Winter Do tyres change cause any damage to alloys?

Vider · 24th September 2007, 22:50

Hi! I have a question, which I couldn’t find an answer to in other threads. I've just bought 4 new winter tyres Avon CR85 205/55 R16 91H and was wondering whether can I fit them on my existing 16” alloy wheels or better is to buy a new set of steel wheels, as I don't have enough money for new alloys now? In that second case, what would be the price of the steel wheels? Anyone has done it? Which would be the cheapest option?
My worry is I don’t want my alloys or either my tyres to get damaged. Anyone can help?

cylon2007 · 25th September 2007, 08:42

If the fitter doing the tyre change knows what he is doing and the equipment is in good nick there shouldn't be any damage to the wheels. As you are in the UK (Worcestershire) do you really think it's neccessary to have different tyres for winter? I've never changed tyres for winter on any car or bike I've ever owned.

Pottsy · 25th September 2007, 09:21

I would try to find some old steelies - ebay maybe? Using the existing alloys is fine, just a bore have to swap the tyres around twice a year.

cylon,

Cars in the UK are fitted with summer tyres, which are not much use below 5C. The crossover point is around 8C (so winter tyres work better below 8C). But in the UK we are so tight that nearly everyone just tries to make do with summer tyres in winter and we all wonder why we crash so much over the winter months.

On a couple of cars I've bought there has been a huge warning in the handbook about this - saying something to the effect of "this car is fitted with summer tyres, which must not be used when the temperature drops below xC". The Civic manual just tells us to fit winter tyres when it gets "snowy".

The problem with summer tyres not working well becomes more acute with performance tyres. Most normal cars are fitted with normal tyres - the Civ however gets high performance summer tyres (MPS2 etc) which can be very tricky in the cold. Beware!

Pottsy · 25th September 2007, 09:29

Here's a useful link telling UK folk how dodgy it is driving around in winter on summer tyres:

Tyres-Online: Winter Tyres

winter3a.jpg

winter4a.jpg

PS I always thought the crossover was 8C, but they talk about 7C. I learn every day!!

cylon2007 · 25th September 2007, 10:06

I stand corrected, however I've been driving for 26 years now and have never changed tyres for winter and have not crashed due to poor grip in winter either it's down to driving to the conditions and the vehicle you have. We really don't get long enough spells of severe weather in the country to warrant having a spare set of wheels and tryres that may get used for a week, IMHO.

BTW I have been using the same MPS2 tyres on my Passat for the past 3 years with no obvious problems in cold weather and I do as many miles in winter as summer.

Now on the bike , for track use, is a different matter where I have different tyres for when it's wet but then again it' s easy to fall off a bike whereas falling off a car is damn near impossible

Bungle · 25th September 2007, 13:59

Personally, I don't think winter tyres are worth the cost in England's climate.
If you drive sensibly and to the conditions, aware that you have less traction, you will have absolutley no problem when the temperature drops, IMHO.

The one or two days a year we may get a dusting of white stuff does not seem enough to warrant the purchase, storage and fitting of 2 sets of tyres.

Pottsy · 25th September 2007, 18:04

Bungle - of course you will be fine if you drive accordingly, but it's nice to have all that extra margin. Bit like having VSA and ABS and airbags, don't drive to use them - but better that they are there.

Remember it doesn't need snow to make them worthwhile - these are low temperature tyres, not snow tyres. According to the graph above, they are best fitted for about 4 months of the year.

I've only done it with one car, and it was great. Cost me next to nothing (found some used steel wheels that fitted) remembering that while you are wearing down the winter tyres the summer ones are not being worn. And the grip and stopping power in the cold months was just amazing compared to the summer tyres.

robbo51 · 25th September 2007, 18:41

I agree with Pottsy.
Winter tyres should be used just like our Continental cousins do. It makes a lot of sense. Ok we dont get much snow any more but we still get frosts dont we??
It should be mandatory

Pottsy · 25th September 2007, 19:33

All it needs is a temperature below 7C - no need even for a frost!

You know how a roundabout on a wet winter's morning is really slippery? Well it's not, it's your tyres failing to work properly.

In Germany you can have an otherwise valid insurance claim denied if your car is on the wrong tyres....

