Speakers Speaker/Sub + Head Unit Upgrade - Civinfo
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 25th August 2018, 19:45 Thread Starter
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Question Speaker/Sub + Head Unit Upgrade

Hello hello

I've been browsing the forum recently trying to get some information on this - however all posts look to be for <2015 models (pre-connect+).

I find the sound system a bit lacking in both power, bass and quality - especially when comparing to the sound system in my dads 2007 accord exec. I want to replace the speakers in the car, and install a subwoofer in the boot.

Possibly replace the head unit as well - but here i'm not sure if everything will still work as standard. Meaning the temp readouts, time etc on the i-Mid, steering wheel controls, reverse-cam, USB/HDMI ports in the storage comp. In terms of the head unit, I was looking at the more high-end Pioneer or Kenwood units.

Your recommendations / instructions / opinions are very welcome.
Thank you for taking your time reading this - its much appreciated.

Model Info:
- Civic i-DTEC SR 2016
- Connect+ Android Head Unit
- No Subwoofer
- Definitely not Premium Sound System lol

Just as a warning, I have never done this kind of thing personally, so a complete noob ere lol.

EDIT: I don't want to spend more than 1,5k on all of the equipment. I'm looking for quality and more bass. I want to do this myself.

Last edited by Bartekkk; 25th August 2018 at 21:15. Reason: Added budget (forgot)
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 25th August 2018, 20:26
 
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Hi I think the first thing you have to specify is your budget, there's no point people giving recommendations without one.

Like head units both of these are "high end" but one is 300 pioneer prs80 or the pioneer prs99rs at about 1k.

I have learnt the hard way spending money on the wrong gear and from installing equipment incorrectly, do you plan to do it yourself or have it fitted professionally?

And finally what your expectations are, do you prefer loud or prefer sound quality or a mix of both?

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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 25th August 2018, 21:16 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by nickb913 View Post
Hi I think the first thing you have to specify is your budget, there's no point people giving recommendations without one.

Like head units both of these are "high end" but one is 300 pioneer prs80 or the pioneer prs99rs at about 1k.

I have learnt the hard way spending money on the wrong gear and from installing equipment incorrectly, do you plan to do it yourself or have it fitted professionally?

And finally what your expectations are, do you prefer loud or prefer sound quality or a mix of both?

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I don't want to spend more than 1,5k on all of the equipment. I'm looking for quality and more bass. I want to do this myself.
For the HU - Looked in the range of 600 - 750.
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 25th August 2018, 21:41
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Interested in how this goes.
There is an OEM Sub that fits in the right side of the boot, in the well where the TRK is stored - I think this is part of one of the option packs on the earlier trims, and perhaps the CTR GT? I'm not sure if these can be had aftermarket; I think they may need an additional amp - Perhaps the DSP includes one in the Premium sound pack? I know there is a difference in the audio systems in the CTR.
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 26th August 2018, 09:38
 
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OK, with that budget and that you want loud and clear music I presume you are going to amplify.

In that case I would recommend you get a dsp (digital signal processor) it gives you EQ and time alignment. Depending on the unit, EQ per channel, per driver, 16 band or 32 band or even parametric, 4 channel in 8 channel out some even 12 or 16out.

A dsp will be money better spent than a head unit (with your budget as they can work together but cost is a factor here) and it means you will have full midi screen, steering controls etc.

Sound deadening is often the most overlooked, more sound deadening the better the car will sound.
CLD tiles (aluminium foil with butyl backing) stop vibration and improve bass.
Closed cell foam and mass loaded vinyl block Road noise from outside.

Speakers....

Lots of brand, not worth spending lots if you don't have EQ to correct the sound in the environment or don't have deadening in but..

First question, are you wanting to run 2 way (mid bass and tweeter) or 3 way (mid bass, mid range and tweeter)?
Second, are you fitting them in factory position or planning to make/buy speaker pods

As for what what brand thats a bit harder and depends how much you want to spend.

Amplifiers

A good quality amp will sound the same as any other good quality amp of the same class.

Do you want one or multiple? Where are you planning on fitting them? If space is an issue then one slightly larger amp might be better than multiple. Class d are usually smaller and cooler than AB for the same power output.

Do not buy an amp based on max power as manufacturers lie. Look at the fuse size and fuse size x voltage (14.4 max in a car) = max theoretical power. JL, audison, hertz, old soundstream, genesis, focal, dls, b2 audio list goes on and on are good quality amps to many to list.

Cable

Buy the correct size cable for the size of amp draw from your amplifier.

Don't buy CCA wire it's a con, spend the extra on OFC. If you want cheaper large diameter cable buy welding cable not as flexible but a lot cheaper and BS rated for oil and heat. See below pics for size needed.

