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Start Button Design tis' a bit crap really

Electrics 
9K views 99 replies 41 participants last post by  amronno 
#1 ·
On my 2.2 EX iCDTi, if you push the start button with the car in gear (accidentally of course) the car lurches. Considering that I had 4.5k's worth
of damage done to my tailgate caused by the crappy handbrake design, I don't trust it anymore so I leave it in gear where ever I go.

You'd have thought with all the clever gadgetry we have in our cars, the designers would have put in some circuitary to not attempt to start the car
when the car is in gear, like automatic's do! A bit pants really!!

After all the car also knows when the car is already started, so doesn't attempt to turn the starter when the enigne is already running. So I don't think it would have taken much to take an extra feed from the gearbox to work out the car is in gear.

Really the button is nothing more than a flash fancy gadget thats a replacement for the final turn of the key.
 
#2 ·
On my 2.2 EX iCDTi, if you push the start button with the car in gear (accidentally of course) the car lurches. Considering that I had 4.5k's worth
of damage done to my tailgate caused by the crappy handbrake design, I don't trust it anymore so I leave it in gear where ever I go.

You'd have thought with all the clever gadgetry we have in our cars, the designers would have put in some circuitary to not attempt to start the car
when the car is in gear, like automatic's do! A bit pants really!!

After all the car also knows when the car is already started, so doesn't attempt to turn the starter when the enigne is already running. So I don't think it would have taken much to take an extra feed from the gearbox to work out the car is in gear.

Really the button is nothing more than a flash fancy gadget thats a replacement for the final turn of the key.
I agree - manual Renaults will not start unless the clutch or brake pedal is pressed down as well.
 
#3 ·
I thought from the start that it was really just a little bit of marketing.
It actually annoys me that you have to put the key in, turn it, move your hand and press something else when its just easier to keep your hand on the key and complete that final twist. Its not that I'm lazy it just seems pointless to me.
One advantage however is that on diesels, you have to wait a little after turning on the ignition before starting the car for the glowplugs to warm up, so I guess that its not too bad for this activity.
Its been documented in the civinfo polls that quite a few people would like a proper keyless entry system, perhaps it'll come along at some point in the future.
 
#6 ·
You think so?? Try driving an Audi with an electric handbrake to see where all this ***** footing can lead :rolleyes: .... Give me full manual control anyday...

Really the button is nothing more than a flash fancy gadget thats a replacement for the final turn of the key.
 
#4 ·
That was one thing i noticed when going on the test drive, Key in, twist then a button???? Still like the idea though of pushing a red start button!

Also, our Chrysler is the same you have to have the clutch in to start. I naturally do that anyway. Always start clutch in and foot on the brake.
 
#7 ·
I fitted a start button to my Westfield not long ago, with a relay and ran it in parallel to the ignition start feed (final turn of the key). Piece of cake to fit, the only reason I did it is because when you've got the 4 point harnesses on, you can only just reach the key in the ignition.

So really its nothing more than that.
 
#8 ·
Quite frankly having a button to start shouldn't mean you really change how you start the car. Should be in the car, shut the door, seat belt on, if in gear foot on clutch and into natural and then turn the key and then in our case push the button simple.
Would you still be complaining if you didn't have a start button and turned the key the full way and had forgotten to take it out if gear? Probably not so what’s the problem?

Its the basics of what you are taught when you learn to drive apart from mirror, signal, manover. You are also taught to check the car is in neutral before you start or after you have applied the handbrake whilst stopped with the engine running.
 
#9 ·
I agree with Angie. What on earth has the start button got to do with being stupid enough to start an engine in gear?
The whole point of the button is to enjoy pressing a big red button to start the engine. Nothing more, nothing less. Its a red button the replaces the final turn of the key.
It certainly is not a convinience to have, but it makes starting no harder or more stressful!
I am a bit confused about the point of the thread being started. :confused:
 
#16 ·
Pressing the button on while applying the brake has been taught for many, many years. If your weren't, you probably had a crappy instructor who didn't care about their car or good practices!
I know I certainly teach my pupils to never apply it wothout the button, but the examiners will not usaully mark it as a fault on test. They can, but usually don't.
 
#19 ·
Pressing the button on while applying the brake has been taught for many, many years. If your weren't, you probably had a crappy instructor who didn't care about their car or good practices!
I know I certainly teach my pupils to never apply it wothout the button, but the examiners will not usaully mark it as a fault on test. They can, but usually don't.
how exactly is it bad practice??

it is exactly what a ratchet system is designed for.

pull it up to lock it in place, press the button to release the 'teeth' and release the lock element of the handbrake.
 
#20 ·
See! LOL Just ask yourself why HONDA UK sent out all those letters, to thousands of people about how to apply the handbrake on cars with faulty handbrakes?
no need to ask myself why.

to correct the temporary operation of a FAULTY handbrake, not handbrakes in general.
 
