Alarm 2006 Alarm Siren (Dismantled) - Civinfo
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post #1 of 74 (permalink) Old 23rd July 2011, 13:14 Thread Starter
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2006 Alarm Siren (Dismantled)

This may prove helpful to some people who are having problems with their alarm siren going off all the time after a flat battery. Mine is doing this, from reading up on the internet it suggests that there is either an issue with the siren circuit board or the batteries themselves so I have dismantled the unit in the hope of repairing it rather than spending 600 on a new one (which I will probably end up doing anyway!).

1) Get a 10mm socket, this is used for everything. Then, locate the siren. This is done by:
  • Removing the boot weatherstrip
  • Removing the piece of plastic at the back of the boot, by unclipiing and tugging sharply upwards
  • Removing the secret compartment lid, there are two screws in the compartment and two hidden underneath the bit of carpet that is velcroed down
  • Tugging the right hand side of the boot lining until all the clips snap and there are lots of worrying creaking noises



The siren is located in the hole you can see above, I have already removed it.

This is the siren module itself:



It seems to be manufactured by Cobra, but all the other numbers and letters mean very little to me.

Inside the unit:



As can be seen, there are some button cells in there. NiMH ones, which have a life cycle of about 5 years, or 500-1000 charge cycles. Always good to know on a 5 year old car. Why the siren even has a backup battery is beyond me, but that's another story altogether.



So, now I know what size and type of batteries are in there. There are 6 250mah 1.2v v250h cells, total combined voltage of 7.2v. They are wired in series inside all that green tape:



Because I now know what type of batteries they are, I have ordered some replacements, to see if putting new "fresh" batteries in will save me 580. i ordered three of these:

VARTA|2/V250H|BATTERY, NI-MH MEMPAC PCB 2.4V | CPC

Like I said, whether it works or not I don't know, or whether the jump start has actually destroyed the siren circuitry or not remains to be seen. But, a 20 attempt at fixing it might as well be done.

I will report back when the batteries arrive...
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post #2 of 74 (permalink) Old 24th July 2011, 09:35
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Interesting, I never knew it was there. Hopefully the new batteries wil work.
I guess it has backup batteries in case the main battery is disconected by the thief?
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post #3 of 74 (permalink) Old 24th July 2011, 11:20 Thread Starter
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I would imagine so, it seems to be a common theme. There are lots of threads on VAG forums where they are replacing the batteries in their cobra sirens with higher capacity ones due to the siren going off constantly. I guess its a common design flaw on this alarm brand, and nit entirely Honda's fault for once...
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post #4 of 74 (permalink) Old 24th July 2011, 11:58 Thread Starter
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Another interesting tidbit is that when NiMH cells reach the end of their usable life they constantly draw a small current in an attempt to charge themselves. Makes me wonder if this could contribute to all the constant flat battery issues on older cars, if the current drain is preventing the MICU from sleeping...
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post #5 of 74 (permalink) Old 24th July 2011, 12:28
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Hi interesting report on car alarms, as already stated back up batteries are there to maintain alarm integerity [i assume] Please comment on results after new ones are fitted.
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post #6 of 74 (permalink) Old 24th July 2011, 13:29
 
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Yes, all alarms have a backup battery for the siren to make sure it operates if wires are cut.

Couldn't see from the photos, but are the batteries clip in or soldered to the pcb.
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post #7 of 74 (permalink) Old 24th July 2011, 13:45 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodger View Post
Yes, all alarms have a backup battery for the siren to make sure it operates if wires are cut.

Couldn't see from the photos, but are the batteries clip in or soldered to the pcb.
The 6 batteries are attached together with wire strips and conductive glue, and the red and black wires attach to the batteries with a wire strip and to the PCB with a push in fitting that looks like the ones PC fans are connected with.
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post #8 of 74 (permalink) Old 24th July 2011, 13:48
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....thanks for this...look forward to the update.



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post #9 of 74 (permalink) Old 26th July 2011, 10:58 Thread Starter
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Stage 2

Next step, unfortunately I can't progress to banging around in the car at the moment as Mrs Dave is on night shifts and waking her would result in unpleasant consequences.

Here you can see my "new and improved" battery pack side by side with the old one. The batteries are the exact same dimensions, and they are held together with some conductive copper tape used to lay power grids for model railways:




And a closer image of the connector to plug the batteries onto the PCB:



For those interested parties, the following are images of the circuit board from all sides. The 6 large prongs with the yellow base are the connectors to the car's electrical system. The white connector that can be seen is for the power supply. Given that it appears to be a standard PC fan connector and that it is easily removed from the batteries themselves, I see no reason why much larger capacity batteries couldn't be attached if this repair works successfully. I'm not really sure why the PCB seems to be covered in chewing gum, i can only presume the assembly line worker got bored...