Speaker cable I'm using 16awg for 75watt rms for the doors and tweeters. And 12awg for the subwoofer. All OFC.

Always use at the battery with the correct fuse for your max system draw.

Hope this gives you enough to get started.

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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 26th August 2018, 14:07 Thread Starter
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Hi nickb913,

Thank you for the detailed answer - its much appreciated.

I want to use the current factory locations and possibily go 3 way, as they would produce better sound.
In terms of the amplifier, in the boot along with the sub. A single one should do the job I imagine?

Yeah - I would never buy CCA again - seller had advertised full copper where it was aluminium, worst thing ever. Cables is one of those things I don't cheap out on anymore, as they make a difference in many scenarios

I will take a read into amplifiers and dsps now - see what I can come up with and report back.


Thanks again.
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 26th August 2018, 14:36
 
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Not a problem, don't like seeing people waste money, check out diymobileaudio forum lots of good advice over there even though its American still applies here.

For a dsp I would look into the helix, they're meant to be the best on the market, I've got an audison bit ten and only complaint from that would be a little more freedom with the EQ but no issues otherwise from a "budget" dsp.

If your going with a dsp and don't mind diving deeper down the rabbit hole with active filters and such, raw drivers are great value and some of scanspeaks beat or match the ultra high end (sinfoni, brax etc) with a more stomach-able price (still expensive though). I've got faital Pro and tang bang drives but still waiting on the weather to get better and sort out that power cable routing.

Falcon acoustics or loudspeakerfreaks are good sites for raw drivers.

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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 26th August 2018, 14:42
 
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BTW not sure about the 2016 civic but my 2014 only has 2 way speaker locations, might mean you have to either get pods or fabricate some to mount the mid and tweeter

I bought machined metal pods from a guy in Germany, they weren't cheap but should be perfect for my build and might save you some hassle. The guy is on ebay as... seller:valicar-stuttgart

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Edit: more info
This is my boot rack with 2 amps, one 4 channel for mid bass and tweeters and one 2 channel bridged for a subwoofer. The dsp is also connected up bottom left. This goes where the spare wheel should go, might be an option if you don't have or mind losing a spare.
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Last edited by nickb913; 26th August 2018 at 14:55.
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 26th August 2018, 15:14 Thread Starter
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Beast of a setup!
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 27th August 2018, 08:15
 
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does anyone know the part number for the factory sub for mk9 civic?
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 27th August 2018, 18:57
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpurple View Post
does anyone know the part number for the factory sub for mk9 civic?
Can't help on the part number but the factory sub in my 2014 premium sound system isn't worth the space it takes up. Only plays from 60hz up so you don't get a proper subwoofer experience.

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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 29th August 2018, 13:41 Thread Starter
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Out of curiosity, can't find a definitive answer on the forums.

1) Does the 2015+ Head Unit / Connect+ Unit have an external amplifier?
1a) If yes, where is it located?
1b) If yes/no, what are the capabilities of the factory amp, what can it deliver?

Cheers.
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 1st September 2018, 13:19
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartekkk View Post
Out of curiosity, can't find a definitive answer on the forums.

1) Does the 2015+ Head Unit / Connect+ Unit have an external amplifier?
1a) If yes, where is it located?
1b) If yes/no, what are the capabilities of the factory amp, what can it deliver?

Cheers.
From what I've read over on DIYma with the Hondas there, if your car has an external amp the head unit usually puts out a clean balanced signal and it's the amp that does all the processing (EQ and time alignment, crossovers etc).


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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 4th September 2018, 10:55
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpurple View Post
does anyone know the part number for the factory sub for mk9 civic?
#4 39140TV0E01 SPEAKER ASSEMBLY, 20cm

http://admin.parts.ru/upload/epcrus/epc22613.png
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 6th September 2018, 22:45 Thread Starter
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So, after some research and a war with the finance company not letting me do this - I decided to re-finance with my bank. Much better APR and will have the car payed off a year earlier (wish I did this earlier). The finance company has some odd 3 - 5 week process after sending the payment before I am the legal owner, until then I can't start anything

The setup I would like to go for:

Amp: Hertz HCP 4D (4 Channel)
- Channel 1: Front-Left
- Channel 2: Front-Right
- Channel 3: Rear-Right
- Channel 4: Read-Left

DSP: Audison Bit Ten - Read a number of reviews on this one - it sounds like it'll fit nicely into the setup + great price. Helix ones are a tad pricey.
I still need to figure out the outputs on the connect system - so this can change.

