ACC woes, differences and questions - Civinfo
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post #1 of 68 (permalink) Old 4th February 2018, 19:06 Thread Starter
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ACC woes, differences and questions

So over in the traffic sign recognition thread M8TJT and I went a bit astray talking about the cruise control.

He doesn't like the braking of the ACC going downhill (without following someone). Instead he would like it to coast like it did in the previous generations.

I, on the other hand, would have said, that my car is not braking while going downhill. I am annoyed however by the following behavior as it is way to precisely keeping the distance on the two bar setting I normally use, which gets horrible when someone in front of you is goin 70 75 70 75 in 5 second intervals.


To pick up on that, I've tested today and can definitely say: My car is coasting downhill, no braking whatsoever. So it seems like the Type R has a different implementation of the ACC than the normal 10G - which I find rather curios. OR I have accidentally fiddled with some setting affecting it without me realizing

I still don't know if and when the brake lights turn on - if someone is doing the 70 75 70 thing in front of me and my brake lights turn on every time I probably look like a total idiot. Do I have to mount a camera to find out?
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post #2 of 68 (permalink) Old 4th February 2018, 19:39
 
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Easy way to see is if the area around the center break light is a little fogged up in the sedan/limousine. I can confirm that the ACC in the non type R 1.5's also breaks a lot more than I normally would.

Turning off the cut in prediction control helps especially with it slowing down for cars leaving the motorway.

Reducing your speed using the set - button will cause the system to break for you if you drop the set speed by more than 10kph. Although it will break for a 10 reduction if you're going downhill. Generally though I've seen that a 10kph variation by you or the car in front of you it doesn't break.

I was hoping by turning on the ECON button that it would coast more. Nope. According to the US manual you can switch from ACC to normal cruise control so it won't break for you anymore, not mentioned so far in the European manual. I'm at page 4 hundred something still though.

I'm assuming like the 9G hatch it's difficult to see the center break light in the 10G hatch in the rear view mirror during the day?
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post #3 of 68 (permalink) Old 4th February 2018, 20:25
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I had a UK 9G hatch on loan a couple of days ago and it did not brake on downhill, and oversped my set speed by about 10MPH.
My 10G however applies the brakes, and I find that it seems to be controlling the speed to tightly and tends to 'hunt' a bit normally, accelerate, brake, accelerate, brake etc. It's the braking that annoys me, just let it roll. I can understand the need for braking in the follow mode and I usually follow at 4 bars because I find 2 a bit close for open road follow.
Must see if I can see the centre brake light to see what's going on. Must see if the 'cut in' prediction changes anything, but I doubt it as no other car is involved anyway.
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post #4 of 68 (permalink) Old 4th February 2018, 21:00
 
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I've noticed the hunting you mention. It's particularly bad in 6th at around 80kph 50mph. Couldn't see the break light at the time to see if it was just on and off the gas or if breaking was involved.

Yup wife's 9G cruises too, they didn't get ACC.
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post #5 of 68 (permalink) Old 4th February 2018, 23:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peniole View Post
I've noticed the hunting you mention. It's particularly bad in 6th at around 80kph 50mph.
That's about the combination of gear and speed that I noticed it most as well. I can understand it in follow mode, but not straight CC with no car to follow.
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post #6 of 68 (permalink) Old 5th February 2018, 10:47
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It seems that reducing the speed by 10mph or more (e.g. by holding the - button) will trigger braking, however reducing by smaller amounts results in just reducing the throttle.

I find the 3 bar distance setting to be a good distance for motorway driving in normal/dry conditions. Also, I like the fact that when a vehicle cuts in front of you - breaking is only triggered if they are going slower or at the same speed that you are - most of the time people who cut in will be going faster.

I felt the ACC made my long motorway journey to Dorset last week much less tiresome, especially on the busy M25 which would usually make the use of basic cruise control impractical due to the almost constant changing of speeds. Having the car automatically keep pace with changing traffic speeds while maintaining a safe distance is wonderful and the ACC is probably my favourite feature.

