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Exhaust Manifold Swap Hours Labour?

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28K views 226 replies 11 participants last post by  Neil11 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi all, got a split manifold on my Civic. Struggling to find a garage to do it, Honda state it's around a 5 hour job, so £60 +VAT per hour. And they could run into trouble and prolong the job at my expense. But I've heard people saying it's a 10 hour job.

I had a garage here in Leicester "Collingwood Motors" told me to leave the car with them on Tuesday at 10:30AM and it'll be done on Wednesday. Rang them up on Wednesday, didn't even begin the job and made up lots of excuses under the sun as to why they didn't do it, such as having a lift broken and their mechanic was in "Spain" and they only just found out about it. :lol: Must of thought I came down in the last rain storm. Needless to say I went straight there and took my parts and car back. Time wasters, didn't even have the decency to ring me and tell me it was on the back burner. Gloating to me two seconds after making the excuses that their other jobs are all now complete, and my car will be started on Friday, so took my car off me and wanted to have it until Friday, probably Monday as I don't see them getting work done on the weekend.

This is why I do my own work on my vehicles.

Is it hard to do the manifold? I have plenty of tools and an engine hoist. Might just crack on it myself. I ain't spending £600 in labour when I can do it myself. I lost £300+ just leaving my car with the first set of mechanics, in wages.

Anyone on here done the job and got a run through of what I need to do and expect. I won't be dropping the subframe, I'll just remove the engine from the mounts and move it with the hoist.

Edit: Honda want £605 in labour it's a 5 hour labour job. A garage in Leicester said about £360, but if they have any problems I'll be paying extra. A mechanic near me said he had one, he only charged £450 but will never touch one again. He said he spent two days on it and didn't get back a lot of the time spent on the vehicle. And I should probably do it myself.

I can see why the previous owner got shot of it. Hard to find someone to even tackle the job, I've been in touch with 10+ mechanics all of them don't want the job, or say something like can't get it in for three weeks, in other words they don't want the job.

I think the previous owner even had a crack at the job himself or stripped it all down looking if the manifold was split. Always dubious when they accept first offer way below the asking price.
 
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#2 ·
There is an Ebay listing for new single piece manifold for £80 and the listing stated to contact them for fitting price. They do it supplied and fitted for £300 which I thought was pretty good.

Down side is the place is in Selby so not that local.

Listing is https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EXHAUST-...:Civic&hash=item2ecb165909:g:2yUAAMXQC-tTDmK3

At least they should know what they are doing.

Let us know how you get on.
 
#3 ·
GIANT POST ALERT!!!

Copied from the official Honda workshop manual...



Turbocharger and Exhaust Manifold Removal and Installation
Exploded View




Open the figure











Open the figure
Removal

1. Remove the engine undercover.

2. Drain the engine coolant.

3. Remove the under-cowl panel.

4. Remove the air cleaner housing assembly.

5. Remove the engine cover.



Open the figure
6. Remove the air flow tube.



Open the figure
7. Remove the two bolts (A) securing the brake fluid tank bracket.



Open the figure
8. Remove the bolt (B) securing the heat shield.

9. Remove the A/C line clamp from the bracket.



Open the figure
10. Raise the vehicle on the hoist to full height.

11. Remove the catalytic converter/exhaust pipe A assembly.



Open the figure
12. Remove the heat shields.



Open the figure
13. Loosen the bands (A) securing the turbocharger outlet hose and intercooler intake hose, and remove the intercooler intake hose (B), then remove the intercooler intake pipe mounting bolts (C).



Open the figure
14. Remove the intercooler intake pipe bracket (D), then remove the intercooler intake pipe (E).

15. Remove the turbocharger outlet hose.



Open the figure
16. Remove the intermediate shaft.

17. Lower the vehicle on the hoist.

18. Remove the three nuts (A), then remove the warm-up catalytic converter (B) from under the vehicle.



Open the figure
19. Remove the air flow pipe bracket (B), then remove the air flow pipe A.



