Possibility of repaired car before sale? - Civinfo
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 10th August 2012, 09:11 Thread Starter
 
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Unhappy Possibility of repaired car before sale?

Hi guys,

yesterday after having my rear left door resprayed due to accident, I went to my detailer guy to book an appointment to have it washed and newly painted panels also waxed...

Well long story short, he said that he's 99% positive that front left door were resprayed at some time as well. He based that on lots of dust particles he found embedded clear coat and also that "orange peel" on both left side doors matched and was more prominent to rest of the panels.

After that one small thing I found out before started making sense, i.e. different manufacture date on front left door window. This window indicates that it was manufactured in 2011, but the rest of the windows indicate manufacture date of 2012. Only times I saw that with cars is after accident repair...

So straight away I went to dealership, where I only managed to find mechanic that I received my car from. He refused any chance that the front left door was resprayed. Though he looked somewhat puzzled when I showed him the window thing. I've also called with a sales lady who sold me the car, but she didn't know about any repairs done on front left door done at dealership. She suggested that there MIGHT have been repairs done at central depot in Belgium...

So my plan for next few days is to find out someone who own a paint thickness gauge and have both door measured and compare the paint thickness to rest of the panels.
I've already sent an email to main importer in my country asking about this issue and whether they can provide any information.

Do you reckon should my next steps be if I find out that the front left door was in fact resprayed and glass replaced before I bought the car.
I'm definitely considering withdrawing from contract if there are any problems found.

Few important details:
-> car was bought on 25th of May in Slovakia as a demonstration car (which I still consider as new car) with 700km on clock
-> it was sold to me without mention of any previous repairs done

Last edited by drzoidy; 10th August 2012 at 09:33.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 10th August 2012, 10:03
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i think the law is if you did not ask if the car has been in any accident of purchase the dealer does not have to reveal this to you. its up to you to ask the question

at this moment in time according to your story the dealer has effectively has not lied to you as you did not ask the question whether if the car had been in an accident

it also could be normal for the windows to ddisplay different dates because it could have been end of current batch. id shake the door check for rattles of bits of smashed glass. as a smashed window bits get every where into corners and they are a bugger to clean all glass out because it shatters into minute small bits .

Last edited by cv65user; 10th August 2012 at 10:07.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 10th August 2012, 10:06
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Originally Posted by cv65user View Post
i think the law is if you did not ask if the car has been in any accident of purchase the dealer does not have to reveal this to you. its up to you to ask the question
Possibly different laws in Slovakia.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 10th August 2012, 10:57 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cv65user View Post
i think the law is if you did not ask if the car has been in any accident of purchase the dealer does not have to reveal this to you. its up to you to ask the question
This might be correct when you buy used, but once you buy new from dealership it doesn't make sense to ask if it's been in accident. At least that's what I always thought...

But the dealer just mailed me that to let me know that they currently servicing another 9G Civic, which should be in use for a month, and that both of it's front side windows are marked as 2011 ones and rest of the windows as 2012... Guess now only thing left to check is the paint thickness...
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 10th August 2012, 12:39
 
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1 A demonstrator is not a new factory fresh car.

2 A new car may have had some rectification work undertaken, eg minor damage from delivery transporter, etc. Such would not need notification to the purchaser, who is responsible for examining it at the time of completion of sale transaction.

3 As always, "caveat emptor."-----customers, expectations of quality often exceed the demands of the law!
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 10th August 2012, 20:31 Thread Starter
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Well I've got an update to this.
I went to pretty big used car dealer in town and asked them if they have paint thickness gauge, which they obviously had. I've explained to them my situation and the owner was nice enough to go out and do maybe 50-60 measurements on my car and had a thorough look at the front left door.

So here's are the paint results (in micrometers):
roof 80-100
right side doors: 120-150
boot door, hood: 100-130
A pillar, C pillar: 100-120
front left door (the supposedly unpainted one): 250-300
rear left door (freshly painted): 250-350 and in some places from 500 to over 800!!!


