VSA VSA on snow, dangerous? - Civinfo
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post #1 of 52 (permalink) Old 19th December 2009, 17:19 Thread Starter
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VSA on snow, dangerous?

So we just got about 30 cm of nice fresh snow where i live, and the plows where a bit slow on getting all the roads clear. Since i have never tested my CTR on this kind of surface i took it out for a short trip of about 12 km to see how it was.

As i said the roads are snow covered, and for the most part not been cleared yet. This lead to some rather unstable conditions when other cars had gone before me. On the slow parts, 50-60 km/h, it was ok. Was driving with VSA on. Anti-spin was a bit to quick to take control, but nothing major.

The dangerous, and what scared me, was when i got out on a pretty straight road where the speed limit is 80 km/h. Same road conditions, nice powder that other cars have driven on. When i got up to some speed, somewhere between 60 and 75 i started to notice a slight pendulum effect in the rear of the car. I slowed down to 40-50 but it continued and increased over time. As soon as i turned the VSA off the car straightened out again and i got much more control.

What i think happened was that the rear shifted slightly in its tracks due to the tracks left of other cars in front of me. Then the VSA picked this up and tried to compensate. Because of the slippery conditions the car started going the other way and the VSA compensated again, leading to a pendulum effect in the rear. Does this sound plausible?

It put a bit of a scare in me seeing that slowing down had no effect, but that turning the VSA off did. I'm considering driving with it off now as long as im not just driving slowly in the city.

Edit: Just to clarify, i have proper winter tyres, Nokian Hakkapelitta without spikes on original 18" rims, 55/225.
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post #2 of 52 (permalink) Old 19th December 2009, 17:42
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I have not noticed this myself, but it may be possible I suppose....



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post #3 of 52 (permalink) Old 19th December 2009, 17:52
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Could one of your rear callipers be sticking?



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post #4 of 52 (permalink) Old 19th December 2009, 18:09
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ths View Post
As soon as i turned the VSA off the car straightened out again and i got much more control.
Did you try turning the VSA back on again to confirm that when it was back on, the same thing happened, and then off again to confirm that's definately what stopped it? If not, it's possible it was just a coincidence that whatever was causing it (road camber + snow, the way the tracks were, etc) stopped at the same time you turned VSA off.
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post #5 of 52 (permalink) Old 19th December 2009, 18:27
 
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I though Honda didn't advise the use of VSA in snow/ice conditions.

Could be wrong though.
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post #6 of 52 (permalink) Old 19th December 2009, 18:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyF View Post
I though Honda didn't advise the use of VSA in snow/ice conditions.

Could be wrong though.
Only if you are stuck in for example deep snow.

When actually driving on it you most certainly want it on!



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post #7 of 52 (permalink) Old 19th December 2009, 18:31
 
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Got it. Just want some snow now!!
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post #8 of 52 (permalink) Old 19th December 2009, 19:17
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Deep snow and slippery conditions ? - VSA off and very gentle with throttle and brakes. ...
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post #9 of 52 (permalink) Old 19th December 2009, 19:27
 
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I know I'm pretty new here, and I don't want to seem like I'm stepping over the line, but could I politely suggest we try to avoid turning this thread into this one:
http://www.civinfo.com/forum/electro...-what-fun.html
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post #10 of 52 (permalink) Old 19th December 2009, 19:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutter View Post
I know I'm pretty new here, and I don't want to seem like I'm stepping over the line, but could I politely suggest we try to avoid turning this thread into this one:
http://www.civinfo.com/forum/electro...-what-fun.html
Yes, let's not go there again!



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post #11 of 52 (permalink) Old 19th December 2009, 19:51 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FWH View Post
Could one of your rear callipers be sticking?
Could be, but why would it stop when VSA gets turned off then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutter View Post
Did you try turning the VSA back on again to confirm that when it was back on, the same thing happened, and then off again to confirm that's definately what stopped it? If not, it's possible it was just a coincidence that whatever was causing it (road camber + snow, the way the tracks were, etc) stopped at the same time you turned VSA off.
I don't think its as easy as that to test it, since it was most likely a combination of several factors. I will however use the VSA when going on a 500 km trip now just before christmas, and it looks like we will have snowy conditions most of the trip.

