Performance No boost after glow plug and air filter change - Civinfo
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post #1 of 54 (permalink) Old 28th June 2019, 04:58 Thread Starter
 
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Unhappy No boost after glow plug and air filter change

Hi All,

So my 2009 2.2 diesel civic is starting to give me some problems after 139K reliable miles.

I was driving and the engine management light came on and the car went in to limp mode. I pulled over and turned the car off and on again and this brought the performance back but the light would stay on. Went to my usual garage and they said it was the glow plugs, the error code was P1384 glow plug circuit malfunction.

So glow plugs were changed and I also had the air filter changed as the old one was looking rather dirty. Drove home perfectly fine no warning lights and performance is back

Next morning I went out and there is just no boost, no warning lights at all but it's like my turbo has gone on holiday overnight.

Any ideas where I go from here what could be the problem?
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post #2 of 54 (permalink) Old 28th June 2019, 09:15
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If this really is the turbo failing then it's strange that you aren't getting the diagnostic trouble code for low boost pressure, plus the engine warning light coming on again. Nevertheless, it's probably worth checking that a boost hose hasn't come off and, if possible, that the intercooler hasn't split.

Could be fuel? Weirdly, bouts of low fuel pressure can often cause the glowplug warning light to come on... when was the fuel filter last changed and is it the correct OEM (Denso) part?

If you have access to an OBD2 code reader then check for 'pending' error codes... even if the ECU hasn't confirmed an error condition and not yet put up the warning, often a new problem will have been noted. Most code readers will also display live data, which is really useful for diagnosing turbo/boost problems... you can also read the MAP sensor value changing as you drive around and - depending on load and other conditions - you should see the Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) soar well up past the 100kPa (1 bar) value as the turbo kicks in.

If you haven't got an OBD2 code reader then get one ASAP... the ELM327 types are available for less than £3 and some of the free Android apps are so good (I use Torque and Car Scanner, depending if I'm just reading codes or if I'm logging data).
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post #3 of 54 (permalink) Old 28th June 2019, 10:44 Thread Starter
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Hi Jon,

Thanks for the feedback.

I should have probably included that about 3 weeks ago I was massively stressed and without thinking I filled up with the wrong fuel, I put a tank full of petrol in my diesel and then proceeded to drive it about 4 miles before it came to a halt at the side of the road. The fuel was then pumped out and I had the fuel filter changed with a genuine Honda one. So these problems are ultimately my own making.

When I went to the garage to have the fuel filter replaced it was showing two fault codes P1237 - Boost pressure lower than expected and P1384 - Glow plug circuit malfunction. The fuel filter was replaced and both codes cleared.

The following day the P1384 - Glow plug circuit malfunction code re-appeared this time the glow plugs were replaced and the code was cleared. At this visit to the garage, I also had the air filter replaced not that it should make a difference to this issue, since then no warning lights have come on, the car was fine on the way back from the garage. Only the following day did the performance issues reappear but this time with no warning lights.

I'll purchase one of the code readers you've mentioned as it saves the time and cost of going to the garage to get them to read them for me.

With this added background where do you think the fault is likely to lie?
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post #4 of 54 (permalink) Old 28th June 2019, 11:21
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"You should have probably included"? Ye gods and little fishes. That info was the probably single most important bit you could have given.
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post #5 of 54 (permalink) Old 28th June 2019, 13:34
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It would have been good to have known of the cross-fuelling, but doesn't alter the need to monitor pending fault codes and to read the real-time data, logging if necessary (the free Android 'Car Scanner' app is excellent for this, in conjunction with an ELM327)

If anything, petrol might have damaged the fuel pump and injectors, so low fuel pressure codes P1065 and P0087 might pop up. I doubt that petrol in the fuel could have damaged the turbo though, and definitely not the glowplugs. Bit of a mystery!
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post #6 of 54 (permalink) Old 29th June 2019, 18:55 Thread Starter
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Hi Jon,

So my ELM327 has now arrived and I've downloaded the Car Scanner app. I've got it connected up and clicked on the 'Diagnostic trouble codes' icon but it returns no fault codes. Are you able to help me through the steps I need to take to help diagnose the problem please.

Many thanks.
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post #7 of 54 (permalink) Old 29th June 2019, 20:47
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That was quick! Seeing as how it was your first concern, I'd suggest starting with checking the boost, so you need to connect the app then open up 'all sensors' and find the MAP sensor value on the table... as you drive around you should see this figure vary considerably and rise to give a peak MAP of around 190kPa under high load (maximum boost on these is 0.93 bar), it may be useful to log it as a graph so you can examine it properly to confirm the highs and lows (I can't remember how to do this, but it was easy).

