Engine Randomly entering limp mode - *No Check Engine or Error Codes!* - Civinfo
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 28th March 2018, 13:32 Thread Starter
 
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Randomly entering limp mode - *No Check Engine or Error Codes!*

Hi everyone! I'm excited to say this is my first post of many on the forums! Not so excited to say, I have a doozy of a problem on my 180k miles 2008 2.2 CDTi...

The old girl has been slowly decreasing in fuel economy - down to low 40's on the motorway from the low 50's a few thousand miles ago. It also began sputtering/lurching slightly and hesitating slightly on acceleration. This happens only on occasionally and seemingly inconsistently. After hitting a pothole a few weeks back before a half hour drive, my car went into limp mode on the return journey. Very slow acceleration, flooring the pedal barely goes over 2k revs, struggling severely on hills and impossible to get it over about 40mph. I pulled over and reset the inertia switch, which seemed to fix it, but this has happened a couple times since then.

The car runs fine for fairly large distances, goes into limp mode, then begins working fine again after stopping the engine for a bit. The strange thing is during all this, I have NO check engine light, and NO error codes on my OBDII scanner! I'm looking to borrow someone else's to check that it's not my scanner being bad.

So far, all I've already done is an oil change and changed the air filter to no effect. My current thoughts are:
1- The fuel filter may be clogged, and perhaps the bump loosened some carbon. I'll change the fuel filter, fill it with seafoam before re-installing and give it a good running to see if that clears things up. I doubt it is the fuel pump, as the issues are so inconsistent.
2- Perhaps the EGR valve needs cleaning. I read a very similar thread where it was an EGR valve issue, however, the lack of a check engine light in my case seems very odd.
3- Issues with the MAF could cause lurching and hesitation. Would this not cause more consistent faults? And the MAF would surely trigger a check engine light.

Beyond this, I'm not sure what else it could be or what I should do (this is relatively new to me). Has anyone else had similar issues? What else could these symptoms stem from?

Thanks!
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 28th March 2018, 13:50
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All listed points are good to check, let us know how you get on.

Are you using a Honda OEM fuel filter?

Do you know when it was replaced?
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 28th March 2018, 14:04
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The lack of any registered Diagnostic Trouble Codes points to the EGR valve sticking open. There is no code for this condition, despite there being a code for when it sticks shut (or is deliberately blanked off). I'd definitely be cleaning around the valve internals and carefully checking that the valve opens and closes properly when a vacuum is applied. Don't go mad on cleaning the pipework, it's a waste of time... http://www.civinfo.com/forum/how-gui...egr-valve.html

If you have access to a Honda Diagnostic System then you could just run the EGR test, where it compares rising EGR demand against falling MAF.

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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 28th March 2018, 16:32 Thread Starter
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That would explain my confusion at the lack of error codes! I'll definitely be cleaning the ERG then, as soon as I figure out where I can buy a new gasket... Infact, it'd probably be a good time to pay for a full engine carbon clean!
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 28th March 2018, 18:25
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That would explain my confusion at the lack of error codes! I'll definitely be cleaning the ERG then, as soon as I figure out where I can buy a new gasket... Infact, it'd probably be a good time to pay for a full engine carbon clean!
Probably only Honda for the gasket, but I think many simply clean up and reuse the old gasket.

I'm not a fan of 'engine cleaning', whether by use of additives or even Terraclean. I genuinely can't imagine how much of the build-up gets shifted, nor how any perceived benefits are anything other than short-term! I got 185k miles out of my Honda diesel using whatever cheap fuel was available and avoiding additives and treatments.

Even if you can't resist some sort of cleaning treatment, I'd definitely just manually clean the EGR valve first.
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 28th March 2018, 21:18 Thread Starter
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I'm not a fan of 'engine cleaning', whether by use of additives or even Terraclean. I genuinely can't imagine how much of the build-up gets shifted, nor how any perceived benefits are anything other than short-term!
Yes, I'll definitely be cleaning the EGR first either way. Does anyone else have the same/different opinions about Terraclean or similar? I've heard good things about it from other people so far..
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 28th March 2018, 21:41
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I've heard good things said about religion and homeopathy too. These things also have a lot of supporters!

