bad news but now good news about my Toda A3 cams - Civinfo
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post #1 of 67 (permalink) Old 24th October 2011, 13:33 Thread Starter
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bad news but now good news about my Toda A3 cams

Well, had Toda A3 cams installed this time last year and although the engine wasn't exactly noisy, I wanted to be on the safe side and get my valve clearances checked. This was duly carried out by Andrew Baird at Automek in E Kilbride who is a fantastic mechanic and has quite a lot of experience with FD2s.

After very careful checking, it was found that the exhaust cam clearances were a bit tight but generally OK, while the inlet cam clearances were not so great (some quite a lot over and some too tight). All the clearances were set to optimum but the really interesting (and a little bit scary) thing was what we observed on one of the lobes on the inlet cam:



OK, it looks a bit worse in the pic than in the flesh but the scoring/pitting clearly visible was definitely not right and suggests either a manufacturing defect or some other damage prior to installation. Weirdly, the pitting marks are on the return side of the lobe - ie not on the part of lobe under the greatest forces as the valve is opened. Also, all other 15 lobes of the inlet cam and all 16 lobes of the exhaust cam were completely pristine - impossible to detect any signs of wear whatsoever, even after 11,000 miles - what you might expect with Toda's reputation for quality.

Now the good news; TDI North installed the cams but since they came via TDI South and TDI South have been looking after the old girl these past few months, I emailed Mark at TDI South. Mark agreed that things didn't look right and he got straight onto Toda Japan. The upshot is that Toda want the cam back for analysis and are immediately air freighting a replacement to me. Meanwhile, TDI South are going to swap and set up the cams for me free of charge

They say that the real test of a company is not what happens when things go right, but how they treat you when things go wrong. So a very big thanks to Mark and the team at TDI South for being truly professional and thanks too to Toda, who obviously cares about the quality of its products!
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post #2 of 67 (permalink) Old 24th October 2011, 13:37
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Sorry to see this Andy.

However it is good to see TODA and Mark clearly looking after their customers.

How comes the valve clearances were out after 11k miles?
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post #3 of 67 (permalink) Old 24th October 2011, 13:44 Thread Starter
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Sorry to see this Andy.

However it is good to see TODA and Mark clearly looking after their customers.

How comes the valve clearances were out after 11k miles?
Hi Ash - thanks for your comments. As for the clearances, there's always a little bit of readjusting required from time to time, especially when the engine is revved hard However, the mechainc did comment that the inlet clearances seemed quite a long way out, which suggests they might not have been quite optimum when they were installed. However, there's no way of being certain about this. The main thing is they're spot on now and the issue of the damaged lobe is being sorted
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post #4 of 67 (permalink) Old 24th October 2011, 13:49
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Hi Ash - thanks for your comments. As for the clearances, there's always a little bit of readjusting required from time to time, especially when the engine is revved hard However, the mechainc did comment that the inlet clearances seemed quite a long way out, which suggests they might not have been quite optimum when they were installed. However, there's no way of being certain about this. The main thing is they're spot on now and the issue of the damaged lobe is being sorted
I see, well the main thing is no lasting damage has been done and it's being resolved without you being out of pocket.

Will TODA let you know the results of the analysis they perform on the camshaft?
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post #5 of 67 (permalink) Old 24th October 2011, 14:13
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Porn = Ruined! LOL!

Great news though, Toda sound ace! Im sure that Mugen would bend over backward for their customers too , not like some of the "replica" companies/people out there

Possible over-rev or miss-shift in the past? wierd problem!
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post #6 of 67 (permalink) Old 24th October 2011, 14:18
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Wow thats good news!!but scary seeing that pic!!lol
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post #7 of 67 (permalink) Old 24th October 2011, 14:25 Thread Starter
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Well, hopefully we'll know before too long what Toda discover when they carry out an analysis. As I said, in the pic it looks worse than it actually is when you see it in the flesh. Obviously, not right though!

Guitar - I'm not sure it's to do with an over-rev or misshift because all of the other 31 lobes are pristine and only one shows this pitting
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post #8 of 67 (permalink) Old 24th October 2011, 14:26
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Glad Andy got it sorted for you! I use Andy a lot he's really really good, your car was probably in when I've been up!
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post #9 of 67 (permalink) Old 24th October 2011, 14:29 Thread Starter
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Hi DPG - Yep, Andrew is extremely thorough. Was up there last Tuesday pm. Don't think you were there But hopefully get to meet you at TDI North on 5th
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post #10 of 67 (permalink) Old 24th October 2011, 14:38
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Hi DPG - Yep, Andrew is extremely thorough. Was up there last Tuesday pm. Don't think you were there But hopefully get to meet you at TDI North on 5th
Yeh be good to put a name to the face, agree Andrew is extremely thorough and careful his work is sublime!

