Electrics Start Button Design tis' a bit crap really - Civinfo
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post #1 of 100 (permalink) Old 16th May 2008, 11:39 Thread Starter
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Start Button Design tis' a bit crap really

On my 2.2 EX iCDTi, if you push the start button with the car in gear (accidentally of course) the car lurches. Considering that I had 4.5k's worth
of damage done to my tailgate caused by the crappy handbrake design, I don't trust it anymore so I leave it in gear where ever I go.

You'd have thought with all the clever gadgetry we have in our cars, the designers would have put in some circuitary to not attempt to start the car
when the car is in gear, like automatic's do! A bit pants really!!

After all the car also knows when the car is already started, so doesn't attempt to turn the starter when the enigne is already running. So I don't think it would have taken much to take an extra feed from the gearbox to work out the car is in gear.

Really the button is nothing more than a flash fancy gadget thats a replacement for the final turn of the key.
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post #2 of 100 (permalink) Old 16th May 2008, 11:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljsanders View Post
On my 2.2 EX iCDTi, if you push the start button with the car in gear (accidentally of course) the car lurches. Considering that I had 4.5k's worth
of damage done to my tailgate caused by the crappy handbrake design, I don't trust it anymore so I leave it in gear where ever I go.

You'd have thought with all the clever gadgetry we have in our cars, the designers would have put in some circuitary to not attempt to start the car
when the car is in gear, like automatic's do! A bit pants really!!

After all the car also knows when the car is already started, so doesn't attempt to turn the starter when the enigne is already running. So I don't think it would have taken much to take an extra feed from the gearbox to work out the car is in gear.

Really the button is nothing more than a flash fancy gadget thats a replacement for the final turn of the key.
I agree - manual Renaults will not start unless the clutch or brake pedal is pressed down as well.
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post #3 of 100 (permalink) Old 16th May 2008, 12:26
 
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I thought from the start that it was really just a little bit of marketing.
It actually annoys me that you have to put the key in, turn it, move your hand and press something else when its just easier to keep your hand on the key and complete that final twist. Its not that I'm lazy it just seems pointless to me.
One advantage however is that on diesels, you have to wait a little after turning on the ignition before starting the car for the glowplugs to warm up, so I guess that its not too bad for this activity.
Its been documented in the civinfo polls that quite a few people would like a proper keyless entry system, perhaps it'll come along at some point in the future.
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post #4 of 100 (permalink) Old 16th May 2008, 12:44
 
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That was one thing i noticed when going on the test drive, Key in, twist then a button???? Still like the idea though of pushing a red start button!

Also, our Chrysler is the same you have to have the clutch in to start. I naturally do that anyway. Always start clutch in and foot on the brake.
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post #5 of 100 (permalink) Old 16th May 2008, 12:50
More gadgets than Bond!
 
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A nice little gimmick to make the car feel sportier like the triangular tailpipe trims no benefit really just for show most people find red buttons irresistible sorry to say I'm one of them... I need to get out more!
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post #6 of 100 (permalink) Old 16th May 2008, 12:59
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Originally Posted by mike20 View Post
I thought from the start that it was really just a little bit of marketing.
It actually annoys me that you have to put the key in, turn it, move your hand and press something else when its just easier to keep your hand on the key and complete that final twist. Its not that I'm lazy it just seems pointless to me.
One advantage however is that on diesels, you have to wait a little after turning on the ignition before starting the car for the glowplugs to warm up, so I guess that its not too bad for this activity.
Its been documented in the civinfo polls that quite a few people would like a proper keyless entry system, perhaps it'll come along at some point in the future.
You think so?? Try driving an Audi with an electric handbrake to see where all this ***** footing can lead .... Give me full manual control anyday...

Really the button is nothing more than a flash fancy gadget thats a replacement for the final turn of the key.
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post #7 of 100 (permalink) Old 16th May 2008, 13:24 Thread Starter
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I fitted a start button to my Westfield not long ago, with a relay and ran it in parallel to the ignition start feed (final turn of the key). Piece of cake to fit, the only reason I did it is because when you've got the 4 point harnesses on, you can only just reach the key in the ignition.

So really its nothing more than that.
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post #8 of 100 (permalink) Old 16th May 2008, 13:39
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Quite frankly having a button to start shouldn't mean you really change how you start the car. Should be in the car, shut the door, seat belt on, if in gear foot on clutch and into natural and then turn the key and then in our case push the button simple.
Would you still be complaining if you didn't have a start button and turned the key the full way and had forgotten to take it out if gear? Probably not so what’s the problem?

