibach is not taking away the hard ride. The noise in the cabin is too high with normal driving. Above 125 km/hr its getting a bit tiring on the long run. 150 km/hr is ok above 4000 rpm but too many camera's in Holland. The new generation turbo engines are doing better. A Golf 1400 makes 2500 rpm at 135 km/hr, no noise at all. But a Golf is boring. The new Civic seems to be better but i cannot like it because of its looks. Too expensive compared to other cars in Holland. So hopefully things will get better in the future, maybe a 1600 turbo in the Civic for economy. My Civic will stay in the family anyway but my next will probably be the new Kia Cee'd in full spec and 1600 diesel. For 28000 euro all in plus 7 years warranty. The same specs on a Civic will get me up to 43000 euro, too much. (in Holland were you are a criminal if you buy a car)

I did solve the seating on my Civic: bought longer bolts and placed 2.0 cm spacers underneath the front of the seatingframes. The front of the seat is giving more support now. My wife is small, she moves the seat forward so her feet will not be on top of the fueltank. The average seat adjustment will get the rear of the seat up the front goes down. Stupid system on 99 % of all cars, only Volvo know how to do it.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one bothered by these small-ish gripes. My thoughts exactly on never buying the car new as I'd be very disappointed. I was nervous about pointing out the shortcomings on an enthusiasts forum, but at least I am not the only one. The noise levels inside the cabin of the Civic are unacceptable and it will be my number one priority with my next car (even my dad's L200 truck is quieter on the motorway)! On a slightly different note, I have a loaned CR-Z whilst my Civic's at the dealer and they suck. Over/under revving all the time, pointless rear seats, no gain in economy over any average diesel, tiny boot space (even with rear seats folded). Who is this car aimed at. Boy racers I don't think will go mad for the looks, nor be able to afford one as well as it having average performance. Older folk will, I think, find it too modern. I don't think even Honda know its target market. Still, better than having a Jazz for the last week!

[bodgerx]

Originally Posted by Coordinator

Same story for me in my 1.8i 5door Executive. The car is growing on me now but i would never ever buy this car new. I bought it in Germany with a lot of discount on it. I came out of a Lexus LS400 into this.

I like:
The looks, the dash, seats, spacy, big double boot, steering, panaramic roof, music system, all the extras and the tangerine colour.

I do not like:
Economy for such a light car with a 6 speed gearbox, noise inside cabin, rattles, suspension way to hard, overall building quality is very poor compared to a Golf.

Name a mid sized hatch with a petrol engine developing somewhere in the region of 140bhp that gets better economy.

VWs tend to have the semblance of quality where the driver sees and touches it i.e. The interior, but actual reliability and quality is no better or worse than other manufacturers.

Coming from a luxury end car (as the OP) your comments on refinement don't suprise me - Lexus' can be pretty soft.

[Woette]

Get yourself some 16 inch alloys and buy 4 brand new tyres of any brand and the noise problem will be significantly less. Worn tyres will always be noisy.
I have currently bought new alloys which make the car's track a bit wider (ET40 as to ET 55 stock i believe), combined with worn tyres the noise inside can be dramatic on some type of roads. I just turn up the music and there's no problem

Your mpg though seems pretty bad imo, you must be doing a lot of start/stop traffic and short runs to only get 39 from the diesel, otherwise i'd be checking the oil and tyre pressures.

[singlelayer]

Originally Posted by bodgerx

Name a mid sized hatch with a petrol engine developing somewhere in the region of 140bhp that gets better economy.

VWs tend to have the semblance of quality where the driver sees and touches it i.e. The interior, but actual reliability and quality is no better or worse than other manufacturers.

Coming from a luxury end car (as the OP) your comments on refinement don't suprise me - Lexus' can be pretty soft.

A BMW 118i does 48mpg with 167bhp if that counts? But then I suppose I would argue BMW's corner

[Forbidden8701]

I this it's abit unfair to compare a civic to a Lexus or BMW. To me a civic is about having bombproof reliability and low cost and being quite nippy around town. My FN2 ticks these boxes though I can see how you could be disappointed with some aspects of the civic coming out of an executive car.

[bodgerx]

Originally Posted by singlelayer

A BMW 118i does 48mpg with 167bhp if that counts? But then I suppose I would argue BMW's corner

That's the model that's just come out - haven't you bought an 8th gen? The old model weighed in at 143bhp - same engine that was in my 3 series 318. The official mpg figure was very optimistic on that.

Spec'd to the same equip levels, I'd wager that the 118 ends up significantly more expensive than your Civic - negating any mpg running cost advantage.

[Coordinator]

Do not get me wrong guys, i do like my 2009 FK2 Civic but it has its flaws. I do not and cannot compare it to my old Lexus LS400. Over here in Holland carexpenses are very high, we pay top on everthing. Road-tax and fuel are nearly the highest in the world. I stepped down do reduce my monthly costs and bought a secondhand Civic. As mentioned before i like lots of things on it but Honda UK should have payed more attention to details when the made the car. I owned lots of Honda's from Japan, last one was a 1997 Legend 3.5 V-6. This FK-2 is build in the UK and you see that parts are made locally. The building quality is basic. Over her in Holland my 1.8i Executive will cost you over 40000 euro. (we pay top-price on taxes) Even the new series will cost me if new a whopping 43000 euro in the spec is have mine 2009. That's a lot of money. My current Civic is already better build then the first series but compared to a VW Golf its still not good enough. I do not touch my dash-board but i look at fittings. When i close my window in the front-door the inner doorpanel moves about 1.5 cm when the window is at the top. You will not see this in a Golf at all. The fitting of the small tweeter in the door-frame is really bad. Its loose and does not fit at all. The carpet is very cheaply made and i already see damage in the back. The plastic trims on the wheelarches and doorsills are attached whith flimsy clips. I keep on changing them.
I am happy about the whole concept, i still enjoy the looks of the car. But i would never pay the price for a new Civic, ist not worth it compared to other cars. And i speak about the pricing in the Netherlands. The new one is better build but still much more expensive then a Focus or Kia. The Golf is even more expensive, they have lots of problems with engines now but i would love a Civic being build in the VW factory. Using their stuff to build the interior.
Speaking about economy, i get with carefull driving about 37-40 mpg max. Same as my 1996 Accord 2.0 i automatic. I did expect better mpg for such a light car with a V-Tec engine. I drive lots of rental cars now and a 1400 TSI Golf will give me easy 45 plus MPG, nearly no noise and smooth engine. But these engines blow up due to chain problems. There is always a problem. Thats not an issue with Honda, good service and they go on forever. So please do not get me wrong, i like driving my Civic but only second-hand and for a good price in Germany. But my next will be a Kia Cee'd for sure. Look inside the new one, you will be amazed how good these cars are build. So Honda step up and you will sell more cars.