Open the figure
20. Remove the breather hose (A) and vacuum hoses (B).



Open the figure
21. Remove the vacuum line (C) from the cylinder head cover.

22. Remove three bolts securing the cover.



Open the figure
23. Remove the sealing bolt (A) and water bypass hose (B).



Open the figure
24. Raise the vehicle on the hoist to full height.

25. Remove the turbocharger bracket (A), then remove the oil bypass pipe (B).



Open the figure
26. Remove the cover (A), then remove the exhaust joint (B).



Open the figure
27. Remove the turbocharger assembly, then seal the air inlet, air outlet, oil line hole, and water line hole with tape.

NOTE:
To avoid damaging the turbocharger.
Do not turn the actuator rod adjust nut.
Do not touch the impeller.



Open the figure
28. Remove the breather pipe (A), air flow pipe B, and water bypass pipe (C).



Open the figure
29. Remove the exhaust manifold.



Open the figure
Installation

1. Install the exhaust manifold (A) with a new gasket (B) and new self-locking nuts (C), and tighten the nuts in a crisscross pattern in two or three steps, beginning with the inner nut.



Open the figure
2. Install the water bypass pipe (A), air flow pipe B, and breather pipe (C) with new gaskets (D).



Open the figure
3. Pour new engine oil into turbocharger oil line.

4. Install the turbocharger assembly (A) with a new gasket (B).

NOTE:
To avoid damaging the turbocharger.
Do not turn the actuator rod adjust nut.
Do not touch the impeller.



Open the figure
5. Install the exhaust joint (A) with new gasket (B), then install the cover (C).



Open the figure
6. Check the bolt (A) and oil bypass pipe (B) for clogged. If they are clogged clean or replace the bolt and/or pipe.



Open the figure
7. Install the oil bypass pipe with new gaskets (C) and new washers (D).

8. Install the turbocharger bracket (E).

9. Lower the vehicle on the hoist.

10. Install the sealing bolt (A) with new washers (B).



Open the figure
11. Install the water bypass hose (C).
12. Install the exhaust manifold cover.



Open the figure
13. Install the vacuum line (A) to the cylinder head cover.



Open the figure
14. Install breather hose (B) and vacuum hoses (C).
15. Install the air flow pipe A with new gasket (B), then install the air flow pipe bracket (C).



Open the figure
16. Install the warm-up catalytic converter (A) with new gasket (B).



Open the figure
17. Raise the vehicle on the hoist to full height.

18. Install the intermediate shaft.

19. Install the turbocharger outlet hose, and align the mark (A) on the hose with the pointer (B) on the turbocharger, then secure the hose with the band.



Open the figure
20. Install the intercooler intake pipe (A) to the turbocharger outlet hose (B), then install the intercooler intake pipe bracket (C).



Open the figure
21. Loosely tighten the intercooler intake pipe mounting bolts (D). Align the mark (E) on the intercooler intake pipe and the mark (F) on the turbocharger outlet hose, and slide the turbocharger outlet hose over the intercooler intake pipe until the hose end contact the bulge (G).

22. Tighten the intercooler intake pipe mounting bolts, and secure the turbocharger outlet hose with the band (H), then install the intercooler intake hose (I), and secure the hose with band (J).
23. Install the heat shields.



Open the figure
24. Install the catalytic converter/exhaust pipe A assembly (A). Use new gaskets (B) and new self locking nuts (C).



Open the figure
25. Lower the vehicle on the hoist.

26. Install the A/C line clamp to the bracket.



Open the figure
27. Install the bolt (A) securing the heat shield.



Open the figure
28. Install the two bolts (B) securing the brake fluid tank bracket.
29. Install the air flow tube.



Open the figure
30. Install the engine cover.



Open the figure
31. Install the air cleaner housing assembly.

