Electrics Warranty invalidated thanks to the AA - Civinfo
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 22nd April 2010, 06:43 Thread Starter
 
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Warranty invalidated thanks to the AA

Hey folks, wonder if you could sanity check this for me?

Further to the message I left, as I didnt want to drive the car I called Honda Happiness who arranged for the AA to come and look. He was with the car for about an hour, running diagnostics, and came up with the following error codes:

p0219 engine over rev
p1704 clutch pedal switch
p2503 engine oil levl

Note, I first noticed the PGM-FI error when getting in my car after work, and it came on before the engine actually started. Driving to work, there was no error.

The AA man, reset all the warnings with the exception of the clutch error which cannot be reset apparently. But, he wrote them down and presented it to Honda.

Honda now tell me my warranty for the engine and gearbox has been invalidated!!!!!!! I am astounded, as I have never overrevved the car, or missed a gear changing down.

What on earth do I do now? Interestingly, the oil error was resolved by them downloading a software update, as it was a bug. As I have NEVER overrevved the engine, I think this error must be incorrect. They reckon it could have been in the system, and just 'decided' to come on. The car runs absolutely fine, there is no noticeable loss in power (although I am now reluctant to use full torque in case there is some damage).

I believe this is clearly an error with the error, but frustrated Honda can invalidate the warranty on something that software is saying, and in the same breath apply a software update to fix a bug with another erroneous error!!! They are going on the what the AA man said, and havent actually seen this error themselves, thanks to the AA man, he reset all the messages and has invalidated the warranty for me. nice one.

any advice?
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 22nd April 2010, 07:59
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The AA man simply reported( this is something that is done as part of all Honda Care call outs) what he found and reset but it is Honda who have invalidated your warranty so your dispute is with them not the guy who was simply doing his job. Take it up with Honda UK but try not to blame the AA guy as he did not cause the error codes he just reported what the car was telling him.
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 22nd April 2010, 17:37 Thread Starter
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sorry didnt meant to complain, he was a really nice man. But reseting the code, so honda have nothing to go on.. I'd have thought that would have been qiute sensible for anyone with a modicum of intelligence to leave. I've not seen it, Honda havent seen it, just the AA man and it could be quite easy to write down a 1 so it looks like a 7, etc etc so yes, he is guilty of invalidating my warranty, how do I know he wrote downt he code correctly?

What I also find quite absurd is Honda failing to included the date and time when the error was generated. That would be easy to include, but they dont and I wonder why?

honda tell me that code could have been lurking in the system for a long time, and decide to just 'pop up' when it feels like it.

I've had the car 4 months, but of course its bound to have occurred when I was driving it. Now I'm stuck witha car that Honda say could blow at any time. great. I bought a car form honda for peace of mind, now because of an alleged error I'm guilty of drving my car recklessly. software is notoriously unreliable, hence the millions of softwrae updates we have to apply to our computers (and cars every year),
yours, bitter and twisted and 11k worse off.

Last edited by mumraa; 22nd April 2010 at 17:55.
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 22nd April 2010, 17:59
 
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Honda invented the engine over rev code you talk about because people would thrash their cars knowing that they have a warranty if they blow up the engine so this code has been introduced so that they can prove what you were driving like. Not saying it was you but unfortunetely at some point your car has been thrashed. The AA guy should probably have left that one on there because Honda's computer can tell you exactly what speed, rpm and everything that was going on with the car at that time. Hope you resolve this issue. I just wanted to explain there actions to you.
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 22nd April 2010, 18:45 Thread Starter
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there is no reason for me to lie on this forum. the fact is I havent thrashed the car, and never missed a gear. that warning light was absent when I drove to work, but came on before I even started the engine. I know I have I have not abused that car. I was preparing myself to buy a CRV in 18 months, not a chance now.