What surprised me was that the used car salesman told me that the front left door was definitely painted even before he did any measurements!
And he also said that it doesn't look like a best job...

Yea and what he had to say to that side window with different manufactured date, was that it wasn't installed in factory, because it's highly improbable that only one window on a car would be different. If both front side windows were were same, that would mean they might have been installed at factory.

Well either this Tuesday they will see me at dealership so they can investigate it under warranty. But trust me, that I'll do whatever I can to either get a new car or get my money back, but there's no way I'm taking THIS car back!
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 18th August 2012, 18:11
 
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You bought a 2nd hand car with 700km, so it's a 2nd hand and no way Honda will give you a new one since you already had a pretty sweet deal I guess since it is an ex-demo, or did you pay the same price as a new one for it?
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 22nd August 2012, 10:51
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Honda1 is right. The car you bought is an ex-demonstrator and therefore not new.

The dealership was an owner and driver (albeit it let many other drivers drive).

Provided its fit for its purpose and of satisfactory quality and wasn't sold to you as new but as a demonstrator, I'd say you have no comeback, at least in the UK. If you could find a paint problem through the repair that was obvious or affected fitness for a particular purpose eg fitment of a roof rack, then the position might be different as you'd possibly have an argument under quality laws.

It doesn't sound like that's the case here as you can't spot the difference, it took a dealer with a professional eye to spot the repair.

However, your laws might be different. It might also be different if the car was sold by description which misled eg In New Condition.

If it was new, the situation would be different again as with that level of repair, I'd differ from Honda1 in saying that any damage requiring repair on a new car as opposed to a simple polish, would render it not new, even if it was delivery damage. I think there is an expectation that a new car is delivered in an unrepaired state

At a guess, on your vehicle, if both left doors are painted, I'd say it was probably side swiped either against another vehicle or an inanimate object such as a gate post. So I'm guessing there's probably some filler in there as well.

Last edited by RA108; 22nd August 2012 at 10:54.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 24th August 2012, 19:50 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ictd View Post
You bought a 2nd hand car with 700km, so it's a 2nd hand and no way Honda will give you a new one since you already had a pretty sweet deal I guess since it is an ex-demo, or did you pay the same price as a new one for it?
It was only 300 euro less than a brand new one, but the new one was in that bright yellow which immediately put me off.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 24th August 2012, 20:05 Thread Starter
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Honda1 is right. The car you bought is an ex-demonstrator and therefore not new.

The dealership was an owner and driver (albeit it let many other drivers drive).

Provided its fit for its purpose and of satisfactory quality and wasn't sold to you as new but as a demonstrator, I'd say you have no comeback, at least in the UK. If you could find a paint problem through the repair that was obvious or affected fitness for a particular purpose eg fitment of a roof rack, then the position might be different as you'd possibly have an argument under quality laws.

It doesn't sound like that's the case here as you can't spot the difference, it took a dealer with a professional eye to spot the repair.

However, your laws might be different. It might also be different if the car was sold by description which misled eg In New Condition.

If it was new, the situation would be different again as with that level of repair, I'd differ from Honda1 in saying that any damage requiring repair on a new car as opposed to a simple polish, would render it not new, even if it was delivery damage. I think there is an expectation that a new car is delivered in an unrepaired state

At a guess, on your vehicle, if both left doors are painted, I'd say it was probably side swiped either against another vehicle or an inanimate object such as a gate post. So I'm guessing there's probably some filler in there as well.
Actually dealer haven't been the previous owner. Car was on transferable plates, which are assigned to dealer not to a car. Therefore I am the first owner.

And in the papers it says I bought it with 3km on clock as this way I wouldn't have to go and have car checked by police officer, who to be honest, just checks the VIN in the papers and compares it to VIN on chasis.

Since I was on holiday this week, I haven't moved anywhere with this. But fortunately today I found some time to meet with my solicitor, who advices to have it inspected by an officially appointed expert. I've contacted the guy he usually works with and I'll be meeting with him next Thursday.
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