#21 ·
Anyway, back to this button thingy!!! :rolleyes:

I quite like mine, yes it is a pointless exercise and as you have to turn the key anyway, why not start it from the key, but I think it looks quite good. :)

If you start the car, how you should, with it out of gear and your foot on the clutch then there is no problem. :D
 
#22 ·
I do like having to press the button!

Although I do have some reservations on it. In my dad's renault espace with it's key card all you need to do is press the button briefly and it makes sure that the engine is started. With the Civic you have to hold the button down and wait for the engine to start properly before you let go.

Also it is an engine start and not also an engine "stop" button like in the espace. I suppose this has more to do with the fact you still need to get the civic into "ignition" mode turning the key.

Really what I am saying is that cars are designed differently but these are just observations i have!
 
#25 ·
Unfortunately guys and girls, I take your point that using the button is
just like turning the key and you shouldn't press when the car is in gear
particularly when the clutch is engaged.

However, using a car is a bit like using your computer. Users _DO_ do stupid things with them and when the user does do a stupid thing with it, the software and the computer shouldn't be designed such that consequences are bad.

I've lost count how many times I've had to fix a mates computer who's done stupid things with it and completely ballsed it up.

As a software engineer, myself, I'm always thinking how I can design my software to defend itself against stupid user actions, and I cannot see why
such a simple thing can't be done in a car too, because the consequences are bad in a car also.

In fact, I can't really see much of a reason why you'd ever want to start a car with it in gear when the clutch isn't pressed. So therefore I think it wouldn't be too hard to prevent it, rather like an automatic car does.
 
#26 ·
In fact, I can't really see much of a reason why you'd ever want to start a car with it in gear when the clutch isn't pressed. So therefore I think it wouldn't be too hard to prevent it, rather like an automatic car does.
There is a good reason to allow the starter to operate with the car in gear - and I have needed it once.

It was in an ancient Fiesta, that ran really badly. Occasionally it would cough and splutter and just conk out, and not re-start. One day it did this as I was turning right across a dual carriageway. I was left stranded in the middle of the road, with loads of cars now bearing down on me.

All I did was to use the starter motor (in first) to drive the car out of the way. To remove this form of auxiliary emergency power would be a mistake.
 
#28 ·
My pet hate on my Mums car is having to have your foot on the brake before you can fully turn the key to start the engine. Its an automatic and even when it park you still have to do it. Annoys the hell out of me, and has the worst handbrake in the world, fully engaged and it still reverses and pulls away with it on. I know why they make you put your foot on the brake to stop you moving off without realising it but there is no need for it on start up unless its in drive or reverse.
 
#29 ·
Many moons ago, my father bought a used car which the original owner had modified due to a fault with the ignition. He had redesigned it so that you turned the key to 'on' and then pushed a white button he had fitted next to the steering wheel to actually start the car. We thought it was kind of cool.

Oh, the car? It was mid 1970's Honda Civic!
 
#30 ·
BMW did a retro fit start button for the Mini, only thing that out me off it was I knew that it would go wrong as the electrics had a tendancy to do that. Bit like our cars, the one thing that will let them down (apart from paint, shocks and wherever other issues people may have) will be the electrics. Thats will be the death of cars today and it will be the death of them because it will cost so much to sort. Shame really.
 
#34 ·
Hopefully we'll be picking up our new baby on Saturday, I was wondering what the procedure is if you accidentally stall the engine (new car after all :rolleyes: ).

Do you have to turn the key again or do you just push the little red button :confused:

Thanks in advance [smilie=upyeah.gif]
 
#40 ·
That damn button sold me the car, not the dealer :D
btw: the button rulez :cool:, usually i can just just press the button and release it immediately for the engine to start, maybe 2 out of 10 times it wont start but that doesnt bother me.
I do remember my dealer telling me that when the car is in gear and u press the button without clutching, it wouldnt start, havent tried it though but apparently as i've just read, he lied to me [smilie=tongue.gif]

edit: or the poor man had no idea what he was talking about, lol
 
#56 ·
That damn button sold me the car, not the dealer :D
btw: the button rulez :cool:, usually i can just just press the button and release it immediately for the engine to start, maybe 2 out of 10 times it wont start but that doesnt bother me.
I do remember my dealer telling me that when the car is in gear and u press the button without clutching, it wouldnt start, havent tried it though but apparently as i've just read, he lied to me [smilie=tongue.gif]

edit: or the poor man had no idea what he was talking about, lol
The manual states to press the clutch pedal down before starting. I always wait a couple of seconds for the lights of go out before starting the car.

I stalled the car today and noticed that the system check symbol comes up and indicated a problem with the battery! It should really say 'Muppet give it more gas!' instead! lol
 
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