32. Install the under-cowl panel.

33. Install the engine undercover.

34. Refill the expansion tank with engine coolant, and bleed air from the cooling system with the heater valve open.
 
#4 ·
It's a big job that can turn nasty if studs break off, which is why I never bothered to replace mine when I knew it was leaking... Once it got hot you couldn't really tell and diesel exhaust fumes are nowhere near as dangerous as petrol exhaust fumes.
 
#6 · (Edited)
They don't snap as easy as people claim. I had a 2001 Puma engine and 2001 Fiesta engine, I removed both catalytic converters from the engines and they were well older than the Civic and never had issues. Taken the headers and cats off Mercedes as well and never had an issue. If you're using a massive breaker bar and your socket isn't on correctly, then yes you can snap them easily. A lot of the times the studs will come out with the bolt.

I'd rather not have raw diesel exhaust fumes coming into my cabin. I come home after a long drive coughing my lungs up. There's carbon monoxide in diesel fumes as well.

I have a engineer that'll come out and drill & tap the exhaust studs if they snap anyway. Had him do it in an engine bay of a Mercedes A140 on the inlet manifold before, so should be a walk in the park for him on a Civic.
 
#5 · (Edited)
I have the file with pictures on the job. It's just the weather forecast for rain putting me off.

I don't mind paying the £360 labour but their reviews on Google say that they doubled the price on them with no dictum from the owner of the vehicle.

The one I have with the pictures I'll print out. It has all the information as for torque specs etc.

I'll buy a Gazebo tomorrow and crack on with it. I'm just being lazy not doing it myself. I have tools and I've done much, much more complex things on vehicles before. BMW 120D clutch and flywheel on a driveway and a Puma conversion on a Fiesta 1.25 a couple years back. And timing belts and water pumps. Word of advice only buy OEM water pumps, the cheap water pumps from euro car parts are lucky to last a year before the bearings fail. I'll be doing the one on my Civic soon as it's never been changed.
 
#7 ·
In the meantime leave the air control on recirculation so you don't get fumes in the cabin.

Looking forward to a good write up and as I'm only in Nottingham, I'll pop it down for a manifold change once you practiced on yours. :grin2:
 
#8 · (Edited)
It still comes in the cabin on recirc, just not to an extent as it would.

:lol: I don't think I'll do a write up on it, it's fairly complex and takes double the time to write up and document the process with pictures. I'll probably post pictures of the exhaust manifold split.

I've pulled the beauty cover off the top of the engine and the injectors are all dry as a bone. I've looked for smoke on start up, I have none. But can smell diesel fumes as if I was stood at the back of the car with my nose to the exhaust tip under the bonnet.

I'm hoping I can move the engine with one of these: https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke-cec500ds-dual-hook-enginegearbox-suppo/ Remove the mount and swing it forward whilst moving the manifold out, if not I'll dig out my engine hoist from the shed.

I'll rather spend the £360 on tools than to line a garage's pockets that probably won't do as good of a job as I will anyway. And most of them don't honour their work with any kind of warranty.

It's a right royal PITA to find a mechanic even willing to consider the job. And the rest don't have the heart to let you know they don't want it and just say they're full for 2-3 weeks.
 
#17 ·
...I've looked for smoke on start up, I have none. But can smell diesel fumes as if I was stood at the back of the car with my nose to the exhaust tip under the bonnet.weeks.
So you don't have the classic giveaway of a cracked i-CDTi exhaust manifold... are you absolutely sure that the exhaust fumes are from a cracked manifold? Mine was pretty obviously leaking on a cold start-up but I never had the serious problem with fumes getting in the cabin that you've described. Have you even taken off the heat shield and used an illuminated mirror to confirm that the exhaust fumes ARE coming from a manifold crack? It's a major job to be undertaking without a positive diagnosis!

... I don't think I'll do a write up on it, it's fairly complex and takes double the time to write up and document the process with pictures. I'll probably post pictures of the exhaust manifold split...
That's a bit mean. You're spending a lot of time posting in this thread and quite a few forum members are offering advice.