Bungle · 25th September 2007, 19:38

But they are ony any better once the temperature gets to 5 degrees or below. During winter days, it still is usually above 5, more like 7 or 8. How often do we get daytime temperatures <5? To be honest, less often than not.
I just looked on the Met Office's climate chart, and the average temperatures for the south of England for Jan and Feb are well above 5. So more often than not, the summer tyres will be better than the winter ones, during the coldest 2 months of the year. Sorry, I'm still not convinced!

Only if you live in the norther half of the UK will they be any good for you, there the average temperatures are below 5.

I have no doubt that the winter tyres are better on a freezing road, but we have such mild winters here! I cannot justify owning 2 complete sets of tyres per car, and storing the winters for the 10 month a year when they will be useless.

Vider · 25th September 2007, 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by cylon2007

If the fitter doing the tyre change knows what he is doing and the equipment is in good nick there shouldn't be any damage to the wheels. As you are in the UK (Worcestershire) do you really think it's neccessary to have different tyres for winter? I've never changed tyres for winter on any car or bike I've ever owned.

The reason why I want to change my tyres is I'm going to do a lot of millage this winter in Europe, ie. next week I'm going for a eurotrip (Bern, Monako, Milan, Innsbruck, Prague, Berlin) (there is another thread about that), so I will definitely need winter tyres to drive through Alps. It's gonna be a bit weird as one day I will be in Monako (25C) and two days after in Innsbruck (-3C + snow). However I should be better on winter tyres than summer, shouldn't I?
Anyway my concern is whether should I put the winter tyres on my existing alloys or better buy some cheap steel wheels on ebay? Next time I will change them over again will be some time in February, so twice a year tyre change it's not an issue. Just make me a bit worry whether my alloys will be ok (think they should) and also what about the HTRK (Honda Tyre Repair Kit), will this work on a new tyres with the same alloys?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pottsy

Cars in the UK are fitted with summer tyres, which are not much use below 5C. The crossover point is around 8C (so winter tyres work better below 8C). But in the UK we are so tight that nearly everyone just tries to make do with summer tyres in winter and we all wonder why we crash so much over the winter months.

The problem with summer tyres not working well becomes more acute with performance tyres. Most normal cars are fitted with normal tyres - the Civ however gets high performance summer tyres (MPS2 etc) which can be very tricky in the cold. Beware!

Good point Pottsy!

Pottsy · 25th September 2007, 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bungle

But they are ony any better once the temperature gets to 5 degrees or below. During winter days, it still is usually above 5, more like 7 or 8.

Bungle, winter tyres are better than summer tyres at 7 or 8C.

According to the average temp chart (admittedly produced by Continental) that covers more than 4 months for England. You want to try winter tyres - they really are very good, especially on a powerful car.

alanwalne · 25th September 2007, 21:46

The one problem with have winter tyres in the uk is that as winter tyres are not the norm then all the roads are still blocked by the numpties who make no allowances for winter driving. As an aside, it could be dangerous to the neck having a vastly better stopping distance than the norm!!

re putting tyres on alloys, my cousin lives in Switzerland and their tyre dealer swaps the tyres twice a year ontothir Audi (non quattro!!!) alloys and charges a minimalstorage cost for the tyres not on the car at the time and they have never mentioned anything about damage.

Vider · 25th September 2007, 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanwalne

re putting tyres on alloys, my cousin lives in Switzerland and their tyre dealer swaps the tyres twice a year ontothir Audi (non quattro!!!) alloys and charges a minimalstorage cost for the tyres not on the car at the time and they have never mentioned anything about damage.

thanks, this cleared my doubts
btw the tread has become more interesting than I thought

Munro · 28th September 2007, 10:33

When I worked in Bergen Norway winter tyres were compulsory for several months of the year. The winter tyres were studded to grip on the icy roads. This worked well but the disadvantage was the roads get worn out quickly - a lot of the busy roads had channels from winter tyre erosion.

GHGH · 22nd October 2007, 09:46

Sorry for catching this thread a bit late, but I have some opinions on the topic.
OK that the softer rubber mix in winter tyres gives better grip in cold conditions, also well above freezing.
I want to point out that there is more than one type studless tyres.
We have the type we call "all-year tyres" which has softer rubber mix but a tyre pattern not differing much from summer tyres.
The winter tyres one we use here got a tyre pattern with a very high number of sipings in order to get some grip on ice. The downside of this cut-trough pattern is a soft and swampyish behaviour on tarmac (compared to summer tyres) even if its cold.
Haven't got the numbers, but I very much doubt that my winter tyres has a shorter braking distance than my summer tyres even at +3C.