Speakers: 2x Hertz Mille Pro MPK 165.3 16.5cm 2 Way Component System - Talked to a couple of people who did sound mods in the past, all of them recommended Hertz speakers.
- Front: Fill go into factory locations
- Rear: Woofer into factory location, tweeter I will install similarly to the front one - except on the pillar (at least that's the plan)

For the main power line - I want to run it overhead as that seems to be easier to do, however a longer run. 0AWG/0Gauge cable, with a ~150A fuse at the battery. This power line will go into a Relay, which will switch power on/off for all components in the boot. This will be controlled by a signal wire from the HU. Unless there is a better way to do it?
This will then flow into a distribution block, then into Amp, Dsp etc.

Speaker wire: 10AWG to the crossovers, 14AWG to the speakers.

At the moment, I will not be putting in a sub-woofer. This is the reason for the AMP above, as I will use the one above to drive the Sub in the future and a new one for the speakers. However this is still just an idea for the future.

I will also get sound deadening materials for the doors and boot area.

Hopefully not making a fool out of myself with the above haha ;D
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 6th September 2018, 23:11
 
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Ditch the rear speakers, the bit ten (while a great dsp) isn't powerfull enough to sort phase and provide enough EQ. I would also use the other 2 channels of the amp bridged to run a subwoofer.

The hertz millies you have said are great I had a chance to listen to them a while ago but were a bit expensive at the time and I went with the esk165.5. I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

Can't fault the amp as I've never used it but I run 2 hertz amps and there great.

0awg cable is rated at 350 amps and is overkill for one 40amp amplifier but better to over do it, also what do you mean run overhead?

I'm using 16awg for all my speakers, 16awg is more than enough for all 4ohm speakers at runs less than 5meters, unless you are running silly power (75wrms isn't). My sub I'm using a 1m run of 12awg for 200wrms 4ohm.

The but ten is designed to use the factory line in, I'm using a SOT lead and have spliced that for the inputs, if I remember I will take a pic of my lead before I fit it tomorrow. That means stock head unit and retain all functionality.

If you are going dsp route then you can also run raw drivers not a component set as you can use electronic crossovers but that's a trip down the rabbit hole lol

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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 6th September 2018, 23:15
 
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There's a pic with some sound deadening in it, it's CLD tiles then MLV and then CCF on top (stock speaker is still in on that photo). Made a world of difference enough for the doors cost me less than 50quid.

I used dodo mat CLD tiles and no brand CCF and MLV from ebay. Will order more down the line for headlining, firewall etc


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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 7th September 2018, 00:08 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickb913 View Post
Ditch the rear speakers, the bit ten (while a great dsp) isn't powerfull enough to sort phase and provide enough EQ. I would also use the other 2 channels of the amp bridged to run a subwoofer.

The hertz millies you have said are great I had a chance to listen to them a while ago but were a bit expensive at the time and I went with the esk165.5. I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

Can't fault the amp as I've never used it but I run 2 hertz amps and there great.

0awg cable is rated at 350 amps and is overkill for one 40amp amplifier but better to over do it, also what do you mean run overhead?

I'm using 16awg for all my speakers, 16awg is more than enough for all 4ohm speakers at runs less than 5meters, unless you are running silly power (75wrms isn't). My sub I'm using a 1m run of 12awg for 200wrms 4ohm.

The but ten is designed to use the factory line in, I'm using a SOT lead and have spliced that for the inputs, if I remember I will take a pic of my lead before I fit it tomorrow. That means stock head unit and retain all functionality.

If you are going dsp route then you can also run raw drivers not a component set as you can use electronic crossovers but that's a trip down the rabbit hole lol

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I see - so essentially run the speakers without the crossovers provided in the package and do the filtering on the dsp itself?
Out of curiosity - what would the removal of rear speakers do to the sound effect - just wondering if it wouldn't sound odd - with nothing coming from the rear of the car.
Overhead - I meant in the headlining and pillars. Just a thought that came across my mind - unless that's a ridiculous idea hehe

Oh wow - 350 amps on 0awg - bloody hell, was slightly mis-informed here then. Was told 180amps max 12vdc.

The sound deadening looks good - might go similar route as well

Thanks again for your advice - its much appreciated.
Must meet up for a pint after I'm done with the installation
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 7th September 2018, 09:12
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Oh wow - 350 amps on 0awg - bloody hell, was slightly mis-informed here then.
There is an awful lot of that on t'internert matey.
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The sound deadening looks good - might go similar route as well
Good plan.
Keep as much of the noise inside the car so that yo don't p off the local residents.
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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 7th September 2018, 09:46 Thread Starter
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There is an awful lot of that on t'internert matey.Good plan.
Keep as much of the noise inside the car so that yo don't p off the local residents.
to p-off my neighbours is exactly what I want to do
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