Electrics 12v Ignition Annoyance - Civinfo
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 2nd November 2013, 02:30 Thread Starter
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12v Ignition Annoyance

I read a post on here where someone was complaining about their dash camera restarting when starting the car. Personally I have not experienced this until now.

When I think about it, I do remember that with the stock radio, I would turn the key to position two, then start the car, and the music would stop, then resume in a few seconds.

Since getting my new headunit, it has become a great inconvenience, this is because the unit takes 20-30 seconds to boot, if I start the car during this time, the unit has to start booting again.

Has anyone else experienced this power "feature"? I assume it is common with all Honda Civics, rather than a battery issue?

For me, I think the best option is to put a capacitor on the ignition line going to the stereo, luckily the stereo has a connection to constant 12v, so there should be next to no draw from the ignition wire.
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 2nd November 2013, 02:31
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Can't say I've ever seen this happen with my HU... but then again depends on current draw when starting and what the battery can provide.
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 2nd November 2013, 04:11 Thread Starter
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Can't say I've ever seen this happen with my HU... but then again depends on current draw when starting and what the battery can provide.
I did think about it being the battery, but it was replaced a couple months ago with a slightly higher rated one, and connecting a much higher rated battery didn't make a difference.

With the stock headunit it's not so noticeable unless you use the USB function, then it will read the USB, start playing, then you start car, it will stop playing and load USB again.
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 2nd November 2013, 04:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x5252x View Post
I did think about it being the battery, but it was replaced a couple months ago with a slightly higher rated one, and connecting a much higher rated battery didn't make a difference.

With the stock headunit it's not so noticeable unless you use the USB function, then it will read the USB, start playing, then you start car, it will stop playing and load USB again.
Sorry, I should have said - I have a F940BT HU.
Strange that it happens on a new battery; I wonder if anyone else has had this problem. What HU have you got?
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 2nd November 2013, 04:51 Thread Starter
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Sorry, I should have said - I have a F940BT HU.
Strange that it happens on a new battery; I wonder if anyone else has had this problem. What HU have you got?
It's an Android headunit, but I think it is irrelevant to the issue as it is the car that seems to be cutting voltage temporarily, and the issue was there with the stock unit. It's just with the longer boot time, it is much more noticeable now.

This is the thread that I remember http://www.civinfo.com/forum/ipods-m...er-supply.html
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 2nd November 2013, 10:58
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Try restoring the HU.
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 2nd November 2013, 11:05
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Have the same with my Kenwood. Bit annoying if the kids are watching a film while in a car park as it takes a good 30 secs to reboot once the keys turned.

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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 2nd November 2013, 22:42 Thread Starter
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Tried again today, but this time the headunit did not restart.

I still think the power is cutting out for a brief moment, perhaps because the engine really does need the whole output of the battery, but I find this hard to believe.
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 4th November 2013, 20:06
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Tried again today, but this time the headunit did not restart.

I still think the power is cutting out for a brief moment, perhaps because the engine really does need the whole output of the battery, but I find this hard to believe.
You'll probably find that the head unit being (correct me if I'm wrong here) but a Chinese android head unit has low quality/capacity capacitors on the power input side. This will lead to a voltage drop when starting beyond what it can cope with or is happy to tolerate.

My factory fitted head unit music stops when I start the car, infact every car I've ever had the stereo has cut out when starting the car.
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 4th November 2013, 22:07 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by -mike- View Post
You'll probably find that the head unit being (correct me if I'm wrong here) but a Chinese android head unit has low quality/capacity capacitors on the power input side. This will lead to a voltage drop when starting beyond what it can cope with or is happy to tolerate.

My factory fitted head unit music stops when I start the car, infact every car I've ever had the stereo has cut out when starting the car.
It may or may not be the case, I have not looked too much inside the unit, but given the stock unit does it too, I doubt this is the problem.

I have yet to determine if it is just the ignition wire, or the line from the battery that causes the unit to switch off.

The Civic is my first car, so I'm not too familiar with what other stereos do.
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 4th November 2013, 22:41
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All of my cars have done the same mate.
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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 5th November 2013, 16:35
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mine does it too i think . think my pug didnt do it . but i could switch the accessory and permanent wires around so that it would stay on when you did not have keys in it

but you had to remember to switch off your head unit otherwise youd drain your battery when you came back to your car. but you wouldnt want to downgrade to a pug anyway lol
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 17th December 2013, 13:35
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Mine does it as well. I think it always has. I suspect you notice it more because of the time it takes your radio to start up.

Before I had a Double Din, I used a Parrot which didn't do it. It also stayed on for a few seconds after the keys were out.