24th September 2007, 22:50	#1 (permalink)
Vider Supporter Valve Cap Join Date: 4th September 2007 Location: PL, UK Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Do tyres change cause any damage to alloys? Hi! I have a question, which I couldn’t find an answer to in other threads. I've just bought 4 new winter tyres Avon CR85 205/55 R16 91H and was wondering whether can I fit them on my existing 16” alloy wheels or better is to buy a new set of steel wheels, as I don't have enough money for new alloys now? In that second case, what would be the price of the steel wheels? Anyone has done it? Which would be the cheapest option? My worry is I don’t want my alloys or either my tyres to get damaged. Anyone can help?

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This thread is about: Do tyres change cause any damage to alloys?, it's in Wheels, Tyres, Suspension and Brakes at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; Hi! I have a question, which I couldn’t find an answer to in other threads. I've just bought 4 new winter tyres Avon CR85 205/55 ...

25th September 2007, 08:42	#2 (permalink)
cylon2007 Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 14th April 2007 Location: South Manchester/North Cheshire Posts: 524 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader: (0)	If the fitter doing the tyre change knows what he is doing and the equipment is in good nick there shouldn't be any damage to the wheels. As you are in the UK (Worcestershire) do you really think it's neccessary to have different tyres for winter? I've never changed tyres for winter on any car or bike I've ever owned.

25th September 2007, 09:21	#3 (permalink)
Pottsy Administrator Civinfo master Join Date: 10th April 2006 Location: Leics Posts: 5,481 Thanks: 22 Thanked 167 Times in 98 Posts iTrader: (0)	I would try to find some old steelies - ebay maybe? Using the existing alloys is fine, just a bore have to swap the tyres around twice a year. cylon, Cars in the UK are fitted with summer tyres, which are not much use below 5C. The crossover point is around 8C (so winter tyres work better below 8C). But in the UK we are so tight that nearly everyone just tries to make do with summer tyres in winter and we all wonder why we crash so much over the winter months. On a couple of cars I've bought there has been a huge warning in the handbook about this - saying something to the effect of "this car is fitted with summer tyres, which must not be used when the temperature drops below xC". The Civic manual just tells us to fit winter tyres when it gets "snowy". The problem with summer tyres not working well becomes more acute with performance tyres. Most normal cars are fitted with normal tyres - the Civ however gets high performance summer tyres (MPS2 etc) which can be very tricky in the cold. Beware!

25th September 2007, 09:29	#4 (permalink)
Pottsy Administrator Civinfo master Join Date: 10th April 2006 Location: Leics Posts: 5,481 Thanks: 22 Thanked 167 Times in 98 Posts iTrader: (0)	Here's a useful link telling UK folk how dodgy it is driving around in winter on summer tyres: Tyres-Online: Winter Tyres winter3a.jpg winter4a.jpg PS I always thought the crossover was 8C, but they talk about 7C. I learn every day!!

25th September 2007, 10:06	#5 (permalink)
cylon2007 Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 14th April 2007 Location: South Manchester/North Cheshire Posts: 524 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader: (0)	I stand corrected, however I've been driving for 26 years now and have never changed tyres for winter and have not crashed due to poor grip in winter either it's down to driving to the conditions and the vehicle you have. We really don't get long enough spells of severe weather in the country to warrant having a spare set of wheels and tryres that may get used for a week, IMHO. BTW I have been using the same MPS2 tyres on my Passat for the past 3 years with no obvious problems in cold weather and I do as many miles in winter as summer. Now on the bike , for track use, is a different matter where I have different tyres for when it's wet but then again it' s easy to fall off a bike whereas falling off a car is damn near impossible

25th September 2007, 13:59	#6 (permalink)
Bungle Rocketship door handle Join Date: 3rd July 2006 Location: SE London/Kent Posts: 1,220 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Personally, I don't think winter tyres are worth the cost in England's climate. If you drive sensibly and to the conditions, aware that you have less traction, you will have absolutley no problem when the temperature drops, IMHO. The one or two days a year we may get a dusting of white stuff does not seem enough to warrant the purchase, storage and fitting of 2 sets of tyres.