I cannot believe that a warranty can legally be based on a software error message. My own concience tells me I've done absolutely nothing here, that over rev must have occured while I was sitting at my desk!!

parted my 11k in cash for peace of mind I was buying a reliable car. If it were so reliable, then the date and time along with revs at the time the fault was generated, would be recorded, that would prove it categorically.

Was preparing to buy a new CRV in 18 months, not a chance now. no way. since I've had this car, its had a clutch replaced, a folding mirror (which I paid for myself because I just couldnt be bothered to argue for the sake of 220), and now my warranty invalidated on a software error, which I know is not my fault.

thanks for letting me let off some steam here, but if you can just imagine for a moment, I am actually telling the truth, you may understand my fury.


end rant.
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 22nd April 2010, 18:52 Thread Starter
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by the way, the engine runs absolutely fine, no change in sound,idle, power loss or anything. If the engine had been thrashed, and the warning came on then I'd at least expect some signs of damage? But there is no sign.

I put it that Honda should prove the reliability of that error message? As a technical architect, I know first hand how unreliable software can be. That is why we apply softwrae updates, and service packs so frequently.

ahhh, its good to have a right old whinge.
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 23rd April 2010, 13:39
 
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I dont understand this. How can you over rev the car anyway as the rev limiter will prevent it
Rather worrying if it is as how many of us have hit the rev limiter a few times especially Type-R or Type-S owners. If an error code records long term use of the rev limiter ie sitting on it round a race track for extended periods then I can see Honda having a point perhaps.Or if the oil warning light is on and the car driven any distance.
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 23rd April 2010, 13:42
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Originally Posted by PWOOD View Post
I dont understand this. How can you over rev the car anyway as the rev limiter will prevent it
If a gear is mis-shifted then the engine can be mechanically forced to spin at a high rpm. The limiter won't work in this situation.
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 23rd April 2010, 14:04
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If a gear is mis-shifted then the engine can be mechanically forced to spin at a high rpm. The limiter won't work in this situation.
Yep this is called buzzing the engine and can do serious long term damage which is why Honda cancel the warranty on engines that have been buzzed.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 23rd April 2010, 14:30
 
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so redline in 2nd and miss 3rd whilst thinking you have engaged 3rd therefore flooring the throttle. Is that what you mean by buzzing if not could you give an example as the only other example I can think of is forced shifting that the magazine road testers do to get those impossible 0-60 times.
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 23rd April 2010, 14:31 Thread Starter
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I;ve been doing some research on this. Honda will have to prove that there is no electrical fault with the engine electrics before making the assumption that I have 'buzzed' my engine. In particular, as there is no sign of any damage to the engine, this supports my claim that the error code is wrong and doesnt reconcile with the message it is stating.

I'll be writing a letter to Honda UK demanding they prove there is no electrical fault or engine damage before making the (incorrect) assumption that I have damaged the engine and invalidating the warranty, and I'll refer my complaint to trading standards if they refuse to cooperate.

Absolute ridiculous to base a warranty on an error code. How many times has your computer at home gone wrong? How many instances are there of electrical faults in cars? Are Honda that confident to say their engine over rev code is infallible? I'm quite looking forward to this now.
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 23rd April 2010, 14:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PWOOD View Post
so redline in 2nd and miss 3rd whilst thinking you have engaged 3rd therefore flooring the throttle. Is that what you mean by buzzing if not could you give an example as the only other example I can think of is forced shifting that the magazine road testers do to get those impossible 0-60 times.
It more likely that an engine can be buzzed on a downchange at high revs such as 3rd to 2nd.
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 23rd April 2010, 15:11
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Originally Posted by mumraa View Post
there is no reason for me to lie on this forum. the fact is I havent thrashed the car, and never missed a gear. that warning light was absent when I drove to work, but came on before I even started the engine. I know I have I have not abused that car. I was preparing myself to buy a CRV in 18 months, not a chance now.