A common thing that can kill boost is the EGR valve sticking open. Have you ever cleaned it?
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post #8 of 54 (permalink) Old 29th June 2019, 21:03 Thread Starter
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The boost is not kicking in at all so what youíve said about EGR valve sounds like something to look at. Iíve cleaned it once a good few years ago. Iíve got a spare gasket so it could be a job for tomorrow. I think there is a how to for it.
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post #9 of 54 (permalink) Old 30th June 2019, 08:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remedy02 View Post
The boost is not kicking in at all so what youíve said about EGR valve sounds like something to look at. Iíve cleaned it once a good few years ago. Iíve got a spare gasket so it could be a job for tomorrow. I think there is a how to for it.
Don't waste time over-cleaning the pipework, just make sure the valve is shutting fully without delay when released (ideally you need to be applying a vacuum to test this)... https://www.civinfo.com/forum/how-gu...egr-valve.html
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post #10 of 54 (permalink) Old 4th July 2019, 11:59 Thread Starter
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Quick update, the vacuum test kit arrived today. I've tested the EGR valve and it's holding the vacuum fine no leaks, so I believe that means it's working ok. I'll give it a clean and put it back in the car and then hook up the ELM327 and have a look at the MAP sensor.
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post #11 of 54 (permalink) Old 4th July 2019, 12:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remedy02 View Post
Quick update, the vacuum test kit arrived today. I've tested the EGR valve and it's holding the vacuum fine no leaks, so I believe that means it's working ok. I'll give it a clean and put it back in the car and then hook up the ELM327 and have a look at the MAP sensor.
It's a sensible test to check that it holds vac, but it's still necessary to check that the valve opens and fully closes smoothly when the vac is spplied. Until you do this you cannot be sure that it's working ok.
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post #12 of 54 (permalink) Old 4th July 2019, 12:16 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_G View Post
It's a sensible test to check that it holds vac, but it's still necessary to check that the valve opens and fully closes smoothly when the vac is spplied. Until you do this you cannot be sure that it's working ok.
Edit: I've gone back and applied the vacuum and can see the valve is opening and closing smoothly underneath.

Last edited by Remedy02; 4th July 2019 at 12:34.
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post #13 of 54 (permalink) Old 4th July 2019, 13:37 Thread Starter
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EGR valve no back in the car, still no boost

Have been around the block and recorded the MAP sensor values as suggested. I've attached the image below.

It seems to hit a peak and then drops off quickly.


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post #14 of 54 (permalink) Old 4th July 2019, 15:33
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It is boosting, although not huge amounts. ' Around the block' suggests lots of on/off throttle, it'd be a better test to run it up a long hill under extended wide open throttle at mid-revs where the turbo might be more likely to operate flat out.
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post #15 of 54 (permalink) Old 4th July 2019, 15:47
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Could totally be way off, have you checked the pipes going into the intercooler (underneath battery etc). I once had an issue where I was getting no turbo as there was a split in one of them.
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post #16 of 54 (permalink) Old 4th July 2019, 15:59 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamsnake View Post
Could totally be way off, have you checked the pipes going into the intercooler (underneath battery etc). I once had an issue where I was getting no turbo as there was a split in one of them.
Interesting, I had the fuel filter changed only a few days before this issue. Is it possible those pipes could have been touch/moved as part of that work?
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post #17 of 54 (permalink) Old 4th July 2019, 18:57
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Definitely. Battery and air filter come out for a fuel filter swap.
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post #18 of 54 (permalink) Old 7th July 2019, 17:39 Thread Starter
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Been out again for another test with my foot planted on a longer stretch of road and the results are below. Still no boost unfortunately, it seems the pressure doesn't pass 125 kPa.




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post #19 of 54 (permalink) Old 7th July 2019, 18:03
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Unless I'm mistaken, 125kPa is 18psi? What's the pressure reading at idle then full throttle whilst being driven?

Are you sure a pipe hasn't been knocked off the boost control solenoid? Loose intercooler pipe?
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post #20 of 54 (permalink) Old 7th July 2019, 18:09 Thread Starter
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Hi mate,

thanks for the prompt reply, the pressure at idle is around 99kPa I believe, at full throttle it's not going past 125kPa.


I'm not sure where to look for the "boost control solenoid? Loose intercooler pipe?" are there any diagrams you can point me towards please?

I've checked the two pipes that go in and out of the air filter box and they look fine and are secure.


Thanks.
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