Other Starter motor and CG 666 failure - Civinfo
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post #1 of 115 (permalink) Old 5th November 2017, 11:25 Thread Starter
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Starter motor and CG 666 failure

The Mrs said the car was making a funny sound when she was starting it yesterday. She’s just tried starting it this morning and the starter is turning but not the engine. There’s a noise that sounds like the teeth have stripped on something. Is it a big job to pull the starter motor out? If it is then the car will be going on a flat bed to a scrap yard.
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post #2 of 115 (permalink) Old 5th November 2017, 14:31
Bye bye Honda...
 
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It looks pretty straightforward and obvious, but I'm worried that your problem might be the flywheel ring gear? Have you tried turning the engine to see if it'll then engage?

Here's a copy/paste from the Honda Civic workshop manual, apologies that the figures didn't copy...



1. Disconnect the negative cable from the battery first, then disconnect the positive cable.

2. Remove the front emblem cover.

3. Disconnect the hood switch connector (A), and remove the harness clamps (B) and water pipe mounting bolts (C).


Open the figure
4. Remove the radiator upper bracket mounting bolts (A), then remove the bulkhead (B).


Open the figure
5. Remove the engine cover.


Open the figure
6. Remove the engine oil pressure switch.

7. Remove the dipstick.

8. Remove the dipstick tube (A).


Open the figure
9. Remove the bolt (B) securing the harness holder, and remove the harness holder clamp (C).
10. Remove the connector bracket (A), then remove the starter protector (B).


Open the figure
11. Disconnect the starter cable (A) from the B terminal, then disconnect the connector (B) from the S terminal.


Open the figure
12. Remove the two bolts securing the starter, then remove the starter.
Installation


1. Install the starter to the engine. Install the starter cable (A) and connector (B). Make sure the starter cable crimped side of the ring terminal is facing out.


Open the figure
2. Install the starter protector (A), then install the connector bracket (B).


Open the figure
3. Install the bolt (A) securing the harness holder, and install the harness holder clamp (B).


Open the figure
4. Install the dipstick tube (C). Use new O-ring (D).

5. Install the dipstick.

6. Install the engine oil pressure switch.

7. Install the engine cover.


Open the figure
8. Install the bulkhead (A), then install the radiator upper bracket mounting bolts (B).


Open the figure
9. Apply body paint to the bulkhead mounting bolts.

10. Connect the hood switch connector (A), and install the harness clamps (B) and water pipe mounting bolts (C).


Open the figure
11. Install the front emblem cover.

12. Connect the positive cable to the battery first, then connect the negative cable.

13. Start the engine to make sure the starter works properly.

14. Set the clock.

15. Do the power window control unit reset procedure.
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post #3 of 115 (permalink) Old 5th November 2017, 14:38 Thread Starter
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Cheers Jon, doesn’t sound too bad to pull the starter out. I’ll get it to the garage down the road tomorrow morning and see what they find. If it is the flywheel ring gear I’ll scrap the car. It has a CG666 kit fitted with a lifetime warranty but the labour costs to pull it out will mean it’s not worth it.
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post #4 of 115 (permalink) Old 5th November 2017, 14:53
Bye bye Honda...
 
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Fingers crossed then!
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post #5 of 115 (permalink) Old 5th November 2017, 17:24
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Hmmm, I dont want to alarm you bit didn't someone with a CG clutch recently have issues with the ring gear?

Fingers crossed that yours is a cheap fix.

Do let us know how you get on.
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post #6 of 115 (permalink) Old 5th November 2017, 17:27
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post #7 of 115 (permalink) Old 5th November 2017, 17:44 Thread Starter
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I’ll get it to a garage in the morning, if it is the flywheel it would appear that the clamping force isn’t the issue but the SMF itself. I might pay to have the clutch and flywheel removed just to take up CG on their lifetime offer. I may then order a standard DMF from Honda, measure it up and if it’s a different size or the ring gear is different return the 666 to CG for a full refund.
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post #8 of 115 (permalink) Old 5th November 2017, 22:14
Bye bye Honda...
 
