Battery 2.2 Battery Dead, again. - Civinfo
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 8th March 2015, 14:39 Thread Starter
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2.2 Battery Dead, again.

Hi Guys,

I have a 2.2 sport (no HFT module installed that I know of) that has been discharging its battery over night.

This has been happening this for the past few weeks and I am at the end of my tether. Would you guys be able to offer advice with this. Here is everything done so far:

1. In uni working late one night the car was dead, I got a friend to Jump it and I made it home at 1am.

2. The next morning at 8am it worked fine.

3. Two days later of no use the car was dead again. I got a new 74/680 096 battery to replace as the few mechanic friends suspected this was the problem, especially as the previous battery was 8 years old.

4. For a few days the car worked fine but then needed jumped again. After which my uncle and I performed an open-bonnet parasitic draw test. 0.00A was being used up to 5 minutes after locking the car (maybe I need the bonnett closed to properly perfom this test?). Next suspect, either a duff battery or alternator.

5. 3 days later the car was dead again so my uncle and I jumped it and were preparing to being it to the garage. Shortly after jumping, the A/C relief valve popped and gassed the driver side of the engine bay, also the alternator was providing some strange noises and a wonderful cooked smell.

5. Brought the car to the local good mechanic, he identified the alternator was at fault and got a replacement installed and fully topped the battery.

6. The next day it was dead again, luckily I got a friend to charge the batt but still haven't tried to start it/restore the batt.

And thats where we are now.

I have read that an OMRON relay in the fuse box can cause the A/C to drain the battery and over-pressurise the system. I have removed the relay and it does have an audible rattle BUT on performing a continuity test there is no power flowing between the A/C pins.

Do you guys think this is what may be causing the problem??

Also, is it OK to drive without this relay in the car??

Thanks for your help
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 9th March 2015, 16:13
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I have a 2.2 sport (no HFT module installed that I know of) that has been discharging its battery over night.

Do you have bluetooth in your car?



4. For a few days the car worked fine but then needed jumped again. After which my uncle and I performed an open-bonnet parasitic draw test. 0.00A was being used up to 5 minutes after locking the car (maybe I need the bonnett closed to properly perfom this test?). Next suspect, either a duff battery or alternator.

0.00A is not right. There will always be a drain on the car. Set the multi meter to a lower range and confirm.

Replacing the relay is not too expensive and a known problem, so might as well do it to see if it solves the problem
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 9th March 2015, 16:25 Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply law000.
Nope I dont have any bluetooth HFT in the car but I do have an update on the situation.

I removed the relay last night at 10pm, checked the Voltage on the battery and then checked it today. The battery didnt even loose .1V volt and the eingine started straight away.

I am satisfied that this has been sorted and am going to monitor this all week then order the relay.

So happy this appears to be resolved. I suspect that if I replaced this relay before the the alternator got cooked that it may have saved it (almost dead battery + jumping may have put too much strain on the alt for too long, or alternatively the jumping may have fried it). Live and learn, ill add this to the wiki.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 9th March 2015, 18:07
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Any chance of getting the drain readings both with, and without the relay installed?
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 9th March 2015, 20:42 Thread Starter
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Hi x5252x.

I would be very reluctant to put this relay near my car again. It has failed in such a way that there is a loose resistor rattling around inside it which is:

a) preventing signals from the AC control system controlling the compressor
b) causing a short across the bottom pins of the relay/the internal coil assembly

This worries me as if its not perfectly shorting the pins it may cause intermittent/unclean voltage getting applied and potentially causing damage to the compressor. That and I need to get the A/C regassed and re-oiled before I engage again it as I experienced a relief valve gassing.

Knowing this value would be great to help diagnose this problem but there is an easier way to do this. Remove the relay and give it a light shake, if you hear the resistor in it then its damaged if not then its likely fine (or in a fail state where the resistor is not loose).

If you want to perform the testing, PM me your address and ill send this failed relay to you. One thing to note is as its the loose resistor causing this issue you will need to test when it has shorted the pins for sure. Otherwise you can emulate this by manually shorting the bottom two pins of this relay on yours.

Last edited by Funkimunk; 9th March 2015 at 21:04.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 9th March 2015, 21:08
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No worries, I can understand that.

If you are certain that the relay is just shorting (which sounds reasonable), then it would be easy for me to test without having the faulty one.

To be honest I was simply interested in how much power the car was drawing with this fault, since I suspect it would drain the battery very quickly, perhaps within an hour or two.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 9th March 2015, 21:15
 
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Had this on an Astra and it was the alternator shorting out. Didn't happen every time but when it did the battery was on full power and drained very quickly. New alternator fixed the issue
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 9th March 2015, 21:53 Thread Starter
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I just broke out the multimeter and did a quick continuity test. After some slight shaking I got the following result.





So I'm 100% sure this is just shorting. Be careful if you are going to manually short this, it put my 74ah batt from 12.8 v to 6.2 in under 10 hours... It has a lot of drainage potential.

Martin1973, I'm hoping the combination of the new Alt and removing this relay fixes all my power problems for good
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 10th March 2015, 00:57
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Good to know, thank you for testing it out.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 17th March 2015, 10:57
 
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A faulty CR-V A/C relay will pull about 3A. So yes, that will drain any battery in a jiffey...

A tip when performing a parasitic draw check. Unplug the hood connector and shortwire it. The car will then think the hood is closed.
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 19th March 2015, 21:39 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisenhut View Post
A faulty CR-V A/C relay will pull about 3A. So yes, that will drain any battery in a jiffey...

A tip when performing a parasitic draw check. Unplug the hood connector and shortwire it. The car will then think the hood is closed.

3A! no wonder it was unusable after a small amount of time!

Good tip on the Hood connector. Im going to do another draw test tomorrow , with the new relay in, and will do this to fool the ecu.

Any tips on where this hood connector wire is? (or is the the standard case of obvious when you look for it)
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 20th March 2015, 09:55
 
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This is an "over the top" photo of the connector. Just unplug it and shortwire it.



I use to do like this:



This is just to show how much a CR-V with a broken relay can pull.

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 20th March 2015, 11:01
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My issue is around the interior light,.... as a quick test, turn them both OFF, and see if it still happens!
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 20th March 2015, 11:16
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I was told many years ago that if a car battery discharges fully then it will never hold a charge again unless professionally charged from scratch assuming no damage has been done.

Apparently batteries have 2 stages of charge. As long as stage 1 isn't affected then stage 2 can be up and down with no issues which is normally the case with non use.

If the battery discharges stage 1 then a quick stage 2 charge as performed by the alternator and most battery chargers will be quickly lost by stage 1 dragging it down.

Could be a load of bunkum but I've had and heard of batteries not holding charge when there was nothing wrong with the car. In my case she left the lights on all day. Battery kept discharging, even after a 200 mile run it went flat overnight. New battery and no further issues.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 20th March 2015, 12:15
 
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That's mostly true Krimmen.

A battery that's been fully discharged could be terminally broken. If you would have any chance to resurrect it you need to "hardcharge" it. A simple alternator output is ceratainly not enough and neither is a common car charger.

Hondas chargers made by midtronics gives an amperage output of 25A with 12V. This is enough to resurrect a normal car battery but as said it's not always it works.
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