25th September 2007, 18:04	#7 (permalink)
Pottsy Administrator Civinfo master Join Date: 10th April 2006 Location: Leics Posts: 5,481 Thanks: 22 Thanked 167 Times in 98 Posts iTrader: (0)	Bungle - of course you will be fine if you drive accordingly, but it's nice to have all that extra margin. Bit like having VSA and ABS and airbags, don't drive to use them - but better that they are there. Remember it doesn't need snow to make them worthwhile - these are low temperature tyres, not snow tyres. According to the graph above, they are best fitted for about 4 months of the year. I've only done it with one car, and it was great. Cost me next to nothing (found some used steel wheels that fitted) remembering that while you are wearing down the winter tyres the summer ones are not being worn. And the grip and stopping power in the cold months was just amazing compared to the summer tyres.

25th September 2007, 18:41	#8 (permalink)
robbo51 It wasn’t me! Civinfo guru Join Date: 1st July 2007 Location: Bingley, W.Yorks Posts: 3,429 Thanks: 57 Thanked 54 Times in 51 Posts iTrader: (0)	I agree with Pottsy. Winter tyres should be used just like our Continental cousins do. It makes a lot of sense. Ok we dont get much snow any more but we still get frosts dont we?? It should be mandatory

25th September 2007, 19:33	#9 (permalink)
Pottsy Administrator Civinfo master Join Date: 10th April 2006 Location: Leics Posts: 5,481 Thanks: 22 Thanked 167 Times in 98 Posts iTrader: (0)	All it needs is a temperature below 7C - no need even for a frost! You know how a roundabout on a wet winter's morning is really slippery? Well it's not, it's your tyres failing to work properly. In Germany you can have an otherwise valid insurance claim denied if your car is on the wrong tyres....

25th September 2007, 19:38	#10 (permalink)
Bungle Rocketship door handle Join Date: 3rd July 2006 Location: SE London/Kent Posts: 1,220 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	But they are ony any better once the temperature gets to 5 degrees or below. During winter days, it still is usually above 5, more like 7 or 8. How often do we get daytime temperatures <5? To be honest, less often than not. I just looked on the Met Office's climate chart, and the average temperatures for the south of England for Jan and Feb are well above 5. So more often than not, the summer tyres will be better than the winter ones, during the coldest 2 months of the year. Sorry, I'm still not convinced! Only if you live in the norther half of the UK will they be any good for you, there the average temperatures are below 5. I have no doubt that the winter tyres are better on a freezing road, but we have such mild winters here! I cannot justify owning 2 complete sets of tyres per car, and storing the winters for the 10 month a year when they will be useless.

25th September 2007, 21:46	#13 (permalink)
alanwalne Who needs a 4x4?? Rocketship door handle Join Date: 11th June 2007 Location: Kent Posts: 1,370 Thanks: 13 Thanked 15 Times in 15 Posts iTrader: (0)	The one problem with have winter tyres in the uk is that as winter tyres are not the norm then all the roads are still blocked by the numpties who make no allowances for winter driving. As an aside, it could be dangerous to the neck having a vastly better stopping distance than the norm!! re putting tyres on alloys, my cousin lives in Switzerland and their tyre dealer swaps the tyres twice a year ontothir Audi (non quattro!!!) alloys and charges a minimalstorage cost for the tyres not on the car at the time and they have never mentioned anything about damage.

28th September 2007, 10:33	#15 (permalink)
Munro Supporter Rocketship door handle Join Date: 10th August 2007 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,110 Thanks: 25 Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts iTrader: (0)	When I worked in Bergen Norway winter tyres were compulsory for several months of the year. The winter tyres were studded to grip on the icy roads. This worked well but the disadvantage was the roads get worn out quickly - a lot of the busy roads had channels from winter tyre erosion.

22nd October 2007, 09:46	#16 (permalink)
GHGH Supporter Rocketship door handle Join Date: 13th March 2007 Location: Trondheim, Norway Posts: 1,026 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	Sorry for catching this thread a bit late, but I have some opinions on the topic. OK that the softer rubber mix in winter tyres gives better grip in cold conditions, also well above freezing. I want to point out that there is more than one type studless tyres. We have the type we call "all-year tyres" which has softer rubber mix but a tyre pattern not differing much from summer tyres. The winter tyres one we use here got a tyre pattern with a very high number of sipings in order to get some grip on ice. The downside of this cut-trough pattern is a soft and swampyish behaviour on tarmac (compared to summer tyres) even if its cold. Haven't got the numbers, but I very much doubt that my winter tyres has a shorter braking distance than my summer tyres even at +3C.