Its the basics of what you are taught when you learn to drive apart from mirror, signal, manover. You are also taught to check the car is in neutral before you start or after you have applied the handbrake whilst stopped with the engine running.
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post #9 of 100 (permalink) Old 16th May 2008, 13:47
 
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I agree with Angie. What on earth has the start button got to do with being stupid enough to start an engine in gear?
The whole point of the button is to enjoy pressing a big red button to start the engine. Nothing more, nothing less. Its a red button the replaces the final turn of the key.
It certainly is not a convinience to have, but it makes starting no harder or more stressful!
I am a bit confused about the point of the thread being started.
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post #10 of 100 (permalink) Old 16th May 2008, 13:47
 
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Originally Posted by angie4m View Post
Quite frankly having a button to start shouldn't mean you really change how you start the car. Should be in the car, shut the door, seat belt on, if in gear foot on clutch and into natural and then turn the key and then in our case push the button simple.
Would you still be complaining if you didn't have a start button and turned the key the full way and had forgotten to take it out if gear? Probably not so what’s the problem?

Its the basics of what you are taught when you learn to drive apart from mirror, signal, manover. You are also taught to check the car is in neutral before you start or after you have applied the handbrake whilst stopped with the engine running.
Very true! How can people complain if its in the driving test? Mind you we are also taught to keep the hand brake button pressed in when applying it, and look whats happened there! lol

I've always believed that the more fancy stuff you add the more things to go wrong!
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post #11 of 100 (permalink) Old 16th May 2008, 13:48
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Originally Posted by cnicolini View Post
Very true! How can people complain if its in the driving test? Mind you we are also taught to keep the hand brake button pressed in when applying it, and look whats happened there! lol

I've always believed that the more fancy stuff you add the more things to go wrong!
were you?? i know i wasnt
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post #12 of 100 (permalink) Old 16th May 2008, 13:54
 
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were you?? i know i wasnt
Yes of course, and so were many other people. Mind you I did pass my test in 1986! lol You should nt have to listen to click, click, click while pulling it up!
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post #13 of 100 (permalink) Old 16th May 2008, 13:55
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were you?? i know i wasnt
I concur! I was never told to hold the button in whilst applying the handbrake, only to push it in when disengaging the handbrake and I learnt to drive and pased my test 6 years ago, nearly 7 now.

And BMW had the excat same issue with the Mini's when they came out up until December 2002 when they discovered the problem with the handbrake releasing itself, so the wee flyer I got from Honda was just telling me what I already did But BMW changed the handbrake the day after I got the letter.

Last edited by angie4m; 16th May 2008 at 13:58.
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post #14 of 100 (permalink) Old 16th May 2008, 13:56
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Originally Posted by cnicolini View Post
Yes of course, and so were many other people. Mind you I did pass my test in 1986! lol You should nt have to listen to click, click, click while pulling it up!
I was taught to pull up the handbrake so that you hear the clicking of the ratchet - i.e. without using the button. The button is designed to disengage the ratchet system and release the brake.
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post #15 of 100 (permalink) Old 16th May 2008, 13:59
 
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They must of changed the rules then, mind you there was a law in the early days were a person had to walk infront of the car with a flag! He would be knackered now with a CTR! lol

Last edited by cnicolini; 16th May 2008 at 14:03.
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Pressing the button on while applying the brake has been taught for many, many years. If your weren't, you probably had a crappy instructor who didn't care about their car or good practices!
I know I certainly teach my pupils to never apply it wothout the button, but the examiners will not usaully mark it as a fault on test. They can, but usually don't.
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post #17 of 100 (permalink) Old 16th May 2008, 14:04
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Press it in, do not press it in, makes no difference as long as you ensure the last click properly engages the ratchet. Do not press it in and the pawl will wear out more quickly resulting in a dodgy handbrake.
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post #18 of 100 (permalink) Old 16th May 2008, 14:05
 
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See! LOL Just ask yourself why HONDA UK sent out all those letters, to thousands of people about how to apply the handbrake on cars with faulty handbrakes?
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post #19 of 100 (permalink) Old 16th May 2008, 14:06
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Originally Posted by Bungle View Post
Pressing the button on while applying the brake has been taught for many, many years. If your weren't, you probably had a crappy instructor who didn't care about their car or good practices!
I know I certainly teach my pupils to never apply it wothout the button, but the examiners will not usaully mark it as a fault on test. They can, but usually don't.
how exactly is it bad practice??

it is exactly what a ratchet system is designed for.

pull it up to lock it in place, press the button to release the 'teeth' and release the lock element of the handbrake.
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post #20 of 100 (permalink) Old 16th May 2008, 14:22
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Originally Posted by cnicolini View Post
See! LOL Just ask yourself why HONDA UK sent out all those letters, to thousands of people about how to apply the handbrake on cars with faulty handbrakes?
no need to ask myself why.

to correct the temporary operation of a FAULTY handbrake, not handbrakes in general.
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