Aircon - does no gas stop system truning on? - Civinfo
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 20th July 2019, 17:32 Thread Starter
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Aircon - does no gas stop system turning on?

Howdy


If the aircon system is out of gas will it not engage the aircon compresssor?
I certain it's out of gas and have replaced the relay as it was dead.
I can get the compressor to engage if I remove the relay and jump to the connections (only do it for a few seconds)


Cheers

Last edited by goldstar0011; 20th July 2019 at 17:57.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 20th July 2019, 21:42
 
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There is a pressure switch which will cut the compressor if its low on gas. If its low on gas it has probably leaked out. If its leaked out there is no point in regassing until the leak is found and fixed. What year is it? If you get down low and peer through the bottom grille with a torch you will see the condenser. How is it looking?
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 21st July 2019, 14:09 Thread Starter
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Years 2008, the condensor looking ok.


Any thing I can do myself checking for leaks?
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 21st July 2019, 14:28
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If you get it refilled then ask them to put UV dye in it. That way, if there is a leak, it shows up like dog's danglies under UV light.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 21st July 2019, 17:37
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they are supposed to do a pressure test before refilling
main reason being the gas is harmfull to atmosphere so should test before just filling up to escape into atmosphere
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 21st July 2019, 17:37
 
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The condenser is the most vulnerable and most likely point of leakage and it will almost certainly be impossible to "see" any leakage .
Mine is a 2009 and i just had a new condenser. When i stripped the front of the car you could see structural failures ie short rows of fins parting company with the refrigerant carrying horizontal microtubes etc. Car aircon services of manchester is your guru. He does a diagnostic visit for around 35.

I may be wrong but i think pressure testing is of limited use if its only a small leak. The guages used, which i think will be bourdon guages, will not likely be able to discriminate a small leak at the test pressures used and the test time period.

It would be more useful to use a lower pressure and a water manometer or a digital pressure guage with a lower range.

When i had mine diagnosed there was indeed no leakage indicated on the standard test and it was really down to experience and visual checks of the condenser which looked goosed,ergo it was the likely source of leakage.
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Last edited by dooper; 21st July 2019 at 17:42.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 21st July 2019, 18:11
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you are correct small leaks don't always show on pressure test
that's why they add dye which does show up when it leaks
if you can spot it
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 21st July 2019, 19:07
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A proper pressure test (with high-pressure nitrogen) is rarely performed, instead they assume that if the vacuum used to 'boil off' the remaining refrigerant and contaminants appears to hold then the system is leak-free... this is unreliable, as the vacuum actually pulls down the o-ring seals and hides any leaks at those places. Plus most places want to sell you a refill, not tell you they can't do it!

I'd always get UV dye put in during a refill so, as said, any future leak site will become really obvious. Might be worth using a decent UV lamp and having a look now, as a lot of places already add the dye as standard practice.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 21st July 2019, 19:10
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Good thinking Jon.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 21st July 2019, 19:29
 
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All good advice above, especially from Jon-G but I have a few things to add.
Legal Stuff, Oh I know what you're thinking but as I am licenced by DEFRA to work on automotive air con systems I have to take note of it!
If any system I work on has less than 50% of it's normal charge (by weight) of gas in it then before recharging I must pressure test the system using Oxygen-free Nitrogen at 150psi. It must hold that pressure without change for at least half an hour before I can consider it to be leak free. BUT, sometimes, not often but sometimes, a leak can be so tiny it won't show up which is when the dye in the refrigerant part comes in.
In general at 150psi you can hear a leak and track it down that way, with a stethoscope. But despite the legal aspect if you have a leak then there is no point just recharging it anyway because you'll be back to square one in a week or so.
All the other comments are correct. No gas pressure and there is a sensor which will stop the compressor running. That's to save the compressor from running unlubricated, don't forget there is oil in the system as well as gas which can/will leak out!
Condensers are the commonest source of leaks because they are in such a vulnerable position, they have to be to get the airflow through them. But there are other possible places so don't change a condenser, or anything for that matter, without proof it's leaking.
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 21st July 2019, 23:34
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Great post Peter. It's nice to hear 'the gen' on A/C 'from the horses mouth' so to speak.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 22nd July 2019, 08:18 Thread Starter
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Awesome help everyone
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 22nd July 2019, 17:42
 
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I think i still have a photo of my condenser when it came off my 2009 civic 8th. As yours is a similar age you may see the same defects on yours though i dont think the full condenser frontage is visible via the lower grille..ill see if i can remember how to upload it..

here https://flic.kr/p/2gufPj6
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Last edited by dooper; 22nd July 2019 at 20:54.
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