Transmission Is this an I-Shift issue or not? - Civinfo
 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 13th July 2010, 15:10 Thread Starter
 
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Is this an I-Shift issue or not?

I've spent the last few days trawling through 60-70 pages of I-Shift threads - all very interesting; but I didn't find what I was looking for!

My I-shift ( 1.8 2007 '07) changes very smoothly, and the shifts are acceptably quick (although I've not experienced any others to compare against). My 'issue' if it can be called that, is that even on a very light throttle, it never shifts up to the next gear untill the revs reach 3,500 - which to me seems to high when you're not 'pressing on'.

As a result I always drive it in manual and only tend to switch to auto for overtaking (when I find the kickdown very useful).

So what's your opinion guys; am I being too finicky, or would you expect the auto to shift up sooner? I know I could take it to my Dealer to check whether I have the latest software but I have very little confidence in them after a completely bungled handover when I bought the car.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 13th July 2010, 16:05
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I think it's an issue.
Mine doesn't do that.
On very light throtle it gears up around 2 200 rev.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 14th July 2010, 06:42
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On the original i-shift (pre 07) the change area was about 2k revs. Come early 2007 they changed this to circa 3k revs, hence a higher Co2 rating from March 07.

If it has had all the upgrades then it should change at about 3k.

I'm wondering whether it has possibly learnt a harsh driving pattern, hence the more sporty late changes, and it may take a while to adjust to a new one?
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 14th July 2010, 08:07
 
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Don't think this is a problem, if you've had the software updates that is...

Mine doesn't change up if i'm pootling, at least not till around 3k or so, unless its a completely LEVEL road and the car is accelerating anyway... if I'm off the gas and rolling (especially from a start) it won't change at all till I give it a boot or flip-shift (my term!)..... going up or down hills on part throttle also interesting as car will change down irrespective of what I want (again unless foot on gas or flip-shifting).. not too much of an issue (its for engine braking) - but there are times when I think I'm better in control as the car revs its t17$ off!!!!

I have noticed, that as I have a pretty "press on" (that's not to say FAST) driving style in it, its adapted to change up pretty late any way, the missus always thinks I'm caning it - shifts for me usually go 1,2,4,6 (if I'm dawdling around the limit at 40) but show it a clear bypass or motorway and the shifts are like 2,3,6 if I get up to 70 from around 30 or so.....

For me where the system usually fails in its "cleverness" is on a bit of road I have to negotiate almost every day... you stop at a roundabout, with a slight incline.... if you don't stop, this is pretty decent, the car will gear down a bit, then you go, and by the time your over the other side (now going DOWNHILL) it will still change... however most of the time, you have to stop at the roundabout, and when you set off, even when you get the other side on the downhill bit, you're doing 5k revs in 2nd till the car realises its going to probably kill itself or the occupants and changes!

Needless to say, I've started to adapt my style to it.. .and it to me
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 14th July 2010, 10:44 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_D View Post
Don't think this is a problem, if you've had the software updates that is...

Mine doesn't change up if i'm pootling, at least not till around 3k or so, unless its a completely LEVEL road and the car is accelerating anyway... if I'm off the gas and rolling (especially from a start) it won't change at all till I give it a boot or flip-shift (my term!)..... going up or down hills on part throttle also interesting as car will change down irrespective of what I want (again unless foot on gas or flip-shifting).. not too much of an issue (its for engine braking) - but there are times when I think I'm better in control as the car revs its t17$ off!!!!

I have noticed, that as I have a pretty "press on" (that's not to say FAST) driving style in it, its adapted to change up pretty late any way, the missus always thinks I'm caning it - shifts for me usually go 1,2,4,6 (if I'm dawdling around the limit at 40) but show it a clear bypass or motorway and the shifts are like 2,3,6 if I get up to 70 from around 30 or so.....

For me where the system usually fails in its "cleverness" is on a bit of road I have to negotiate almost every day... you stop at a roundabout, with a slight incline.... if you don't stop, this is pretty decent, the car will gear down a bit, then you go, and by the time your over the other side (now going DOWNHILL) it will still change... however most of the time, you have to stop at the roundabout, and when you set off, even when you get the other side on the downhill bit, you're doing 5k revs in 2nd till the car realises its going to probably kill itself or the occupants and changes!