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It's easy to check the ring gear... simply rotate the engine a little (by bumping it in gear) just so the flywheel turns a little. The starter will engage OK once you've moved the damaged section past the engagement point. But - given the precedent - get the garage to check the ring gear once the starter is removed... it's a pretty easy task.
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post #9 of 115 (permalink) Old 6th November 2017, 16:21 Thread Starter
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Not good news, my mechanic has inspected the starter and ring gear and the problem is there’s no ring gear. It’s broken into chunks and a chunk has blown a hole through the bell housing. Spoke to CG who basically said to do one, they are blaming the starter motor despite my mechanic saying that it’s their flywheel that’s at fault. My mechanic is ringing CG himself to fight my case but the guy I spoke to really didn’t seem to care, kept repeating he’s an engineer and he knows more than a mechanic.
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post #10 of 115 (permalink) Old 6th November 2017, 16:40
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Oh gawd, not again

I feel for you buddy and hope you get it sorted.
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post #11 of 115 (permalink) Old 6th November 2017, 17:02 Thread Starter
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Just come off the phone to my mechanic. He can’t believe what an arrogant **** the guy at CG is. He was not getting anywhere because the guy kept repeating “you tell me what’s failed” but wouldn’t listen to the mechanic telling him what’s failed. The mechanic is taking the flywheel down to South Wales pistons, along with the starter, to get an independent report. He is also going to take pics and a video with a Snap On cam with everything together as he thinks the ring gears teeth are too small and not fully engaging, hence the tips have fatigued and broken off. The guy at CG apparently didn’t seem so sure of himself when the mechanic told him about getting the flywheel professionally inspected and a report completed by a specialist company.
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post #12 of 115 (permalink) Old 6th November 2017, 19:51
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I guessed that would be the reaction at CG to be honest.

Wouldn't listen to anything which suggested his 'design' was anything less than perfect when I said the hydraulics couldn't handle the clamping strength of the pressure plate - this was simply to try and resolve gearchanges, before 'my problem'.

Damper bypass eased my reason to visit him, which he couldn't get his head around.

I never saw the outcome of mine, but there was no mention of pieces and broken bell housing, just failed teeth.

This will be an interesting thread!!

Al.
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post #13 of 115 (permalink) Old 10th November 2017, 11:19
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I very nearly got their clutch installed, but went for 325 Honda install as I do a lot of mileage.... seems I dodged a bullet.
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post #14 of 115 (permalink) Old 10th November 2017, 11:32
Bye bye Honda...
 
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Any update, @fatwelshboy ?
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post #15 of 115 (permalink) Old 10th November 2017, 14:43 Thread Starter
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The mechanic will kindly do the clutch and flywheel swap for £150 so I’m going to get a used OEM clutch and DMF off eBay for around £100. I’ll take the mods, that I still have the stock parts for, off the car and get rid at webuyanycar.com. The starter motor is fine so won’t be swapping it out.

I should add the car will be put back on its standard map if Celtic still have it.

Last edited by fatwelshboy; 10th November 2017 at 14:47.
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post #16 of 115 (permalink) Old 10th November 2017, 14:47
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post #17 of 115 (permalink) Old 10th November 2017, 15:09 Thread Starter
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Celtic have my map and the company that flashed the car will flash it with the stock map for £48. I think I’ll have it done as there’s no way a OEM clutch will hold up if the car is test driven. The alternative is to pay CG £240+VAT for another SMF. I’d rather eat a ***** sandwich after the way they spoke to me and the mechanic.
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post #18 of 115 (permalink) Old 10th November 2017, 15:47
Bye bye Honda...
 
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A sad tale. Sorry.
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post #19 of 115 (permalink) Old 10th November 2017, 16:28 Thread Starter
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It’s not ideal but it’s not the end of the world. Driving around in the new car makes it feel a whole lot better.



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post #20 of 115 (permalink) Old 10th November 2017, 18:49
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A bit basic and utilitarian - come down from the Civic, but I suppose it'll do - colour's nice anyway ....

Al.
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