I've not had any issues with the cut in protection and I find that it works exactly as it should, there are so many bad drivers who will look for any opportunity to undertake and it's clever that the car can detect that. I've not noticed the hunting behaviour mentioned above, my 10G is the 1.0, could that have anything to do with it?

As for the other safety features. I find the lane keep assist to be excellent when cruising, applying gentle torque on the steering wheel to guide you, and of course the lane departure warning that vibrates and applies opposite torque on the steering wheel if you cross a line without signalling or indeed vibrates if it feels you are not positively controlling the car. The blind spot protection is excellent and very useful and the cross traffic monitor combined with the wide angle camera view is fantastic when reversing out of the driveway or a parking bay. Granted, the traffic sign recognition is not really up to scratch - it reads the variable speed limit 60 signs as 80 on the M25 and also sometimes misses signs that I've seen! Overall though, I think the technology on board is very well implemented and very easy to use and makes the car much safer. It feels a world apart from my previous 9G EX.
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Last edited by CivicCliff; 5th February 2018 at 11:21.
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post #7 of 68 (permalink) Old 6th February 2018, 12:32
 
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So my 10 pennies to the conversation.
With the Prestige and CVT the ACC coast downhill and will not brake until I manually brake or a car / obstacle gets in front.
Long hold on the - button so it changes 10 kmh or more it will brake to set speed but then start coasting again in a downhill scenario.
I drive through Stockholm daily to and from work and there are a lot of traffic so I tend to use 1 or 2 bar length to the car in front. Mostly 2 bars and then the cut in protection can be a bit to protective, making the car behind, that is often to near my back end, almost hit me. I've learned to put my foot gently on the accelerator to negate the effect when I notice it starting to happen and there are no danger to do it.
Also with the 4 or more lane roads that have fairly narrow lanes, I feel that ACC has trouble knowing which lane I am in and which the cars next to me are in so it brakes for "no reason" from time to time.
I will try and disable the the cut in protection to see how it differs in that regard.

Several times I have gotten warnings for either to much rain or no radar due to snow or dirt on the panel in front of the radar and the ACC stopped working. Even after I have wiped off snow or dirt from the radar panel it still would not work until it had dried a bit in my garage. That is kind of annoying and a poor implementation for the conditions we have in colder or dirtier parts of the world.
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post #8 of 68 (permalink) Old 6th February 2018, 12:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G4il1 View Post
With the Prestige and CVT the ACC coast downhill and will not brake until I manually brake or a car / obstacle gets in front..
But if the hill is steep enough, does the car then coast to a speed higher than what you have set as the CC speed? Mine will brake to keep the speed down, but the 9G that I had on loan just exceeded my set speed when coasting by 15MPH until I ran out of hill.
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post #9 of 68 (permalink) Old 6th February 2018, 12:55
 
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It will just keep accelerating over the speed I have set and beyond.
Like the 9G you had as a loaner.

On long hill road I tried it on last fall I went 20-25 km/h over the set speed before I manually braked.

Last edited by G4il1; 6th February 2018 at 12:58.
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post #10 of 68 (permalink) Old 6th February 2018, 12:58
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M8TJT View Post
but the 9G that I had on loan just exceeded my set speed when coasting by 15MPH until I ran out of hill.

9G Cruise control has no ability to use the brakes, its only an engine system and can only reduce / close the throttle, which actually now a days a closed throttle is not actually true, because with drive by wire the engine just stops injecting fuel and actually open the throttle to allow air in to help reduce friction / help reduce emissions. lack of engine braking is the normal complaints of modern engines.