Until recently, at least, Honda were still replacing manifolds for free under goodwill. Worth asking?
 
#10 · (Edited)
Course it's just my laziness. But I'm going to crack on with it tomorrow. I've now realised I'm missing the washers for the turbo banjo and I need to grab some washers for the coolant plug and the transmission drain.

No way are the mechanics doing a good job on my car with all the hours and work. They won't even put new fluids in, they'll just reuse the ones in there. And I see that garage with the quoted £360 doubling the price. I ain't spending £600 on labour for a £2,000 car.

I'll be down Honda on Saturday for transmission oil as I know Honda gearboxes (especially autos) hate being on anything but Honda's oil. I'll get the coolant from Parkers with my trade discount and my washers if they have them in stock, if not I'll leave the turbo banjo off until probably Monday unless Honda have them in stock, which I very much doubt. Interestingly the Honda guide doesn't have no mention of moving the engine like someone on YouTube said. But we'll see, and it'll be kept as a consideration during the job.
 
#11 ·
When I attempted mine i failed im sad to say as there’s no room to get at anything on stands on a driveway. In the end i took it to an independent garage Birmingham way called midland honda specialists. A small friendly place and when i went around to see them on day 2 they had the car high up on ramps and the manifold was off but interestingly so was the front subframe and when I asked why the guy said it was almost impossible without removing it as no room to work
 
#13 · (Edited)
It's a job for Tuesday now. I've been to Honda and ordered everything I need. They said it'll all be in on Tuesday.

I'm just going to get some seat belts cut up and use them to move the engine on my hoist. It isn't a problem for me, a bit more labour but I ain't paying for it doing it myself so it isn't an issue.

Even if I spend three days on it, I know the job is 100% done correctly and how I want it doing. Not skimping and cutting corners to do it faster and reusing all the old stuff then having constant oil leaks. Mine is a low mileage Type S example with no oil loss or leaks.

I did a rear wheel drive BMW 120D on a driveway in January of this year. It took a little longer than I'd of liked and it was a lot of cursing, but I got the job done. Most people would of caved in on the first day. I'd rather spend the labour costs back into the vehicle. I've got all the gaskets and I'll replace the turbo banjo bolts & washers. I've ordered new gearbox oil as well as I'm removing the drivers side drive shaft.
 
#16 · (Edited)
Well dropping the subframe is more hassle than it's worth removing the steering rack etc then another £40-£50 getting it tracked.

I'm just bothered about stuff needing replacing as I'm stripping, such as the engine mounts if they're cracked I'll replace them straight away and wouldn't put it back together until they arrive from Honda. It's the main hurdle with working on vehicles, you never know what needs replacing until you start messing. I try to avoid stripping stuff unless I really have to for this reason.

I'll drop some pictures when I tackle it on Tuesday. I've looked through the service manual and bought more than I should need, which is the best way. If my turbo has any oil around the intercooler etc it'll be straight down to Midlands Turbos for a full rebuild. I do all preventative maintenance whilst doing a repair on my vehicles. If I do a clutch I do the driveshaft seals and rear main seal, for example.

But the turbo doesn't make any strange noises or smoke when it's on boost or cold engine. I had a BMW with turbo seals failed smoked the whole driveway out every time I cold started it.
 
#19 ·
That's what I would expect. The leak should be obvious, given that a lot seems to be getting into the cabin and apparently even overcoming the ventilation system recirculation mode. I never suffered that, and mine emitted a pretty obvious plume of smoke from the rear of the engine on startup.
 
#22 ·
Sadly been doing way less miles and not really bothered currently about the diesel smell. I was doing high mileage to see a someone in Derby most days, but we've fallen out so I rarely go Derby now. In fact I haven't been there for 2-3 weeks now.

I do about 12 miles a day now and rarely bothered about the diesel smell unless the vents are on or I'm stopped with the driver side window open. The smell is only there when I stop and less MPG but when doing low mileage I don't really care about MPG.