Anyone remember what the weight ratio front to back is on a CTR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Derek Riddell View Post
Deep snow and slippery conditions ? - VSA off and very gentle with throttle and brakes. ...
Yes, i know that Been driving every winter the last ten years, but never experienced this sort of problem in previous cars. Had a 97 Honda Civic Coupe, 88 Nissan Bluebird (Stanza), and a 08 Mitsubishi Lancer Sport Sedan. Only the Mitsubishi had any sort of fancy VSA. I am starting to wonder if the shorter wheelbase of the CTR might have anything to do with it to/making the situation worse.
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post #12 of 52 (permalink) Old 19th December 2009, 20:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ths View Post
Could be, but why would it stop when VSA gets turned off then?
I was thinking that the VSA was trying to overcompensate for the small problem that occurs when the calliper was sticking...



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post #13 of 52 (permalink) Old 19th December 2009, 23:32
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with the the snow/ice road conditions we've had here for the last couple of days, i've found the car easier to control with vsa off, less wheelspin and better to brake without abs constantly cutting in.

more clutch control, less braking
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post #14 of 52 (permalink) Old 20th December 2009, 00:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ths View Post
anyone remember what the weight ratio front to back is on a ctr?
64 / 36
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post #15 of 52 (permalink) Old 20th December 2009, 01:51
 
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it might be in fact. snow "tracks" left by previous cars are quite a problem with electronic controls because in fact the car steers or "changes position on the road" and the steering wheel is not involved in this process. i guess it might sortof be fooled by it..

comes to mind a mail i read some time ago with cruise control and the uhm. how to call it in english. water planing? (the phenomenon where your car acts as an hovercraft with big/deep water pool taken at decent speed). the cars of course slows down, and the cruise control throttles like hell to compensate the lost of speed.

i guess the lesson learned is: better on or better off, what's best really is having your brain ready to deactivate those damn thingies in no time when all gets out of hand
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post #16 of 52 (permalink) Old 20th December 2009, 03:41
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyF View Post
Got it. Just want some snow now!!

I take it you have not had the civic long?

first time you drive it on proper snow/ice it might be the last time you want to do so.

Might just be the I-Shifts that have more problems, but mine the front end just totally locks and takes some efford to keep it undercontrol

just becareful when on snow and ice.


and the VSA off does slightly help but i'd rather not risk it, was just for pulling away i had tried it ..
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post #17 of 52 (permalink) Old 20th December 2009, 09:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ths
What i think happened was that the rear shifted slightly in its tracks due to the tracks left of other cars in front of me
I have never experienced something like this this with my 1.8 even though many roads in eastern Norway are pretty much like two deep worn out tracks, almost like a "railway line" during winter... There must be a real slide starting for the VSA to kick in, small adjustments or settlements are allowed by the VSA. If the VSA is engaged, you would feel and hear it more clearly I believe. But maybe the FN2 is different though?


Quote:
Originally Posted by civ-boy View Post
with the the snow/ice road conditions we've had here for the last couple of days, i've found the car easier to control with vsa off, less wheelspin and better to brake without abs constantly cutting in.

more clutch control, less braking
Doesn't the ABS work independently of the VSA? You can't switch the ABS off I think.
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post #18 of 52 (permalink) Old 20th December 2009, 09:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morten View Post
I have never experienced something like this this with my 1.8 even though many roads in eastern Norway are pretty much like two deep worn out tracks, almost like a "railway line" during winter... There must be a real slide starting for the VSA to kick in, small adjustments or settlements are allowed by the VSA. If the VSA is engaged, you would feel and hear it more clearly I believe. But maybe the FN2 is different though?
You should see the VSA light coming on at least.


Quote:
Originally Posted by morten View Post
Doesn't the ABS work independently of the VSA? You can't switch the ABS off I think.
Correct.



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post #19 of 52 (permalink) Old 20th December 2009, 14:59
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I was out for a fair bit of driving today.

We have around 15cm of snow last night, so in total about 30cm now.
It continued to snow quite hard during parts of the day too.

I never experienced anything like you described.
I would say either there was something very specific with the road you were on or there is some kind of fault with your car.

I had to turn the VSA off to drive up my fairly steep drive way (couldn't be bothered to shovel the snow out of the way), but after that I was more than happy to keep it ON all the time.



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post #20 of 52 (permalink) Old 20th December 2009, 15:36
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Yeeppp - got 'stuck' yesterday, exiting a roundabout up a sharp and steep turn - with VSA on as normal ...

Turned VSA off, gave it some 'welly' and powered my way up, no problem ! ...
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