As 10G CC is all part of ACC, it will use the brakes to control any over speed whether there is a target or not.
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post #11 of 68 (permalink) Old 6th February 2018, 13:09
 
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As 10G CC is all part of ACC, it will use the brakes to control any over speed whether there is a target or not.
Well then there is something wrong with mine because it does not do that unless there is a car / obstacle in front as described above.
Can it be a difference between the manual and CVT?
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post #12 of 68 (permalink) Old 6th February 2018, 13:15
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Yes, that's exactly what I found. But as I said before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M8TJT View Post
My 10G however applies the brakes, and I find that it seems to be controlling the speed too tightly and tends to 'hunt' a bit normally, accelerate, brake, accelerate, brake etc. It's the braking that annoys me, just let it roll.
That's even if the 'accelerate' part is a downhill coast. It needs a bit less tight control of the overspeed breaking.
Mine even displays the same on the flat, with the accelerate phase engine rather than gravity generated.
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post #13 of 68 (permalink) Old 6th February 2018, 14:18
 
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Originally Posted by G4il1 View Post
Well then there is something wrong with mine because it does not do that unless there is a car / obstacle in front as described above.
Can it be a difference between the manual and CVT?

Actually owners manual states that set speed can be exceeded on a steep down hill slope, thou that's not what I thought I felt.

"On roads with steep downhill sections, as the set vehicle speed can be exceeded by coasting. In such cases, ACC will not apply the brakes to maintain the set speed."


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post #14 of 68 (permalink) Old 6th February 2018, 15:13
 
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I would have expected it not to apply brakes on a downhill slope, too much chance of overcooking the brakes.

My only other car with an automatic, does slow down downhill, but by downshifting never by applying the break (different manufacturer). If the hill is steep enough it will exceed the set speed by more than 10kph. Given that the CVT in the Honda has next to no engine breaking, I would expect it to speed up quite a bit downhill.

My 10G is a 6MT, also no hills nearby to test it out.
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post #15 of 68 (permalink) Old 6th February 2018, 15:29
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Originally Posted by Steve_m View Post
Actually owners manual states that set speed can be exceeded on a steep down hill slope, thou that's not what I thought I felt.
I went out again this afternoon and it was deffo braking to slow it down to the set speed regardless of what the handbook says. I suppose it might be like that on a really steep hill but I haven't tried.
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post #16 of 68 (permalink) Old 6th February 2018, 16:54
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I hope the dealers in hill country keep brake pads in stock
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post #17 of 68 (permalink) Old 6th February 2018, 22:52 Thread Starter
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I wonder if the Type R inherited the ACC from the 9G Type R and is coasting because of that - it only brakes when I set the speed lower with 10 km/h steps.
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post #18 of 68 (permalink) Old 7th February 2018, 04:45
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One of the first things my ADI said, many years ago, is that you use the brakes to slow the car, not the gearbox, because brakes are cheaper to replace.

If you dropped a cog to slow the car on the AD test - fail
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post #19 of 68 (permalink) Old 7th February 2018, 06:57
 
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Quote:
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One of the first things my ADI said, many years ago, is that you use the brakes to slow the car, not the gearbox, because brakes are cheaper to replace.

If you dropped a cog to slow the car on the AD test - fail
I'm going to have to disagree with your ADI there. If you know your route, there is no need for braking, and Rev matched downshifts while coasting to a slower speed should not add wear and tear to the engine or gearbox. I have yet to wear out a synchro or replace a clutch plate for that matter.

Had to sell my civic in the UK, we moved out of the country, but after 3 years and 36k miles on it. On inspection 90% brake pad life left, they thought I'd changed them at some point. There's even a post on here where I caught the infamous rear caliper sticking early. Doesn't get much worse than mostly in town driving for 3 years and that many miles.

Last edited by peniole; 7th February 2018 at 09:58.
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post #20 of 68 (permalink) Old 7th February 2018, 09:30
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Engine braking doesn't work very well with modern engines anyway, unless you have dump valves to dump the compressed air generated by the compression stroke.
Opinion differs on cog swapping, but my take is that you should always be in the 'right' gear for your road speed which obviously involves changing down as you slow regardless whether or not you are using the engine braking effect.
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