Needless to say, I've started to adapt my style to it.. .and it to me
Thanks Dr D - does seem that mine behaves similarly to yours (perhaps the ES model is programmed differently to other models?). Am I right in thinking you're saying that the auto has inbuilt 'intelligence' to learn from your driving style? I didn't think the system on the Civic had this; I thought it was just the ECU that learnt, and adapted the fuelling/ignition; but maybe I'm wrong. I've not driven it much in auto because as you say it revs it's bits off; and once I've gone into manual mode, I tend to just leave it there.

Out of interest; is yours on an '07 plate, and if so, have you had the i-shift software update applied (I don't know whether or not mine has had this)?
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 20th July 2010, 08:26
 
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Mines an 06 plate (would have been 56 but for a few days) - had the updates done FOC (last updates were some time in 2008) made the car completely "different" when it had learned to adapt to me :P

I heard lots of things regarding "learning" - or the lack of it... it does have quite a lot of adaptive programming... there's "grade logic" - something to do with hills and descents etc... then there's static, and dynamic learning (I don't know what this is though)....

Mine's eager to change down (most times) or up but will still hold onto 2nd or 3rd on steep hills where I'm not actually prodding the gas, my downshifts whilst braking seem to be as fast as when I change down manually (literally 4,3,2 <pause> 1)... normally it would be (4 <pause> 3<pause> 2,1)
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 20th July 2010, 10:46 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dr_D View Post


Mines an 06 plate (would have been 56 but for a few days) - had the updates done FOC (last updates were some time in 2008) made the car completely "different" when it had learned to adapt to me :P

I heard lots of things regarding "learning" - or the lack of it... it does have quite a lot of adaptive programming... there's "grade logic" - something to do with hills and descents etc... then there's static, and dynamic learning (I don't know what this is though)....

Mine's eager to change down (most times) or up but will still hold onto 2nd or 3rd on steep hills where I'm not actually prodding the gas, my downshifts whilst braking seem to be as fast as when I change down manually (literally 4,3,2 <pause> 1)... normally it would be (4 <pause> 3<pause> 2,1)
Thanks Dr_D. Interesting to learn about the adaptive logic it uses. As a result of your previous comment, I have now persevered with trying mine in auto; and it's not as bad as I thought it was! As long as the car is not accelerating at all, the car will change up at about 2,300 revs - but even the very slightest acceleration causes it to hang on to the gears. I've found that by lifting the accelerator a fraction, I can control when it does change up; not what you expect to do with a full auto, but it's a quirk I can live with. My changes (in auto mode) are absolutely silky smooth - as good as any auto I've ever owned (including a couple of Jags). I'm liking this 'box more and more I think my car probably has had the software upgrades judging by the way it works in auto (ie: it seems very similar to yours), and I haven't found any problems (so far) with it hunting between 2nd and 1st when accelerating from a crawl.

Last edited by 159john; 20th July 2010 at 10:49.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 21st July 2010, 07:59
 
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Thumbs up

Glad to hear it mate... I too had to "learn" a few things, and one of them was to keep me foot where I wanted it and the car will do the rest.

It is quite difficult to judge the gas pedal - seems that the transmission electronics "dilute" response so not to overload the system? Dunno, but the response I get from the car in forward gears vs reverse is completely different.. .and its also different to prodding the gas whilst in neutral (where the engine is keener to rev - just by looking at the pedal!)

I've had my car since late May, and I love it... I blat about in auto (not quite as smooth as a jags box I think, but I did have my clutch tweaked a little as it was dragging) - if I'm on the twisties (or our Gert is asleep) then I will give her the "beans" and use manual

I find things quite relaxing, thats why I went for this car, if I'd had the cash to spend on the "newer" (i.e. std type auto) on the newer model, I am still thinking I may have swerved by the i-shift anyway.... much nicer in my opinion (and more economical!)
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 21st July 2010, 10:20 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_D View Post
Glad to hear it mate... I too had to "learn" a few things, and one of them was to keep me foot where I wanted it and the car will do the rest.