I think you'll find a variety of opinions on the forum on the subject of additives and Terraclean...
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 28th March 2018, 22:03
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That would explain my confusion at the lack of error codes! I'll definitely be cleaning the ERG then, as soon as I figure out where I can buy a new gasket... Infact, it'd probably be a good time to pay for a full engine carbon clean!
cox do a kit with gaskets and a tin of spray to clean the junk/carbon build up
and if you register with forum user name we get a small discount
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 28th March 2018, 22:07
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Yes, I'll definitely be cleaning the EGR first either way. Does anyone else have the same/different opinions about Terraclean or similar? I've heard good things about it from other people so far..
ive heard good things from some and 1 i trust got it done on a old van and recomended it
but theres a lot of horror storys where its cleaned that much it has damaged the injector seals that have hardened with age
its also well know that mondeos/jags have had problems after teraclean
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 29th March 2018, 09:01
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I've heard good things said about religion and homeopathy too. These things also have a lot of supporters!
I wonder just what you are getting at Jon? I have heard that snake oil is pretty good for most things too (and that includes running on 98RON {other than for the reason 'because you can'})
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 29th March 2018, 09:11
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I wonder just what you are getting at Jon? I have heard that snake oil is pretty good for most things too (and that includes running on 98RON {other than for the reason 'because you can'})
If you believe in it strongly enough then you will see an improvement!

As a middle-class liberal leftie snowflake remainer, I naturally read The Guardian. This was an interesting article from just a couple of days ago "It's surprisingly easy to sell snake oil"... https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...billion-dollar
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 29th March 2018, 09:13
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Originally Posted by Jon_G View Post
Probably only Honda for the gasket, but I think many simply clean up and reuse the old gasket.

I'm not a fan of 'engine cleaning', whether by use of additives or even Terraclean. I genuinely can't imagine how much of the build-up gets shifted, nor how any perceived benefits are anything other than short-term! I got 185k miles out of my Honda diesel using whatever cheap fuel was available and avoiding additives and treatments.

Even if you can't resist some sort of cleaning treatment, I'd definitely just manually clean the EGR valve first.
i'm of the same mindset. i cant imagine how good those cleaners are.
that said, i have seen good results from redex type fluids but thats usually to fix a one off specific problem rather than ongoing maintenance type reasons.

imo the vast majority of issues seem to be from those who pootle along and never really get the engine working to it's full potential. Things get chocked up and never blown out or hot enough to burn off.
There's a thing called the Italian Tuneup. My time in the trade years ago made this the first line fix for MOT emission issues
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 29th March 2018, 09:23
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"It's surprisingly easy to sell snake oil"
But the followers of JC don't see his preachings as such. It's like using a loud air filter/exhaust system and 98RON Cost a huge amount of money for a tiny or nil return.
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 29th March 2018, 09:25
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I accept that cetane boosters do bring benefit, as do octane boosters on petrol engines (but only if the ignition timing is able to take advantage of it).

Quite a few 'cleaners' do also contain performance-boosting additives. Certainly BG244 does contain a cetane booster, which is odd as it doesn't help clean anything. Cynically I suspect that cleaners contain a booster so that some improvement is noticed by the driver, at least for the first tankful.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 29th March 2018, 09:29
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I wonder just what you are getting at Jon? I have heard that snake oil is pretty good for most things too (and that includes running on 98RON {other than for the reason 'because you can'})
Not seen many snakes where I live to extract the oil from...
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 29th March 2018, 16:36 Thread Starter
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I've decided NOT to get a professional clean... While I don't believe it's just 'snake oil', with an engine my age that's got a lot of carbon build up, I doubt it would do a good enough job to FULLY clean it. With the risk of it partially cleaning the system, loosening debris and seizing the engine, it seems the potential efficiency benefit doesn't outweigh the potential risk.

I'll be going forward with using SeaFoam in my fuel to see if it cleans the injectors and the 'surface' of the intake system/helps the EGR after I clean it by hand. I'll be sure to let you guys know if it makes any actual difference!
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Last edited by Chump; 29th March 2018 at 16:44.
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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 29th March 2018, 16:57
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Fingers crossed that cleaning the valve will sort you out. Do let us know.
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 29th March 2018, 19:55
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Test the EGR valve with a vacuum bleeder test tool. It should hold negative pressure and stay open. Leave it for at least 30 mins. Release the vacuum and the valve should should return smoothly and FULLY close on the seat.

You can buy those test kits for about 12quid off ebay. It's basically a little hand pump with a pressure gauge on it.
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Last edited by hondacivicnut; 29th March 2018 at 19:59.
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 8th April 2018, 16:23
 
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In case you still haven't tried cleaning the EGR valve I highly recommend you do it. This sounds very similar to what happened to mine, no lights on for me either. Just random limp mode, failure to pull away, stuck under 2k revs. After I cleaned the EGR valve it disappeared completely. The thing was really caked, 120k of sooty crap I imagine since I doubt it had ever been cleaned out before. The nuts certainly didn't feel like they'd moved since they were done up at the factory...

immelman's instructions are spot on, even a moron like me was able to do it.
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  Civinfo > 8th Generation Euro Honda Civic (2006 - 2011) > Bugs, faults and irritations (8G)

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