Yeh I don't think I was up last Tuesday think it was Monday and Wednesday I was up last week! Car is in just now gettin the RRC ported

How come you were up our way?
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post #11 of 67 (permalink) Old 24th October 2011, 16:54 Thread Starter
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I live just over the border near Carlisle, so your neck of the woods isn't that far from me. Plus Andrew's work came highly recommended from friends on the FD2 owners forum. Will deffo use him again

Is Andrew doing your porting?
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post #12 of 67 (permalink) Old 24th October 2011, 17:18
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Where does that lobe get its oil from, its been known for such as gasket glue ect to get in the oilways and cause a restriction.

Good to see the people around you are willing to fix the problem and not just try to palm it off to somone else.

Last edited by Terry H; 24th October 2011 at 17:21.
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post #13 of 67 (permalink) Old 24th October 2011, 17:49 Thread Starter
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Where does that lobe get its oil from, its been known for such as gasket glue ect to get in the oilways and cause a restriction.

Good to see the people around you are willing to fix the problem and not just try to palm it off to somone else.
Hi Terry - oil supply to that lobe - not sure. It's an interesting point. I guess TDI will check that out when they swap cams. However, what's odd is that this lobe is so pitted when the one next to it is pristine. If it was oil starvation, you might expect to see some signs in the adjacent lobe.

As you say, great service from TDI and Toda that they are willing to sort it so promptly
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post #14 of 67 (permalink) Old 24th October 2011, 17:57
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Glad to hear your being looked after LT.

Just my 2p I dont think its anything in the car as the damage would happen along the way it travelled if you get me, That looks like damage across the cam like it has been hit with a tool or dropped prior to installation. Who knows :S
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post #15 of 67 (permalink) Old 24th October 2011, 18:09 Thread Starter
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Hi Stoney - yep, it's all very mysterious. I am going to request a copy of the engineering report from Toda. Regarding the possibility of damage by a tool or dropping prior to installation, I wouldn't like to speculate on that without seeing what the engineering report says first as it might open a whole new can of worms...
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post #16 of 67 (permalink) Old 24th October 2011, 19:10
 
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from my experience with toda cams (more than 4 sets in my personal cars and many miles covered) , that has nothing to do with toda quality , if it was junk or bp , i d accept it beeing a bad core , that is probably a lubrication-oiling issue , although i cant prove or justify that , just a belief that toda quality control is flawless(based on every product i ve bought or dealt with from toda)

try using higher zinc ols and motorkote

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post #17 of 67 (permalink) Old 24th October 2011, 19:48
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Yeh Andrew's doing it today yeh, I've never had any issues with Andrew or his work, he's always really helpful and really friendly and on a Saturday it's like a mini japfest over at the garage lol
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post #18 of 67 (permalink) Old 24th October 2011, 20:34 Thread Starter
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from my experience with toda cams (more than 4 sets in my personal cars and many miles covered) , that has nothing to do with toda quality , if it was junk or bp , i d accept it beeing a bad core , that is probably a lubrication-oiling issue , although i cant prove or justify that , just a belief that toda quality control is flawless(based on every product i ve bought or dealt with from toda)

try using higher zinc ols and motorkote
Cheers ef9 - I know how well regarded Toda is for quality so it will be interesting to try and find the cause. Personally, I doubt also that it is due to a faulty core
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post #19 of 67 (permalink) Old 25th October 2011, 00:35
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Cheers ef9 - I know how well regarded Toda is for quality so it will be interesting to try and find the cause. Personally, I doubt also that it is due to a faulty core
Andy, excuse my ignorance. I heard mw1978 say once he got some cams from America that had a "faulty core", and now you and ef9 are saying it. What does that mean? The material that was used to create the camshaft was faulty? If so how?
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post #20 of 67 (permalink) Old 25th October 2011, 10:25 Thread Starter
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I'm no expert Ash but I believe that the core simply refers to the original metal rod out of which the cams are machined. If the core contains any fractures, dislocations or gross impurities, it stands to reason that there could be parts of the camshaft that have less structural integrity as a result.
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