Also Honda parts department are an absolute nightmare, I went to begin on Saturday. But they gave me three studs where the turbo meets the manifold, but never gave me the bolts. So I had to postpone the job and typical Honda the parts department is shut at 12PM & closed until Monday.

I'll probably have a crack at it on Wednesday. Bit of luck I don't require any more new parts, 8AM start should easily see it finished by 9PM. I'll go out and buy a plug in torch as well before starting.
 
#23 ·
Get in touch with the guys at Honda HQ Cannock, they will sort it for you and most likely cheaper than what you have already been quoted. I can't recommend them enough, quick and quality jobs done. will do it on the day they say and the car is usually back with you as soon as the finish (not left till the end of the day when they remember to call you).

Honda HQ - 07572 440106
Wolverhampton Rd
Cheslyn Hay
Walsall
WS6 7HX

best message them on facebook though

https://www.facebook.com/hondarhq/
 
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#25 · (Edited)
Had a little mess around with it today, and realised Honda has given me 24MM hub bolts, the ones on my vehicle are 35MM and Honda state the vehicle doesn't show another type on the computer.

The previous owner knew full well it had a split manifold. Someone has had a shot at it before. Everything I needed to remove had clean bolt heads. Come to the driveshafts and could see where the bolts had been off & on previously, by the locking tab being smashed in on both sides. And someone has kindly written "JAP CRAP" on the sump. So I assume the PO was also a manchild that had a little tantrum when the job was too complicated for him. I'll spray it off with brake cleaner when I do the job.

After my dry run I think I'll be dropping the subframe as well as moving the engine on a hoist. I'll spend 12 hours on it if I have to. I'm going to order a set of plastic trim clips from Cox and try my best to source the new hub nuts as they've been used twice already at least on the drivers side.

Struggling to find anyone that stocks a 35MM hub nut bolt for the front drive shafts. Honda are just messing me around constantly. Must of spent £50 in diesel just going there and back. Stupid stuff I've had to go back for as well, they didn't even think to sell me the triangle gasket where the turbo bolts on & they then gave me new studs for the triangle bit but no bolts. Incompetent to say the least. I wouldn't mind if I was local, it's completely on the opposite side of Leicester to me though.
 
#27 ·
My father has lost his credit cards, but I've sourced hub nuts on eBay. I've opened another bank account so I can open up my own PayPal etc now. Just got to wait 5-7 days for the card to come in the post.

I'm going to see if I can use my friends garage to do the job as well, save me messing round in the rain.
 
#29 ·
As demonstrated by this thread, it's best to pay someone experienced with i-CTDi manifold replacement to do this for you. Or find a way to live with it, which is what I did for about 8 years (I learnt to automatically hit the recirc button when starting from cold and then knock it off once it was warmed up and the leakage was hardly noticeable).
 
#31 ·
Well it would fail if they noticed it! I got away with it for about 8 MOTs at 3 different test stations, mostly because mine didn't leak all that much once it was hot. So I always made sure it was hot and turned up just before the booked time... Never even got a mention!

I feel obliged to point out that I'd never have been this relaxed about a leak on my petrol car, as petrol exhaust is so much nastier in that it contains far, far higher levels of carbon monoxide.
 
#37 · (Edited)
Engine hoist, gearbox oil, two new wheel hub nuts (Honda only had like 24MM bolts listed when they're in fact 35 or 37MM I ordered a new set off eBay) and I'd at least get the manifold gasket to the block OEM from Honda or Cox. Cox sell the whole kit everything you need with bolts etc with the manifold for £379.99 INC VAT. It's on offer from £670. I'm not sure if it's a cast iron redesigned manifold, but that's a LOT cheaper than all the money I spent in Honda dealer going after stupid gaskets. Knowing what I know now, I'd of gone to Cox straight away and saved lots of hassle and money.
I'm going to engine hoist mine and drop the subframe as well. I was looking at the job and the engine is completely sandwiched to the bulkhead.
 
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