It is quite difficult to judge the gas pedal - seems that the transmission electronics "dilute" response so not to overload the system? Dunno, but the response I get from the car in forward gears vs reverse is completely different.. .and its also different to prodding the gas whilst in neutral (where the engine is keener to rev - just by looking at the pedal!)

I've had my car since late May, and I love it... I blat about in auto (not quite as smooth as a jags box I think, but I did have my clutch tweaked a little as it was dragging) - if I'm on the twisties (or our Gert is asleep) then I will give her the "beans" and use manual

I find things quite relaxing, thats why I went for this car, if I'd had the cash to spend on the "newer" (i.e. std type auto) on the newer model, I am still thinking I may have swerved by the i-shift anyway.... much nicer in my opinion (and more economical!)
Good point about the choice between i-shift and full auto.......given the choice I think I would have still gone for the i-shift over a traditional auto. The i-shift somehow seems to make the car seem more sporty to drive than a slush-matic. I'll bet a lot of other i-shift owners on here will agree. If I was clever enough to set up a poll; it would be interesting to see the proportion of i-shift owners who would still have chosen it if a full auto was also available!
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 26th July 2010, 08:09
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Well, on open roads: i-shift > full automatic
However, in city driving I'd prefer full automatic over i-shift.

As for 'learning logic'.
Unfortunately, there is none.
I have tried several times to see if it 'can' learn anything, but it's always same points of shift, etc...

However, as Dr D said, Civic does have some extra sensors - it can detect uphills and downhills. When going uphill it will hold it in gear longer, same for going downhill. Also, it will change a bit later when in corner.
But other than those things, no 'learning'.
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 27th July 2010, 21:23
 
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Well, on open roads: i-shift > full automatic
However, in city driving I'd prefer full automatic over i-shift.

As for 'learning logic'.
Unfortunately, there is none.
I have tried several times to see if it 'can' learn anything, but it's always same points of shift, etc...
The i-shift is very good on open roads, but it teases you to drive faster, so you can get a feeling that you"re driving a sporty gearbox

On the "learning part"

Well, then only thing you can do is to lease a bit the foot on the gas pedal to change gear, the shifts ( shift maps ) only depends on how depressed is the foot on the gas pedal. Mine changes gear on 4000 rpm ( when the famous noise came trought ) when i drive it regular, so not too slow, or fast
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 27th July 2010, 21:36
 
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Learning...? The dude I spoke to has been a fully paid up Honda tech for the last 25 years.. I think I know when he's lying.... I have had the upgrade to the software... the car was definately "crap" when I had it back (it wasn't too hot to start with at the time)... I do know that there is some learning, of sorts... if I go to work and drive in my "press on" style, the car will shift gear at higher revs.,... much to the detriment of my driving maybe changing to "oopsie, there's slow pokes ahead" mode - the car will still want to ignore my gentle driving....

Consequently, if I am driving as if me grandad... when I want a bit more poke, the car sometimes takes a bit to "wake up".... however, alls said, its not as bad as it was... it seemed to have a double dose of amnesia (wot gear am I in?) plus apnea (ZZZzzzzZZZZzz) lol
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 28th July 2010, 12:35 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miki_st View Post
The i-shift is very good on open roads, but it teases you to drive faster, so you can get a feeling that you"re driving a sporty gearbox

On the "learning part"

Well, then only thing you can do is to lease a bit the foot on the gas pedal to change gear, the shifts ( shift maps ) only depends on how depressed is the foot on the gas pedal. Mine changes gear on 4000 rpm ( when the famous noise came trought ) when i drive it regular, so not too slow, or fast
Totally agree with you miki_st - the car feels 'alive' and sporty in auto mode. If I'm in no hurry, I find it easier to use the paddles so that I don't have to keep adjusting my right foot to get it to change gear - no real hardship as it is like having two completely different cars all rolled into one! The more I drive it, the more I like this automated manual.
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