I cannot believe that a warranty can legally be based on a software error message. My own concience tells me I've done absolutely nothing here, that over rev must have occured while I was sitting at my desk!!

parted my 11k in cash for peace of mind I was buying a reliable car. If it were so reliable, then the date and time along with revs at the time the fault was generated, would be recorded, that would prove it categorically.

Was preparing to buy a new CRV in 18 months, not a chance now. no way. since I've had this car, its had a clutch replaced, a folding mirror (which I paid for myself because I just couldnt be bothered to argue for the sake of 220), and now my warranty invalidated on a software error, which I know is not my fault.

thanks for letting me let off some steam here, but if you can just imagine for a moment, I am actually telling the truth, you may understand my fury.


end rant.
Was this bought used and therefore might have been a previous owner ?
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 23rd April 2010, 15:19
 
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Originally Posted by mrh339 View Post
It more likely that an engine can be buzzed on a downchange at high revs such as 3rd to 2nd.
That makes sense as rev limiter would not be able to work in that situation. Not an easy thing to due given how obstructive 2nd gear can be on the 1.8.

Sorry OP went off topic a bit. Trading Standards should be your next move.
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 23rd April 2010, 16:03 Thread Starter
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Yup, it was bought used, with the extended Honda warranty. Sorry for my ranting and raving, I was just so hacked off of being accused of mistreating my car and losing my warranty for no fault of my own. And very annoyed the AA man reset the error codes so there is no evidence at all to go on.
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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 23rd April 2010, 17:50
 
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Have Honda stated how much it will cost to get repired?
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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 24th April 2010, 07:45 Thread Starter
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Honda told me that the only way I can have peace of mind is to replace the engine and gearbox!!! laughable. They have no empathy at all, imagine how I feel, I bought a car in good faith from a Honda main dealer for peace of mind. (I came out of my company car scheme this year). Four months into ownership, this happens. It's such a shame because I love the looks and drive of the car, but honestly, I wish I stayed in my car scheme now.

Note, the engine sounds and drives exactly as it did when I bought the car, super smooth, and torquey. Fuel consumption is 49mpg, oil consumption is the same. there is no difference at all, apart from that 'alleged' over rev code, and a few other faults that appeared. One of which is the clutch pedal switch, it is going back to Honda on tuesday for that to be fixed, at my cost now. (had a new clutch fitted under warranty a few months back).

Last edited by mumraa; 24th April 2010 at 07:48.
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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 24th April 2010, 09:06
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Re: Warranty invalidated thanks to the AA

Quote:
Originally Posted by mumraa
Honda told me that the only way I can have peace of mind is to replace the engine and gearbox!!! laughable. They have no empathy at all, imagine how I feel, I bought a car in good faith from a Honda main dealer for peace of mind. (I came out of my company car scheme this year). Four months into ownership, this happens. It's such a shame because I love the looks and drive of the car, but honestly, I wish I stayed in my car scheme now.

Note, the engine sounds and drives exactly as it did when I bought the car, super smooth, and torquey. Fuel consumption is 49mpg, oil consumption is the same. there is no difference at all, apart from that 'alleged' over rev code, and a few other faults that appeared. One of which is the clutch pedal switch, it is going back to Honda on tuesday for that to be fixed, at my cost now. (had a new clutch fitted under warranty a few months back).
Was your intention to sell anytime soon? Cos that's what I would do. I don't think I would have the bottle to sell privately and not tell them about this problem. A dealer on the other hand...
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 29th April 2010, 17:37
 
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How easy is to clear the error codes then especialy the overrev? Do you need special equipment?
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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 30th April 2010, 08:14
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can you just go to another honda dealer. i would have kicked up a fuss if i had to pay for any warranty issue.

also why do you have to pay for the clutch switch work? how would over revving your engine damage the clutch switch.

i think if you pay for anything here you are throwing money down the drain.

my dealer seems to fight my case for warranty work with hondauk as essentially they are just either being paid by me or honda and want my business so prefer it if i dont pay so i keep coming back.
switch dealer or speak to someone high up at your dealership
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