Like I say, more to follow when I can safely bang and clank and set the alarm off...
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post #10 of 74 (permalink) Old 26th July 2011, 12:29
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Hi once again davestones this kind of info and pics make this web site what it is ajoy to watch.
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post #11 of 74 (permalink) Old 26th July 2011, 13:33
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The "chewing gum" is there to prevent the components flexing and breaking off the board. Imagine the shock transfer as your car goes over bumps, it suppresses these shocks and acts also as a fixer
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post #12 of 74 (permalink) Old 28th July 2011, 14:18 Thread Starter
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Progress update, not necessarily a good one.

So I rebuilt the battery pack, and now that my new multimeter arrived today (4 from eBay, can't go wrong) I reassembled everything to see what happened.

The old battery pack had a voltage across it of 1-1.5V. Not good. The new one had a voltage across it of 2.9V. Still not good but better, evidently these batteries don't come fully charged from the factory which is a shame but to be expected with NiMH cells.

I plugged the batteries into the siren circuit and screwed everything tightly back together. Checked the voltage across the main battery first before I did anything and it measured 10.7V. This isn't ideal, however given that it is an almost-new battery and has been sat around for several months doing nothing and I won't actually be cranking the car over until October it will do fine for my purposes and can be recharged at a later date.

When wiring the ammeter in series, the following observations were noted:
  • Locking/unlocking the car creates about a 3.5A surge.
  • This drops to 0.4A very quickly afterwards.
  • About 1 minute later this drops to 0.08A.

From reading around, the ideal maximum for a parasitic draw on the battery is about 50mA, without the siren plugged in my car is registering about 80mA. Almost there, but not quite and yet not entirely out of the realms of acceptability.

I disconnected the battery again, and plugged the siren in. No siren as yet, all good. Upon reconnecting the battery however, the siren sounds on and off for 20s at a time much as it did before, the only difference this time is that when I disconnect the positive pole on the car battery, the siren doesn't stop, merely gets a little bit quieter (but still ear-splitting).

From this, I have drawn the following conclusions:
  • The batteries in my siren were in fact dead.
  • The siren needs more than 1.5V and less than 3V to operate constantly and be really annoying.

As I couldn't remember how to get the siren to re-sync to the immobiliser system I ripped it out and left it for now. On the plus side, the indicators now flash when the siren goes off, they didn't before with the old batteries

Hopefully when the car goes into the dealer to have the keys reprogrammed the alarm can be re-synced too. Oh, and all through this experiment the bonnet catch sensor was disconnected. Leaving it connected causes problems with the alarm when you try to do tests and whatnot...
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post #13 of 74 (permalink) Old 29th July 2011, 15:47
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I suggest 3.5amp inrush is due to surge in flux density, falling off quickly once the armature is pulled in. Would be interesting to see if battery volts on alarm reach the 7.2V when they are fully charged. Its a bit disturbing to note once the alarm battery volts fall below 3V oweners may be suject to nuisence tripping.
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post #14 of 74 (permalink) Old 7th June 2012, 01:06
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I have the same problem. It seems that if you keep a civic long enough then you will get all the reported faults. First the flashers stopped working on setting/unsetting, then a few days later the red led stopped working as well. I can't see this photos, is it possible to repost them or provide a link??
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post #15 of 74 (permalink) Old 9th June 2012, 03:41
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Oh no more pics.
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post #16 of 74 (permalink) Old 9th June 2012, 10:51
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Oh no more pics.
I can only see something that looks like a No Entry Roadsign in the pictures
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post #17 of 74 (permalink) Old 9th June 2012, 10:53 Thread Starter
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Blame Picasa/Google. I will re-host when I find them again.
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post #18 of 74 (permalink) Old 9th June 2012, 11:16
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post #19 of 74 (permalink) Old 9th June 2012, 15:28
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I really wanted to see what is inside my Si's alarm.

I am not paying honda for a bloody battery or if they try to con me into a new alarm.
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post #20 of 74 (permalink) Old 9th June 2012, 15:31 Thread Starter
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The images should be working again now. Anyway, apart from being interesting I still had to fork out 700 for a new module last year, my tinkering didn't resolve the issues.
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