In an ideal world, what you'd want a HU to do is use the ignition feed as a 'remote' and use the constant feed for power. If it did that, it could say that when it detects a drop in ignition power for 10 seconds, power down the device rather than killing it the instant the ignition feed is dropped.

My Dashcam doesn't stop recording as it has a battery inside and you can configure it to wait up to 10 minutes before powering down when the power feed is lost.
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 17th December 2013, 16:38
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the only way to stop it would be to use a capacitor large enough to hold a charge for as long as the car takes to start but you would need to put a diode in series with the positive feed to the capacitor to stop voltage returning when you turn the key to start the car
without one it would just drag the capacitor down to the same voltage of the battery and the problem would still be there

you could use a battery ( 12v gel cell ) in place of the capacitor but then you would have to think about charging issues and current regulation because gel cells or sealed lead acid batteries need to be trickle charged

just to add the capacitor would have to be wired to ignition live of the head unit in parallel and you would need to work out the current draw of your head unit and make sure the diode is big enough to cope

Last edited by cosmicma; 17th December 2013 at 16:47.
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 17th December 2013, 18:28 Thread Starter
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I'm actually thinking that the car is sucking all the juice to get it started.

Having tested the unit on my desk with a power supply, I know that once the ACC is disconnected, you still have around 5 to 10 seconds to connect it again without the unit needing to restart. I guess this feature is to avoid situations like I am having.

However, I am guessing the solution to this would still be a capacitor (+ diode like you mentioned), but the advantage now is that I do not have to worry about how long it takes to charge, as it would be connected to always live, rather than start charging when the key is turned.
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 17th December 2013, 19:12
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My Civic also does this, luckily my head unit only takes 5 seconds to boot up so is a minor inconvenience at best, I have been driving for 17 years and would guess 90% of my previous motors display this behaviour. Not sure there is any way around this tbh, prob something you will have to learn to live with.
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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 17th December 2013, 19:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x5252x View Post
I'm actually thinking that the car is sucking all the juice to get it started.

Having tested the unit on my desk with a power supply, I know that once the ACC is disconnected, you still have around 5 to 10 seconds to connect it again without the unit needing to restart. I guess this feature is to avoid situations like I am having.

However, I am guessing the solution to this would still be a capacitor (+ diode like you mentioned), but the advantage now is that I do not have to worry about how long it takes to charge, as it would be connected to always live, rather than start charging when the key is turned.
i think the problem with connecting it to battery live would be that battery live is to keep the head units memory intact ( pre sets , track position etc ) and would not stop the unit going through a reset once ignition live voltage has dropped enough to reset it
thats why i think the capacitor needs to be on ignition live to keep the unit switched on so to speak

or are you talking about connecting ignition ( acc ) live to battery live on the head unit meaning when you take the keys out of the ignition the unit would still be powered up ?
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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 17th December 2013, 20:32 Thread Starter
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Quote:
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i think the problem with connecting it to battery live would be that battery live is to keep the head units memory intact ( pre sets , track position etc ) and would not stop the unit going through a reset once ignition live voltage has dropped enough to reset it
thats why i think the capacitor needs to be on ignition live to keep the unit switched on so to speak

or are you talking about connecting ignition ( acc ) live to battery live on the head unit meaning when you take the keys out of the ignition the unit would still be powered up ?
I don't know how it works on other headunits, but as mine is connected via an ISO adapter, I assume it will be pretty standard. The unit has a constant 12v source, and then a trigger connected to ignition, so next to no current travels through the ignition wire.

Now, as I mentioned, the stereo will remain "on" for a short period once the ignition wire is no longer positive, so in my test setup, I can disconnect the ignition wire, wait 5 seconds, and connect it again without the radio restarting. However if I remove the constant source, and leave the ignition, the unit turns off instantly.

What I assume is happening is that the voltage of the battery is dropping too low to maintain power to the unit whilst the car turns over, so by using a capacitor here it should keep the stereo on for the brief time the car needs to start.

I don't know how sensitive the ignition trigger is to voltage, but I can always put a smaller capacitor on there too.
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 17th December 2013, 22:29
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sounds about right if disconnecting battery live kills the radio putting a capacitor with a diode might just do the trick
it'l be just a question of how big a capacitor and what current diode ( at least a couple of amps ) as power will run through the diode at all times
you will also get i think about 1 volt drop across the diode but i don't think it will make much difference
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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 20th December 2013, 20:18
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its to do with the x-cross over relay, when cranking the relay cuts power to un necessary stuff, ie, radio,fag lighter, lights, ect, all cars do it, some take longer than others, but the only way around it is to find an ign live thats also live on cranking, dont have any wiring diagrams so couldn't tell you which ones but good place to start would be the ign key, as once the key is tuned there will always be a live there even on cranking.

hope that helps
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